Breakfast Topic: How much are expansions changing the game?
Groups of Words' anonyomous blogger bought up a rather interesting theory regarding World of Warcraft expansions: They're actually more like sequels, in that they change a lot of the basic groundwork of the game and the classes to such a point that it feels like a completely different game.
As evidence of this, he puts forth a large list things that have changed between original WoW and Burning Crusade. Being a semi-old-timer to WoW, I certainly recognized pretty much all of the changes, and thinking back, a lot of them have been doozies.
40-man raiding to 25-man raiding, for example, really changed the face of the raiding game in a lot of ways (I actually like how he compared 40-man raiding to today's battlegrounds -- something many players do not because they enjoy it, but because you can get epic loot while being mostly AFK).
Itemization changes are a bit of a doozy as well. Those alone have changed how many classes play on a basic level. Feral Druids are still trying to assess the fallout of converting to Rogue gear in Wrath, and may need some basic mechanics changes because of it. Enhancement Shamans have found themselves in a similar, if less world-rocking boat.
Tanking is a third example that's also pretty massive. Originally, most people considered Warriors the only viable tank for any instance or raiding content. Some particularly obstinate Feral Druids and Protection Paladins might carve out a niche at the 5-man level, but it was generally agreed that it was because their guild and/or friends were humoring them.
But look at the expansions. In BC, Feral Druids and Protection Paladins are consider equal tanks to Protection Warriors for a lot of content. In Wrath, Warriors, Druids, Paladins, and Death Knights of any spec are supposed to be able to tank basic content, and tank-specced members of each class should be considered equals at raid and heroic tanking, according to Blizzard's new philosophy.
All of these changes really do seem incredibly radical, and if you've been watching the game as long as I have, you can see how it's all affected the way people play and think about the game world and their chracters -- and all this is just the tip of the iceberg. Really, both of WoW's expansions have changed or will change the way we look at the game in massive ways, so I have to say that I can see the merit of calling them full fledged sequels with backwards compatibility to their predecessors.
So do you agree with GoW's premise? Are BC and Wrath so earth-shattering as to be better classified as sequels to WoW rather than expansions? Either way, are these major changes to the game each expansion a good thing or a bad thing?
Filed under: Breakfast Topics, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, The Burning Crusade, Classes, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
matt Aug 23rd 2008 8:09AM
man still can't belive there was 40-man raids.....how did people get full Tier stuff lmao?
Gerb Aug 23rd 2008 8:26AM
Well, it took quite long to gear up a whole raid, indeed. But apart from the bad sides (slow gearing up, need to gather up 40 people, etc), having 40 players work as a team definitely felt extremely epic.
Ragnaros, Nefarian, they were truly epic.
Eternalpayn Aug 23rd 2008 8:50AM
I have no idea. My guess is that multiple tier pieces dropped off of the same boss on the same kill.
lolwut Aug 23rd 2008 8:54AM
'having 40 players work as a team definitely'
Don't you mean 30? Since 10 of them were probably afk.
Malkeior Aug 23rd 2008 9:13AM
Sorry, too busy spamming my BoSalv key to do anything!
Tridus Aug 23rd 2008 9:53AM
It took longer. A lot longer. Like, months of farming MC to get everybody decked out. We've got it pretty good that way in BC.
The thing that I don't miss about 40 man raids is that actually getting 40 people was often the hardest part. You'd wind up simply needing warm bodies. So unless you were in a top-tier guild that could leech players from other guilds, you wound up with this:
- 15 Great members
- 10 Good members
- 5 borderline
- 10 people who autoshot, and go AFK for ten minutes at a time without anybody noticing.
BC largely cut out the bottom fifteen, which I can live with.
arcady0 Aug 23rd 2008 5:51PM
Before I got into WoW - I avoided the game after hearing about raids from a friend. Mind you at the time I thought that was how the whole game worked.
He told me of the 40-person thing. He also mentioned that he had required hours of play, his guild restricted him to 3 toons allowed, used xFire to make sure he wasn't logged into WoW on another toon somewhere, or some other game, and of course - the rules about spec, gear, and so on.
Did -not- sound fun.
By the time I joined, a few months before BC, that kind of mentality was just about at its breaking point, and I think BC did a lot to improve things.
But having armory and guild banks and PvP-gear has also really upped the guild -drama wars- And while a 40-person raid was really rough to get organized, 10 and 25-persons really aren't much better.
25s, which the extreme gear they require to get in, are little better than 40s were. 10s, would be great but for the whole thing about stacking buffs and needing so specific of classes (or people thinking its needed) resulting in still a decent amount of drama and grind-festing to get to them. Better, but still needs improvement.
PimpyMicPimp Aug 23rd 2008 7:42PM
40 mans, while epic your first time, quickly became an evil, evil thing.
