The Care and Feeding of Warriors: I still love you, Titan's Grip

Dear, sweet Titan's Grip, be thou not angered at me. Dost thou remember how our affair began, as news of you first broached the shores of Europe and invited the whole world in? Yes, I have aired my doubts of you in public before now. For the truth is, my fair one, you are not perfect. You can indeed withhold from me that sweetest of rage, which I use to rend my enemies in twain. But in truth how could I ever stay alienated from your beauty? For you do allow me to hit my enemies with two great honking weapons at the same time!
And that is wonderful.
Yet there are other wonders than Titan's Grip waiting for you warriors at the roof of the World of Warcraft, the ice-tinged continent of Northrend. What awaits us, you may ask? Well, ask or not, here comes a day's observations of what awaits us. (Also, if you're wondering why I'm using Gorehowl and a shield in that picture, let me just say, Shield Slam doesn't use the same cooldown as Bloodthirst. Also, fury tanking! More about this in the post itself.)
Now that I've done the expected and obligatory gushing about TG, what say I talk about the state of things warriorish in Wrath of the Lich King's enthralling beta? (Yeah, yeah, it's not a word. Sheesh, you people.)
And that is wonderful.
Yet there are other wonders than Titan's Grip waiting for you warriors at the roof of the World of Warcraft, the ice-tinged continent of Northrend. What awaits us, you may ask? Well, ask or not, here comes a day's observations of what awaits us. (Also, if you're wondering why I'm using Gorehowl and a shield in that picture, let me just say, Shield Slam doesn't use the same cooldown as Bloodthirst. Also, fury tanking! More about this in the post itself.)
Now that I've done the expected and obligatory gushing about TG, what say I talk about the state of things warriorish in Wrath of the Lich King's enthralling beta? (Yeah, yeah, it's not a word. Sheesh, you people.)
First off, the arms tree feels somewhat incomplete. Bladestorm is fun, but not terribly powerful, certainly not so potent that it feels like it's worth being the 51 point arms talent. Bull Rush increases charge and intercept stun by a whole second if you put three talent points into it. Strength of Arms is solid, but like all such "makes you stronger" talents it doesn't have much of a feel to it. Trauma works nicely with Blood Frenzy and Deep Wounds, and with Rend now working with weapon damage it's probably worth getting if you're that far down the tree anyway.
The problem I had looking at arms talents was, the tree still feels absolutely defined by Mortal Strike. Now, I love Mortal Strike. Who doesn't? (Hint: every single other class in World of Warcraft. Death Knights will be making corpses explode, raising their arena teammates as ghouls, and pulling LoS casters right to them with Death Grip, and will still complain about Mortal Strike.) But it's the 31 point talent in a 51 point tree, and it still dominates the tree utterly. I don't want to see it nerfed, both because I hate nerfs and because I believe MS is far from overpowered (go ahead, as an MS warrior using any weapon other than a Stunherald, try and kill an equally geared resto druid or disc priest. Go for it.) but I am kind of embarrased and annoyed that 20 points down the tree, nothing, not even Bladestorm feels as cool or powerful as an ability that's been around for two years. Something needs to be done. Bladestorm needs something cool (perhaps a crazy animated target to target charge like Kargath's Blade Dance) to make it actually powerful rather than somewhat gimmicky. (The complete snare/root/fear immunity is nice, it's a shame it's not an actual fear break though.) Right now, the following build would be possible at level 80, and while it's just one I threw in at the spur of the moment, it shows how deep you can get in fury while still grabbing MS. Personally I find the idea that it's even considerable (I'd probably go deeper in arms just for Strength of Arms, myself) to be a problem.
I took prot spec out for a spin on my human warrior as well. So farm I'm in unmitiated squee country with it. Shockwave is astonishing fun, good for grinding, good for tanking. In my two test tanking runs on my human (one in old school T5 - T6 tanking gear, one in PvP/DPS gear for resil crit reduction and more AP) I quickly found myself using Shockwave every single time it was up. A 20 second cooldown makes this semi-spammable, and the boosted damage from AP gear makes me hope the promised re-itemization of tanking gear materializes, because I had solid threat in the PvP/DPS set from it. Without a functioning meter (Blizzard's in game one just annoyingly pops a '100% threat' over mobs heads at odd moments at present or what have you) I can't say for sure which generated more threat.
