Death Knight tanking undergoing tweaks
The latest announced changes for Death Knights are out, and this time, they seem to be mostly concerned with tanking. There's two major philosophies that Blizzard seems to following for Death Knights: First, any tree should be able to excel at tanking at least to the 5-man level, and Death Knight tanking should be at least somewhat interactive.
In that vein, they're introducing two revamped late tree tanking talents to the mix. In Frost, Unbreakable Armor will be a usable ability that costs 1 frost rune, but will only increase armor by 25% and Strength by 5%. In Blood, Vampiric Blood (previously mentioned in last week's Lichborne) will be a 1 blood rune ability that increases healing received from all sources by 50%. Both abilities will not trigger the GCD, will last 20 seconds, and will have a 2 minute cooldown. Blizzard aims to balance these 2 abilities with Bone Armor (which will have an internal cooldown of 3.5 seconds, like Shaman shields) to create 3 viable late tree tanking abilities.
The previous version of these spells had them auto-trigger upon depletion of certain runes. Most Death Knights felt this made them have to artificially hold back on abilities or muck up damage rotations simply to save the abilities for when they were needed. Having them usable should, of course, clear that up, though there's some argument now as to whether the nerf they took in the process was too harsh.
In other news, They're looking at firming up other passive tanking abilities as well. Deep Unholy, they say, may need an additional passive tanking talent to match Will of the Necropolis and Acclimation. Anti-Magic Shell will also be getting some buffs. It will be made non-dispellable at the least, and may include immunity to DoTs and magical debuffs. Unholy's tanking ability has somewhat suffered from the removal of Lichborne to the Frost tree, so it'll be nice to see it get some extra utility.
There's some concern over Frigid Dreadplate at the moment, as the 50% slow will not work on most boss mobs. Of course, 50% is a bit steep for a boss mob, so it's understandable, in my mind. It will stack with Thunder Clap on regular mobs though, which does mean at the least that Frost Death Knights have some nice synergy with warriors in 5-mans.
There's also some concerns about Bone Armor and the Unholy tree from some quarters. While Bone Armor, thanks in part to a shorter cooldown, does seem to have superior mitigation against a single target, Unholy also seems to be the AOE damage and tanking tree, with abilities that strengthen Death and Decay and Blood Boil as well as extra abilities such as Unholy Blight and Corpse Explosion. However, since Bone Armor only has 4 charges, they could concievably be used up very quickly in a multi-mob situation. Hopefully, the new longer internal cooldown may help that bit, as could the possible new late Unholy tanking talent.
Most of these changes will be coming with the next build, so we'll be able to test them then and see how they work off paper and out in "real" tanking situations. Right now, it might be nice to see a little bit more base mitigation ability, although having Toughness and Anticipation and Blade Barrier in the first tier of each tree may help a Death Knight tank a bit on that end.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding, Death Knight, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
tanner32k Aug 7th 2008 7:41AM
The problem I see with having all trees viable for tanking is that non tanks might complain about the DK.
non-tank:"Hey you are a DK you can tank"
DK:"But I do not like tanking"
non-tank:"Then why did you roll a tank class"
ANeM Aug 7th 2008 9:03AM
Uh, we already have that problem with feral druids.. and its not even non-tanks that get annoyed at them.
I play a paladin, I've played all specs at 70, I'm decently geared and actually try to pug stuff, though it usually ends badly..
I've had 5mans where I'm holy where a feral druid who I know has the gear to tank the instance decides they'd rather dps and make the group spend an extra 30 minutes dicking around waiting for a tank.
Then there are the 25mans where I'm prot but we need someone to offtank on trash, but the feral druid wants to dps. So we all get to wipe because I got stunned and there was just a little too much on me and I die and stuff gets lose and we wipe and then the whole raid falls apart because no one wants to be in a pug raid that wipes on trash.
and for what? Because the one class that can switch between simple tanking roles and dps without spending upwards of 100g doesn't FEEL like tanking?
Personally, I'd kill for that ability, and to me.. anyone that might complain when DKs and feral druids are not pulling their weight.. If you ask me its completely justified.