Bat Kat Aug 23rd 2008 8:12AM
I agree that they do feel more like sequals on how they change the game. I specifically like how they are trying to dig many classes out of the pigeon holes they were unintentionally put in, as well as trying to even out all the specs so that no single one better than the other for any class.
I play a warlock, and while I enjoy being affliction, its nice to see that we won't be rolling our eyes when we see someone join a group with a fel guard because demo is currently horribly underpowered as well as misused. The changes to that tree should see some more action on the raiding front. But I still expect to see many locktards not using the tree to its best potential.
Ahoni Aug 23rd 2008 9:23AM
Its amazing how many people still believe the class stereotypes, even when they have been disproven. Not theorycrafted, disproven.
Try reading about felguard raiding sometime.
http://wowmb.net/forums/f106/17405-raiding_felguard_ssc_tk_hyjal_bt/
Nyarlathotep does a nice write-up of a felguard raiding SSC, TK, Hyjal and BT. The conclusion? "On average it seems demonology damage is higher than other warlock build damage."
Jason Aug 23rd 2008 2:34PM
Class balance? There really is never a class balance. IMO they screw up the premise of some classes. I still remember the days when dagger rogues could actually do some good. Now dagger rogues are like hitting with butterknives. Seriously, there are so many move specifically for daggers on rogues, yet now it's stupid to roll with daggers. TY BC. Still being a mage, (and prone to QQ) I have seen my class go down the drain since WoW's original Beta and am praying that Blizz finally relizes that we need help.
V Magius Aug 23rd 2008 4:28PM
I switched from Affliction to Demonology a few weeks ago and probably won't look back for a year. My DPS about trippled immediately and my survivability went up.
Nick S Aug 25th 2008 10:19AM
But Demonology requires pet management, which a large number of WoW players can't handle.
I've seen Demo 'locks in Kara and badge gear top DPS charts against T6-geared raids. It's an amazing spec. Too bad Destro is so much easier.
kunukia Aug 23rd 2008 8:26AM
Yes, it is pretty radical. I never saw a raid until BC, and I started playing WoW two weeks after launch. Raiding nearly broke my guild in vanilla WoW, as many members left to join raiding guilds. In BC, we have been able to raid with a strong association with another medium sized guild, and even field some guild-only ten mans.
As for Wrath, as a hunter the changes are pretty huge and exciting. My favorite class is about to become my even more favorite class. There has been so much news on the hunter front, that I have not paid attention to much else, but I hear my shammie and druid will be getting pretty big changes also.
Metal_Gear Aug 23rd 2008 8:49AM
I dont like Expansions in MMOs, the main bulk of the cash is from subscriptions so that cant be the reason they do it and all it is doing is cutting people out of the main content until they get the latest expansion. Granted it gives them something to advertise but they could have advertised the introduction of Northrend just as well as a patch and the level increase thereby welcomeing everyone at the same time into the new content. Think 'Fury of the Sunwell' but on a larger scale.
Saying that, WotLK is still on my 'to buy' list. :)
I'd say that having to buy loads of expansions to join a game is rather off putting, next year it will cost about £45 to join WoW with all expansions.
Eternalpayn Aug 23rd 2008 9:45AM
Unless they pull an EQ where the latest expansion gives you access to the content of all expansions.
Promethus Aug 23rd 2008 9:00AM
Never thought of them as sequals but with these points brought up it makes sense :D
While I don't miss 40 mans I miss some of those bosses. I remember one time Nefarion put on the Priest debuff and we killed him a second later so all the priests started to flash and greater healing our MT for fun and watched him die.
matt Aug 23rd 2008 9:05AM
Gerb said...
Well, it took quite long to gear up a whole raid, indeed. But apart from the bad sides (slow gearing up, need to gather up 40 people, etc), having 40 players work as a team definitely felt extremely epic.
Ragnaros, Nefarian, they were truly epic.
ya maybe that is why they waited for 3 years for the first expansion....maybe that is way they change the raids to 25 man raids......
Gerb Aug 23rd 2008 10:32AM
Blizzard's thought process must've been something in the sence of that the bad things outweigh the good things, one of which is the epic feeling.
And I have to agree with them. Good 25-man (and perhaps 10-man) encounters can still feel very epic, just differently. It just depends on one's preferences.
Zayd Aug 23rd 2008 9:08AM
I can honestly say I never did a 5 man/40 man raid in vanilla wow that didn't have a prot warr as the only tank. I remember there was one drood who told me he tanked Ony tbut that was it.
The other massive change in Burning Crusade imo is the beefing up of the crafting proffessions, LW/Tailoring/BS etc have all been really juiced up into desirable pursuits.