Unlike arms, even with the loss of Shield Slam (it's a skill now, all warriors have it) deep prot is just packed with excellent on-purpose talents. Vigilance is worthwhile just for the 10% threat reduction: slap it on that annoying DPSer you know and keep it on him the whole run! (Or put it on the healer if you're feeling proactive.) I didn't actually have to use the taunt aspect of it all that much, but it's nice too. I never got to use Safeguard at all, as I never had to intervene to anyone. It looks good on paper, though. Sword and Board seemed a little buggy (I could swear I was getting the proc sound and seeing the buff but not always being able to Shield Slam) but when it worked, it was very very nice indeed. I could gush and gush about Critical Block, Stalwart Protector, and Incite (I really like Incite for other tanking specs, while I'll cover next) but eventually I have to stop going on and on about how awesome prot is now and move on.
My tauren, after a brief run as arms to get the feel of the spec, went full-on fury. (I've chosen him as my fury testbed because his gear isn't as good, so he'll see more upgrades faster... oh, and yes, because the Horde quests and starting zones seem cooler so far. If anything, Wrath of the Lich King could be the expansion that wins me back full time to the Horde. I'm not kidding.) This is his current spec, aimed at DPS with some tanking viability. If things went live unchanged (which they won't) then this would be the level 80 version of the spec. Don't let the picture accompanying the article fool you, you can't actually tank with a 2h weapon and a shield, you won't get any rage. You can, however, grind with a 2h weapon and a shield and experience almost no downtime. You take remarkably little damage, Bloodthirst scales with total health now, and if you have the rage handy you can Bloodthirst and then Shield Slam almost immediately after.... heck, if Bloodsurge procs you can Bloodthirst, instant-cast Slam, and then Shield Slam all in one go. I tanked Utgarde with the level 70 spec and had a good time (no loot, though). I did try with the Gorehowl, but no, you just don't generate enough rage even with full Intensify Rage (at least not fast enough to keep them off the healer). If you have the rage and a good macro though you can swap between a fast tanking weapon and your 2h for some nice slams when Bloodsurge procs, that gets attention. Doing the run in my PvP/DPS set on the cow meant I had solid AP for my Thunderclap and the new strength/Block formula meant I still had a respectable 450 block value or so. (It might have been higher when Gorehowl was equipped.)In short, if you want to fury tank your way to 80, it's possible. It requires slightly more patience from a group, especially if there's no CC, but the potential is there. Prot's still better, so if you're a prot warrior worried about losing tanking spots to fury, don't be. Prot's got more threat, more tricks and more survivability, but at last, you can stay grinding spec and tank a five man or stay tanking spec and still complete quests in a reasonable time with nice AoE moves.
I'm either bad at targeting it or Heroic Leap can't be targeted properly yet. I don't know what it looks like when someone else does it: when I do it, it looks silly from my perspective. In general, even with the scaling issues Titan's Grip is the solid heart of a really nice tree that just needs a few tweaks. I'd say of the three talent trees, arms is the most in need of some solid review love, fury could use some polishing and some better animations but is almost there, and prot is gonzo solid.

And that's two days in the beta for you. Tons of quests, lots of nice green plate if you're not well geared yet (see the above screenshot) and a lot of running all over the place to digest. If there's anything you want more detail about, speak up: if I haven't tested it yet I'll be happy to do so for you.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Classes, Talents, Buffs, (Warrior) The Care and Feeding of Warriors, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Belo Aug 8th 2008 7:19PM
Looking forward to it.
Dominic C Aug 8th 2008 2:28PM
So if titans grip and heroic leap are tweaked, (most likely will be) do you think fury could actually stand a chance in arena or still be humiliated by arms?
Matthew Rossi Aug 8th 2008 2:29PM
Hard to say: a level 80 build will have a lot more options than I have at 70. I think it comes down to, how much DPS is that MS debuff worth? 50% healing reduction while the debuff is up is effectively costing the healer twice as much mana for the same effect, but it's hard to keep it on constantly... so if you can burst hard enough with a TG build, you *could* outperform the MS debuff, but I'm no numbercruncher.
tchernobyl Aug 8th 2008 3:07PM
I had a level 76 pally, admittedly in t5-t6 or s3 gear, crit heal me for 11.4k Hit points. And i have nothing that increases healing done to me.
This isn't even arena, with season gear and such. No burst in the world is going to make up for humongous heals like that, without some healing reduction like mortal strike. So, no, MS is still the king of pvp builds.
Blayed Aug 8th 2008 2:36PM
THANK YOU!
I've been hurting for some warrior news since.. forever. I've been so paranoid about DKs taking over, and I wanted to hear what TG was like (the theorycrafting doesn't cut it).
