Patch 5.2 interview with Dave Kosak
Inside an old alt's vault
The latest patch 5.2 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsAsk WoW Insider: How to PuG Heroics
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 27th 2008 at 6:00PM
I've just rejoined an endgame guild (my Hunter just recently hit 70), and while I used to run Heroics pretty often on my Shaman with my old guild, my new guild is much smaller -- while I like them a lot, they aren't as much into running instances as I am, so endgame instance runs are few and far between with them.So I'm left to PuG Heroics on my own, and I'm having the same problem deviate_delight is: getting into PuG Heroic groups isn't proving to be easy. I'm a good player, and my gear is pretty good (OK, to be truthful, it's probably a little low, and I just need to keep running non-Heroic stuff a little more until I get luckier with loot drops), but for some reason, I'm having a tough time making my way into Heroic groups.
So let's put the question out to you readers: any advice for players like me and d_d on how to start Heroic dungeons without guildies to run with? Anyone have a strategy for getting a good, regular Heroic group together, or how to make it so that Heroic runners seek you out when they need a DPS (or tank or healer or whatever you are)? Heroics are great places, full of good loot and badges and all kinds of things that can help immensely with the endgame, but with the wrong people, they can really ruin your day. How can we get a group that works?
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Odds and ends, Instances, Raiding, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Alch Aug 27th 2008 6:53PM
A friend and I got tried of being only dps so did a druid healer and tank level up. It is very hard to do heroics because most dps are so well geared that a new tank can not hold aggro unless the dps are smart.
The reward system in BC just didn't scale right to let you level up a toon late. Most rep items and non-heroic loot is worthless besides MrT.
Eternalpayn Aug 27th 2008 8:40PM
I agree with you on the rep, but not the non-heroic issue. Even if you instance leveled, you aren't going to ding 70 in full level 70 blues. You aren't going to get into Kara or heroics with less than that. So that makes the non-heroic loot worth it. That's like saying that t4 is worthless because t5 is better; progression starts before raiding does.
vlad Aug 27th 2008 6:56PM
heroics are cute but dont people pug hyjal & bt now? at least they were starting to when i cancelled my acct 7 months ago.
SweetPoison Aug 27th 2008 6:59PM
I have a pally tank that is saving up badges, and I run pug groups constantly. Not joining them, but actively starting them and seeking out other players to run with. I give everyone a fair shot, and if they say they want to go, I honestly don't even look at their gear (well, maybe the healer :P). Gear doesn't mean anything, was gets them on my invite list for future runs is whether they have the capability to follow instructions and function well as a group.
As a matter of fact, I find that the quality of players goes down as the quality of gear goes up. The better geared they are, the more they expect to just kinda "meh" their way through for easy badges. Undergeared players tend to really work harder, stay on the ball, and are in my experience, more fun to run with.
/endrant
Celton Aug 27th 2008 7:02PM
I haven't gotten a bad heroic group in awhile, and I run a lot of heroic pugs. At this point, I think most people know what they're doing. I just don't make running the heroics my goal. I join LFG and go do my thing and if there's a group looking one, I'll join. If not, I just keep doing my thing until there is.
Skorp Aug 27th 2008 7:05PM
I am also a hunter, and have a hard time find pugs for heroics. My current gear set is t4/t5 mix. And the biggest problem is that there are never any tanks on that want to do heroics and if there are they tend to suck horribly on my server.
Pfooti Aug 27th 2008 7:05PM
Another trick is to make sure you're really good at your role. That is: either be a very good Tank, Healer, or CC. In heroics, nobody notices excellent DPS all too much, unless that is combined with excellent CC. On my tank, I usually /friend and remember the DPSers in any pug I'm in if they're good at CC. That means being able to sustain traps, seduce, sap/blind, and so on. If I don't have to worry about CC, I'm a much happier tank.
Chamual Aug 27th 2008 7:13PM
For pugs, the tank and healer are key. You can have pretty much any dps (some cc doesn't hurt of course) but with a bad tank or bad healer you are really screwed.
Unless you are a tank or healer, if you don't have decent guildies to run with the only thing you can do is keep running them until you hit a good group, then stick them on your friends list and stick with them. A good healer is a find but a good tank is an even better find so make sure you don't screw up when you do find them. As a (decent) tank myself I can basically tank any heroic whenever I want, tanks are in such short supply on my guild that 3 dps and a healer can be found in a matter minutes....
superfrank Aug 28th 2008 8:37AM
that is so true - I had a ret paladin at L60, could never get in instance groups. at L70 I had a prot warrior, it usually took me about 3 minutes to find a group for a heroic and I didn't realise how lucky I was. I now have a 70 warlock and good god I can barely find a group for magister's terrace!
Fletch Aug 27th 2008 7:14PM
I nearly always PuG heroics with pretty much 100% success, though half the equation for success is already on my side as I am (even if I do say so myself) a reasonably good healer. My only precaution is before joining a group I will look up the tank on the armoury to make sure that he is at least uncrittable. I have found healing in PuGs to be an invaluable experience. Having experienced an extremely wide variety of groups has made me a much better healer, able to react to a diverse range of different situations. I would advise everybody, especially healers and tanks to PuG on a regular basis.
clerkenwell Aug 27th 2008 7:19PM
As a fellow hunter, I used to have a similar problem. At least on my server hunter's are: overabundant, usually lousy, and seldom (read: never) sought after. As such, I found that to start off it's almost always quicker and easier to lead the PuG's yourself. Find people by checking the LFG tool and don't be afraid to whisper people in the capitals asking (politely) if they'd be interested in joining you. In my experience, most people are actually pleased by even an unsolicited invitation.
