Officers' Quarters: My pre-Wrath rant

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
Bleak is the word I would use to describe the current situation for raiding guilds. For many guilds, activity and recruitment are at all-time lows. It's becoming harder and harder to cobble together enough people to run anything these days. Must we simply endure? Is there no hope for us until Wrath launches? Will we officers respond to this crisis with moral fortitude -- or weakness? Will I actually use boldface to call out our officer community on their behavior? Find out after the break! But first, the author of this week's e-mail relates his own guild's experiences.
Hi Scott,
My name is Dmitry. [My guild is] a casual raiding guild made up mostly of people over 20, who either go to school, or work, or both, many of whom have kids. This is all taken into account and we have a very strong RL-before-WoW stance.
Unfortunately the past month or two has been really hard for us. Our MT was gone for 3 weeks because of a new job, lots of people went on vacation because of the summer, others stopped playing as much to spend more time with their kids, etc. After having guild firsts on Mag, Hydross, and Lurker in 3 weeks in June our guild has started to go backwards, having trouble taking down Gruul some nights.
Because of this many people have left for other hardcore guilds but left alts in our guild. We tried getting new recruits, but as soon as they got their T4 shoulders and pants for minimal or 0 DKP (since no one else needed them) they gquit for other guild which had better progression.
Slowly but surely we are becoming a friendly alt guild that has trouble getting more than 1 Kara group going.
How do we go about recruiting people that aren't fresh 70s, that will understand that come late August we'll be up and running and should be able to clear SSC and TK within a month as long as people sign up for raids and actually show up?
Thanks,
Dmitry
I have good news and bad news for you, Dmitry. The bad news is that you're going to have a tough time recruiting unless you can actually make some raids happen. Players with raiding experience won't join a guild that isn't raiding, unless they've given up on raiding for the time being -- and if so they won't be any help to you.
The good news (for you at least) is that even hardcore raiding guilds are having trouble filling their raids in some cases. They are able to recruit based on their progress, but many of their best and brightest have decided farming gear from zones they've seen a hundred times isn't enough to keep them playing until the expansion. Their members who were raiding Black Temple when it first opened, who have seen the Sunwell and decided they've seen enough of it, are just going inactive to PvP or level alts, or quitting the game altogether for a few months.
So for hardcore guilds, turnover can be very high right now. That means those zones they've had on farm may not be on farm anymore. The frustration of that reality can cause even more of their best members to hang up the sword or the wand for a while.
Some of those players who left your casual raiding guild may quickly find themselves begging you to let them return when they encounter the same problems they had before in a much less friendly environment than the one they left behind. So you'll have to decide whether or not you want to take them back.
However -- is this poaching and reverse poaching, this guild cannibalism, really getting anybody anywhere these days? It seems to me that all it's doing is creating a lot of hard feelings and not a lot of successful raiding environments.
So what I propose, to all the officers out there running raiding guilds, however serious or casual you happen to be, is this: Stop stealing players from each other and work together.
Times are tough for all of us. Let's make it easier on each other, rather than harder. Think about it: Loot is virtually meaningless right now. The people who are actively raiding at this point in Warcraft's life cycle are doing it first and foremost because they like raiding. They have fun raiding and want to keep doing it, regardless of any rewards. So instead of recruiting from another guild's roster, why not work together with that guild?
Stop making enemies and start forming alliances. Let's all get back to the basics of raiding, which is bringing players together to see content and enjoy it. That is my advice for Dmitry and for any other guilds out there faced with a slowdown or a complete stoppage in their raiding schedules.
The enemies that your guild makes now will in all likelihood continue to be your enemies in the future. But the friends that your guild makes now will probably be your friends in the future, and that may prove valuable down the road. So what is better for your members? What is better for the community?
I'm not ranting about this because I'm bitter -- just the opposite. I'm writing this because it's working for my guild, and I want to see it work for yours, too.
If you are not an officer in your guild, think about this before you decide to gquit. If you like your guild but it's going nowhere, before you give up on it, push your officers to start reaching out to other guilds on your server. Odds are that guild you're sizing up to join is also struggling in some way. You may end up in the same position you've tried to escape, except you've burned some bridges in the process.
Officers, before you accept a whole slew of applicants from another guild, think about the long term. Do you want to keep these players, with all their needs and issues, throughout the expansion? Or are you just using them to plug some holes in the dam before your serious raiders return?