When questing/killing mobs (PvE server, so don't factor world PVP in here) is 2 2handers or 2 one handers better? I was thinking 2handed main hand and fast offhand. The 2hander/shield seems interesting, how does it's damage vs. uptime compare to 2hand/2hand, 2hand/fastOH, or MH/OH?
zappo Aug 8th 2008 2:58PM
I wouldn't be worried about death knights as any current tanking class. The bad reputation they will gain by every noob out there thinking they can just spam buttons and tank well because Blizzard says they can tank will keep the warriors/pallys/druids in business for quite some time. I'm already dreading joining groups where the tank is a death knight.
Xin Aug 8th 2008 2:38PM
i still think titan's grip wont be able to out dps regular one handed weaps due to it's slow swings and lack of rage generation. i think the best build could result in a 17 in arms then the rest in fury (maybe some in prot for bloodrage and that crit one) that leap skill at the end of the tree does not look that impressive it is more like o crap skill than a dps one. testing is needed to determine what's best i guess
dan Aug 8th 2008 2:57PM
For raiding synergy and utility you're going to see a lot of DW1h Trauma builds. Mark my words.
hpavc Aug 8th 2008 5:56PM
Lack of rage? More like wasting rage for bursts over 100, likely adding in SS to rage dump.
For something like this, SS/TG
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LA0czAboZVxzVxxoiubx0h
Tcgjarhead Aug 8th 2008 2:38PM
Fury wanted pvp viability but not at the expense of a total lack of dps talents that far up in the tree :(
Even moving BF to the Fury tree where it belongs would greatly increase our raid viability.
Furious Resolve is pretty weak. Unless your tank is new or having some kind of issues you should not be having threat problems.
Intesify Rage...I cant see ANY dps warriors using this since you shouldnt be getting hit anyways in a raid.
Heroic Leap, even if they do fix this do they expect me to run out of melee range just to use it on a boss? Obviously a pvp talent.
And unless they fix Titans Grip, which most on the warrior forums are expecting to be mostly used in pvp using a 1h DW spec will most likely be a better dps spec.
Where's the loooove?! :P
tchernobyl Aug 8th 2008 2:51PM
See my post here :P
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/08/08/ask-a-beta-tester-death-knight-free-edition/2#c13597399
Regarding titan's grip, and a number of other talents of the warrior trees.
Saelorn Aug 8th 2008 2:51PM
All I've ever wanted as a warrior is to be able to grind without downtime or constantly eating bandages. I'm glad that Titan's Grip + Shield will let me do that.
MechChef Aug 8th 2008 2:53PM
"(go ahead, as an MS warrior using any weapon other than a Stunherald, try and kill an equally geared resto druid or disc priest. Go for it.)"
"PvP is not balanced towards 1v1."
Matthew Rossi Aug 8th 2008 3:04PM
Bring a rogue and try it two on one.
tchernobyl Aug 8th 2008 2:54PM
woops, wasn't meant in response to you but a general response to the OP
tchernobyl Aug 8th 2008 2:55PM
..good god i hate this comment system. Why can you only respond to either the original post, or one comment, but no other? Terrible >_
Jeremy Aug 8th 2008 3:05PM
Why the love for the Prot tree? Are bosses stunable now? And, if not, does Shockwave damage them or give you threat?
tchernobyl Aug 8th 2008 3:09PM
Bosses are not stunnable, even 5 man ones.. but the damage and presumably the threat component of shockwave does indeed go through.
Phohammar Aug 8th 2008 3:40PM
I think the biggest thing that people just aren't getting with this expansion is:
With the addition of a new class blizzard is taking steps in a new direction in class design and talent point arrangement. Why is everyone all stuck on bladestorm sucking in pvp? Have you thought about it's use in pve? Swinging an additional time every 1.5sec is hardly weak when you look at the fact that you're still doing your normal white attacks. Last time I checked bladestorm was broken and charging the warrior 125 rage instead of the intended 25, ontop of the fact that you're immune to CC and probably already have hamstring on the target, how is that not massive? As far as titan grip, with the new windfury totem and flurry up, your attack speed will be 15% faster than the normal swing speed and you're still attacking with 2 2handers. Did it ever occur to anyone that Heroic leap might be intended as a pvp talent and bladestorm might be intended as a pve talent?
Saelorn Aug 8th 2008 3:52PM
I was under the impression that bladestorm was channeled, and white attacks would not occur. Under this assumption, it basically lets you whirlwind a couple of times in succession, while moving and for substantially less rage. Nice, sure, but warriors were never intended to be AoE damage machines.
I can count on one hand the number of time I've accidentally pulled three or more enemies and wished I'd had something like this, and Retaliation/Cleave/Sweeping Strikes handled those instances admirably.