When there is another tank available its fine if you want to DPS, but when it comes down to deciding between making the group pick up one of 10 dps and just going or waiting anywhere from 10 to 60 minutes to find another tank.. If you've got the gear, and its not hard to get it, just tank the damn thing.
tanner32k Aug 7th 2008 11:09AM
I can completely understand. I guess I am a little lucky in that I have a paladin, warrior and priest to choose from depending on what I feel like doing haha
Cameron Aug 6th 2008 3:38PM
So they nerf feral druid dps because it isn't fair to warriors... but deathknights get to tank and DPS in any tree at the same time no gear changes?
Bow to the will of the death knight now because Blizzard plans on making them over powered.
TriggerHappy Aug 6th 2008 3:44PM
The article didn't mention anything about not needing gear changes or how tank DPS is. It's entirely possible that Death Knight tanking will require so many talent points that DPS suffers, and/or that it requires tanking specific gear.
It's entirely too early to QQ about Death Knight tank DPS.
dpoyesac Aug 6th 2008 4:00PM
The plan for ferals is to have the tree viable for tanking or DPS, but not necessarily at the same time. Same thing with DKs: any DK tree can tank or DPS, but no specific build will excel at BOTH jobs at the same time.
Cameron Aug 6th 2008 4:30PM
Most of my concern comes from what I've heard from my friends in the beta(i wasn't lucky enough) Death knights are currently over-powered. To quote them: "Burst like a frost mage, sustained damage of a rogue, tank like a warrior, and heal themselves for as much a healer"
I'm not sure how true these are, but I definitely consider these people very reliable resources. When it comes down to it I guess we will see when it comes out.
Kaphik Aug 6th 2008 4:43PM
Blood is the dedicated DPS tree from my experiences playing so far.
And, if you will read back to everything said about tanking in the expansion, ALL tanks will have their DPS increased beyond what it is currently. The druid problem isn't going to be DPS, it's going to be itemization.
gareth Aug 7th 2008 5:53AM
Cameron, that's exactly what I'm worry they will be here, my suspicion is since they are the shiny new character on the block they'll be getting a lot of love so will be overpowered.
I'll have to wait and see, since things are dead at the moment since the guild can't even get enough I'm getting deep into old EQ2, so far it feels more traditional fantasy, if when WotLK comes out my warrior tank is second rate I think he'll go into permanent retirement, I really have no interest in grinding through the solo fest levels of WoW again to pick a new main.
I'm hoping here that WaR delivers the PVP fix that a protection warrior/shadow priest/affliction warlock in BG's failed to deliver.
(And yep - those are all three of my alts and I'm not grinding for 50g a time to pay to respec to a completely different spec in BG's just to PVP since I think its retarded game design that two DPS spec's can't pvp thanks to the resilience/dot nerfing).
Clasifyd Aug 6th 2008 3:40PM
Maybe it's complete ignorance on my part, but I can't really understand how the DK's talents make it a 'viable' tank. It seems to me that the majority of their 'tanking' talents just seem to slow enemy attack speeds (though I really can't discount the value in that). I understand there's Toughness and a few other mitigation type talents, but there seems to be a lack of avoidance stats in a serious sense.
Am I missing something? If so, can someone please explain it to me?
In an unrelated note, I think Shadow of Death is one of the coolest talents to date. When you return as a Ghoul, do you have a set amount of health, or does the DK just persist for another 45 seconds?
Kaphik Aug 6th 2008 4:46PM
Death Knights have an ability like the Paladin's Righteous Fury. When the DK activates their Frost Presence, the threat generated by them is increased by 40% I believe, I haven't activated it yet. =O
Lichcow Aug 18th 2008 1:02PM
Okay, this is just a note for all you druids, paladins, warriors. i've got a druid and a pally tanks ( might i say there awsome ) and i've tanked almost every raid. The DK class will have advantage that if you go all into a single spec you can tank 5 mans and also ( with a gear switch ) DPS as well. however if a DK decided to tank a raid it would have to go into a specific spec which covers 3 tree's and only grabs the tanking talents. and even then they are probably going to a little bit weaker. because you've got a single spec with all tank talents and DK's have to miss tanking talents because there are not enough points to get that far in each tree. I know this is confusing, but the strongest tank spec for DK's is to grab bone armor, parry chance talent thing, and dread-plate. which means DK's will be sort of like paladin's in that they can self heal a bit but take alot of damage. sort of like druids because they will have higher armor but not be able to block ( so avoidance cant happen), and sort of like warriors with magic reflection and absorption, but not quite as good. The DK sounds like the hardest balance and gearing properly sounds difficult but i agree that Blizzard might wanna take a second look and make sure they don't knock other tanks out of the water.