Wouldn't it be better to partner up with that guild instead? You'll have access to all those players and more, but you won't have to deal with the baggage that would come from assimilating them into your membership (or, even worse, potentially telling them down the line that there's no place for them in your Wrath raids).
How a community responds to hardship defines that community. Will we get all Lord of the Flies on each other? Or will we lift each other out of the raiding gutter we're in and move forward together? As officers, we are the leaders of this online community, so no matter what the raiding community does, it reflects on us first and foremost. Keep that in mind as the agonizing wait for Wrath drags on!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 2)
Eternalpayn Aug 4th 2008 1:30PM
Why not recruit fresh 70s? If you're having trouble downing Gruul, and recruiting, that may be the solution. Sure, you'll have to gear them up for Kara, and then gear them up in Kara, but it may be a better solution than just sitting in trade chat recruiting. Plus these people won't /gquit and leave an alt in, they'll stick with you. If they're progressing, they'll be happy. Try it, see if it works out.
briker Aug 4th 2008 1:34PM
My guild was having the same problem - school, family, stuck on progression caused difficulty in getting a 25 man group together. We tried switching to 2 nights a week to make it easier for people to attend, but that didn't work. Finally, our guild leader approached a few other guilds on the server to form a coalition. We created the /coalition channel for chat, and put out some basic rules.
1)No poaching from guilds participating the coalition allowed.
2)Those who were most prepared (consumables, gear, on time, etc) would most likely be selected for that's night raid.
3)Gear/specs would be checked. Don't come pvp spec'd for a pve encounter.
4)No crying/qq/whining. No ranting about performances of other raid members. Constructive criticisms, privately, to raid members are welcome.
5)Loot is based on need, to be determined by raid leaders. Link your current peice to them during a roll, if it's a better upgrade, you can roll - main spec only though. Off-spec rolls only if no one else needs.
6)Performance afterwards will be evaluated. If you aren't up to the task, cause constant wipes because you didn't read or listen to the strats, or seem to be in it just for the gear, you will be replaced.
So far, things have gone fairly well. Been doing a combination of T5/T6 runs. We have about 8 guilds on tap through the coalition channel. It has also helped significantly as a basic LFG channel for ZA/Kara/heroics, etc.
It also functions to help out some of the smaller guilds get involved with larger raids, and educates them on the finer points of successful raiding.
I think it will last us until the expansion. Hopefully, we can make it into Sunwell, and still have a good rotation of players.
Drkstrider Aug 4th 2008 2:12PM
See, I am a shadow priest on dentarg (Drkstrider) and I went for about 10 lvls (6-70) without a guild. People are always tell me to join, so they can do instances and raids, but no one has offer to take the time and help me to get geared up properly. I get switch your spec to holy and then I thought about all my adventuring and grinding the spriest to 70 and I say screw em. I quit caring after I was halfway to an instance and was told...oh you are not geared properly and they booted me out of the group in mid flight. no more communication after the invite. I have been call "gay" for not accepting invites from strangers. I guess what I am trying to say is that talk to the people in your guild and make them feel wanted or feel that they are a part of a team. Also understand that people will drop off from time to time to take care of RL. The more compassion you show, the stronger your guild will be.
Zamboni Aug 4th 2008 6:04PM
I had the same issues and ended up basically dropping out of raiding. My last guild essentially disintegrated halfway through Kara, and it's been impossible to progress since then. Guilds complain about needing more people but then reject anyone who doesn't outgear the content.
Kelly Aug 4th 2008 2:37PM
I have seen many of this post.. I feel very dissapointed.. I think Peeps are taking advantage of friendships.. Like you said Why recruit new members if when Wrath comes you will have your old raiders Back.. Well I wish they did not come back.. They were not honorable enough to stay when things got tuff well to hell with them and recruit players that enjoy the game at all times.. I am sure there are Peeps that want to raid and see most BC completed.. SO those that want to enjoy Summer and feel bored or burned out please gquit so you stop wasting the time of the ones that want to finish..
Rob Aug 4th 2008 4:04PM
I sympathise with this and agree partially, but the other side of the coin is that RL should have precidence over WOW. If people are doing something productive this summer, more power to them. Of course things will be awkward in the guild when some of these come back for the fall. We'll see how it shakes out.
In our BT progressing guild, we tend to have a cycle of people, its about one every week it feels like. We're one of the most progressed on the server, so we do get alot of apps. The rules are pretty simple for guild openings. When the raid doesn't fill up, app openings get posted. So if you want to raid, sign up for all raids.