After that, just make sure to add quality players to your friends lists, and let them know you're doing it. Show your appreciation, especially to tanks and healers. They like that, and will be more reliable when it comes time to fill out the last spot in your next run, or when they need one more for theirs.
yicheng04 Aug 27th 2008 7:20PM
I've had a pretty good experience over-all in heroic PUGs. Sure you get the occasional horror stories, but they're good for a laugh, and you can develop a thick skin after a while.
As you're a hunter, my only advice is to be very very proactive. Understand that anyone who's not a tank, healer, or CC is *not* going to be in high demand, and that you are a member of the most maligned class in the game (often undeserving, sometimes not).
I would probably start pugging around peak server time (usually 6 or 7 for me), pick up any daily hero or dungeon quests there are. Pay attention to the LFG chat channel. If you see someone in the queue with you, check them out on armory, and ask if they want to group (please no ninja-vites). Be competent (know how to chain trap & assist), be prepared (repaired, have water & pet food), and be pleasant. Don't start blaming people just because you've wiped a few times. If someone has bad gear (within reason of course), give them a chance. After all, there's a reason why people do heroic runs (e.g. to gear up). At the end of the run, even if you wiped 50 times and haven't killed anything, be courteous and wish them good luck. You want to be remembered as the great hunter and have people look at in the queue (or better yet, just whisper you as soon you log on) and say "hey i know bobhunter. he's great. let's invite him!".
onetrueping Aug 27th 2008 9:52PM
This. Here. Well put, and very good advice.
emptyrepublic Aug 27th 2008 7:20PM
On my server you are in a PUG in under a minute if you are a tank or healer. There are a billion DPS and as a tank it's fantastic to customize party CC as I like due to the amount of selection.
Paul Aug 27th 2008 7:27PM
In addition to using your friends list, y'all might want to check out the addon called "Do I Know You", available from wow.curse.com. It keeps a local database of names, with a negative/neutral/positive rating system and a field for comments. It also will colour the names of people in chat and the LFG interface if they have a negative (red) or positive (green) rating.
I find it's really valuable for reminding me about people who sucked or were just plain unpleasant to run an instance with - obviously you don't want to put them on your friends list, and you might not want to use the ignore list for this purpose.
Codexx Aug 28th 2008 7:56AM
Make friends, you can send them a tell and they'll probably come with you if they're not busy.
Put yourself in LFG, when in the middle of an instance, PuGs, and even guild runs, will often check LFG first, and if you're listen in their, we'll try to pick you up. Maybe that's just my server, but give it a try.
g8rcody Aug 27th 2008 7:44PM
as a feral druid tank, I end all my good PUG Heroics by thanking everyone for coming, and suggesting that if they enjoyed my tanking, that they add me to their friend list and look for me in the future. people usually don't think of doing it on their own, but if you suggest it, more often than not, they will (if you did a good job, at least).
Skorp Aug 27th 2008 8:04PM
I am also a hunter, and have a hard time find pugs for heroics. My current gear set is t4/t5 mix. And the biggest problem is that there are never any tanks on that want to do heroics and if there are they tend to suck horribly on my server.
Fletch Aug 27th 2008 8:48PM
I must admit as a healer I am slightly nervous about taking hunters. It is unfortunate but their CC often leaves a lot to be desired and a stray mob that should have been trapped usually finds it's way to me and proceeds to beat me over the head with a mallet. Another favourite trick is that they over-dps and pull aggro from the tank then feign death often resulting in a very angry mob speedily heading in my direction. Indeed, the vast majority of the wipes I have experienced are due to dps classes not controlling their threat. Inexplicably they usually seem to blame the tank for not holding aggro. To all dps classes could I just say now that it is your job to moderate your threat in relation to the tank and not vice-versa. And another thing: please don't scream 'HEAL!!!' when you pull aggro. If you are not being healed then there is almost always a very good reason for it. Often it's because the healer knows that if he increases his healing output to save your sorry hide it will almost certainly mean that mob you were stupid enough to pull will make a bee-line for them.
Hilton Aug 27th 2008 8:38PM
Some of my best times in WoW have all been in PuGs. The hardest part of pugging is finding a group that isn't doomed to fail, or filled with people who belive that PuGs don't work.
1. Be Polite and sell yourself as a normal, functioning member of society. When talking to potential groups, use correct grammar and spelling. Manners go a long way.
2. Don't run with the first group who comes along. Be picky. Your first choice should be with a group who has a Tank and Healer already. Politely avoid groups who have three DPS and no tank or heals. Another option is to run with a group with the majority from one guild.
3. Carry a few extra elixirs and potions etc for yourself and power foods and scrolls for other classes. Offer a couple of feltail delight to the tank or sporefish to the healer. Use the scrolls on others. It's an easy way to be remembered and invited back next time.
4. Thank them for the run afterwards and ask if you can add them to your friends list.
After a couple of weeks, you will probably find yourself getting regular runs with a good group.