Antiquity Aug 6th 2008 4:19PM
What I don't 'get' is that Prot/Feral have to spec into their respective trees.....while DKs have 3 to choose from not only to DPS, but to tank.
Maybe each one needs a bit more refinement, like Blood is single target, frost is AoE, and Unholy is magic tanking.
I just already am hearing complaints from Prot paladins and warriors about how they have to spec into a tree heavily to succeed while the DK doesn't have to.
I think I'd rather see focused trees like the other classes...just seems to be possibly opening up a huge issue with other tank specs to get the shaft.
Varkelen Aug 6th 2008 4:30PM
The idea is this. Ghostcrawler states that while you could have a fury warrior tank a 5 man, you wouldn't make that your MT for all raids. A tanking DK will be a DK that has spent the talent points and geared to be a tanking DK. They will have good DPS, but to be a top notch dpser they will need to take talents and will have to forgo certain tanking talents and vice versa.
They are doing the same with Feral. There will be cat talents and bear talents. You can pick up some cat talents as a tanking druid to help you be a dpser when needed and vice versa, but a druid that has spent the points on the bear talents will be a better tank than one who has spent their talents on cat talents.
Antiquity Aug 6th 2008 4:53PM
A warrior pretty much cannot tank a raid (unless he massively overgears it) without a heavy investment in the Protection tree. The difference is the DK can go into the Blood, Frost or Unholy tree and still tank. But she probably needs as many tanking talents as she can get (which does not have to mean the same number of talents that other classes spend), and definitely needs the tanking gear and player skill that go along with raiding.
----
That's just a confusing read IMO. He needs to be a tad more specific because as it reads now...if the DK spec's into tank abilities in any tree, they can tank a raid...just with a different flair.
Jordrah Aug 6th 2008 5:01PM
its not that they will be able to have a spec that is effective at tanking and dps'ing at the same time (like feral is right now) for all the trees.
i believe the idea is that they want them to be able to tank with any of their specs. all the DK talent trees have dps talents and tanking talents, they arent all placed in one tree.
the 'nerf' to feral isnt really a nerf. they are making it so depending on HOW you spec feral you will be able to tank or dps more effectively than the other. in other words, you'll be able to spec feral dps or feral tank, or spec for both and be less effective than one spec'd for one. it just happens that both the specs are in the same tree.
also, the difference between DK tanking specs and pally and warrior tanking specs is that for warriors to tank effectively in any spec you'd have to change the trees up to a point where someone who has been playing since beta or even since TBC's release would not recognize them. would also tank massive amounts of work and time from blizzard and would delay the release of the expansion quite a bit.
perhaps depending on how effective their plan here with DK ends up being we *might* see something similar done with paladins and warriors. but not likely.
imparush Aug 6th 2008 7:12PM
blizzard did change dk to have 3 trees for tanking to help getting tanks, so all death knight don't chose dps as the only thing they can do and take the dps spot in raids
Adam Aug 6th 2008 4:47PM
think the main reason that blizzard is making all the Dk trees viable for tanking is really to make DKs a tank class. They know everyone and their mother is gonna make a DK and if DK had the ability to DPS as good as every other class then the whole game would be DK. Of course DK can DPS but I think they really want them to be the "hero class" tank. DPS tank is so gonna be the demon hunter class. Anyway I play on making my DK mostly for PvP, probably some kind of blood/frost build. I mean if i wanna tank i can use my druid or pally
Kaphik Aug 6th 2008 4:49PM
Good point there.
The other thing people need to realize, just because they can tank doesn't mean they are going to, or that the player is going to be any good at tanking.
Adam Aug 6th 2008 4:50PM
I meant the DPS hero class is gonna be demon hunter. That's just my guess to what the next hero class could be by looking at lore stuff. I wonder if demon hunters would be open to all races or just elves (night for ally or blood for horde)