We haven't gotten to the point where we need a formal system to deal with too many people, but usually if there are more than 25 people that signed up we'll rotate through. I think the key is that we are raiding T5/T6 stuff regularly, so alot of people want to be in on those raids, even progression nights (we are learning the tough BT bosses and the final boss from the other 3 T5/T6 raids). I think when you stop rolling through easy bosses then raid attendance becomes problematic, and I know it costs a ton to do progression. However, I gave 5k gold to the guild to help with progress (I am not a GL or officer, and others have chipped in consumables, etc. The guild wants to make this happen, not the officers. We want to see the bosses down, that's what raiding is all about. Esp with Vaj and Kael, their loot isn't even upgrades at this point. Its all about downing the boss and bragging rights.
Soatari Aug 4th 2008 6:30PM
our guild on Kilrogg formed an alliance with three other guilds. Alone, each of the guilds didn't have the members to push through 25 mans, but together we've pushed from Gruul all the way to Hyjal in just a few months.
We set up the relations, talked things through (about loot, raid times, etc. Note: THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT), and created a channel for all the members to use for inter-guild discussions.
Eisengel Aug 5th 2008 12:29AM
I've been playing WoW for a while, and it seems to me that the shelf life of a guild is about 2 to 3 months once things get going. During that time everyone will be happy with the 'new start' and will have lots of fun meeting new people and will be happy to do things 'for the guild'. People will run instances, raid, all kinds of stuff. After about a month though the people at the lead of the runs start outgearing the content and it gets very easy. They start to get a little bored and do other things, or try to push on to new content while there are at least 2 or 3 groups that need to run the current content level. At this point runs start to thin out and it becomes harder for the less progressed players to break into the content the leading members have already gone through for crucial upgrades. At this point new members will find themselves left out quite often as the best geared players will only want to hit high content the and the mid-geared players snap up the highly geared players whenever they can to get a run. People start losing any sense of community and cliques form... usually amoung raiding groups (since they've been together so long now).
At this point some of the high-level raiders will start to burn out, raiding with the same people all the time, and then being constantly badgered, cajoled and cursed at by a large amount of mid- and low-geared guildies trying to get them to run stuff or help with group quests. Usually a critical raid role (tank, healer) will either quit, stop running anything (which gets them crap from everyone, so they still quit), or switch to an alt (who now can't run anything, being in the low-level gear band, so they get more annoyed, or their high-geared buddies run them and everyone cries 'foul'). At this point the best players get kind of grumpy, try to keep raiding, and the mid-level players throw up their hands, tired of being ignored and the drama and start leaving as the bad blood starts flowing. Low level players will start to trickle out when they see people leaving.
Usually at this point things are pretty much over... about 1/4 of the high-geared players will leave to join other guilds or try to form their own, the mid-level players left will be jaded and peevish or entirely disinterested, and the low-level players will usually be alts.
I've seen this happen more or less the same way again, and again, and again, and again.... etc. There are usually other things thrown in, loot drama, RL problems, friends joining and getting special treatment, promotion of people who abuse their power... but in general this seems to always be the trend.
Are there guilds out there that have lasted? Yup. Are there new guilds forming now that will be the super long-lasting guilds of tomorrow? Sure... however I'd be willing to lay odds that at least 50% to 75% of new guilds will be unable to run anything or will fold completely in about 6 to 8 months.
Pyre Aug 5th 2008 3:51AM
I find myself incredibly fortunate to have joined a guild that in the last 3 months has gone from kara to 3/4 TK, 4/6 SSC, 3/5 MH with 4 solid raids a week and a full sitout grp ready and waiting, sure we've had some turn over in that time, but the good solid ones stick around.
Keep at it and keep recruiting, there are som gems out there that jsut need a little instruction to make them good raiders, no matter the gear.
Its highly fustrating to be looking for a guild if leaders are complete elitists when it comes to must have full epics.
Skill, Patience, and Determination *always* wins over gear
Charlie Aug 5th 2008 7:42AM
This happens every year around august.
Every single year, during august, raids are hard to come by. Its eazily the #1 hardest time during a year to get a raid together.
Just gotta tough it out. It stinks, but things pick back up. It just is rough since wrath is coming out so (relatively) soon. That only adds to your problems.
I guess you can take comfort in the fact that everyone is going through what your going through this time of year?
Anyways, just babbling, good luck Dmitri