Blood Sport: Cleave carnage

Melee in 5v5 was popularized by Serennia in his Warrior / Rogue / Enh. Shaman and 2-healer set-up which he tried to dub 'Trifecta'. Trifecta never stuck, of course, so Cleave became a more popular term coming both from the Warrior ability and the fact that a target descended upon by multiple melee will feel like she's being cleaved in half. More than a few clothies have cried foul, and some have accused such comps as being brainless, skill-less, and -- pardon me quoting the term -- "gay". [EDIT: No, it is not okay to use the term "gay" in a derogatory manner, let's just make that clear.]
The accusation comes from the fact that the idea behind a Cleave team is very simple: pick a target and kill it. The idea is to apply constant pressure on the opponent. Because Cleave teams have extremely limited crowd control options, the only recourse is to apply so much pressure on one target that it almost acts as CC. A Warrior or a Rogue (or both) is required to make Cleave work because of the all-important healing debuff inflicted by Mortal Strike or Wound Poison, making their target difficult to heal through. Cleave trains also need to take the initiative because Warriors need to get that Charge off and Rogues need to Sap and get the opener. It's fast, it's simple, and it's effective.
In 3v3, Cleave compositions consist of two melee and one healer. Warrior / Rogue / Druid is a popular comp solidly above the the 2000 and 2200 bracket. In fact, one set-up that sees the underrepresented Shamans and Paladins doing well is a Cleave comp of Warrior / Ret. Paladin / Resto. Shaman, which has good representation above the 2000 bracket. In 5v5, seeing a Warrior and a Rogue together is extremely uncommon because the two serve similar functions and have similar abilites -- Kick and Pummel, Crippling Poison and Hamstring, and Wound Poison and Mortal Strike. On the other hand, if you're leaning towards a Cleave comp, applying all those on a single target (even if they don't stack) isn't a bad idea at all.
The point is, Cleave teams work with blinders. They tunnel vision one target and pound it into submission. This is both the comp's strength and weakness. A Druid healer in a 3v3 Cleave comp, for example, will focus on throwing offensive Cyclones to keep the opposing team's healer out of play long enough for her teammates to kill a member of the opposing team -- more often than not a clothie. A Shaman healer will spam Purge on the kill target to remove as many defenses and Heal-over-Time buffs. The occasional Priest healer has Dispel Magic and Mass Dispel. A Paladin healer would... well... do nothing. There's a reason Paladin Gladiators have dropped in number over the past three seasons, you know.
Sometimes, Cleave teams would swap targets in the event of an immunity effect such as Divine Shield or Blessing of Protection. Other times, they rely on the quickness of their Priest or Shaman to dispel such immunities. Again, the idea is to keep a strict focus on one target until it succumbs. Done correctly, it is virtually impossible to heal through multiple melee attacks with a 50% healing debuff applied. Once Blessing of Protection and / or Pain Suppression is gone, you're pretty much guaranteed a dead target. A Cleave team's favorite targets are Shadow Priests and Warlocks, even those specced with Soul Link. With no natural kiting ability or improved mobility, Warlocks explode when they come into contact with Cleave teams.
Actually, most clothies explode with Cleave and that's the beauty of it. A clothie with multiple melee beating down on her will not be casting anything that's not instant. Not easily, anyway. This is largely why players feel that Cleave teams are "ez-mode". There's not much thinking involved. There are few intricacies that lie between picking a target and zerging it until it dies. Everything, and I mean everything that the Cleave team does must be focused towards bringing that one target down. Disrupt that focus and you've taken the first step towards beating Cleave.
So how do you deal with Cleave teams? Simple. Outlast them. A Cleave team isn't built for longevity. With limited CC options such as Intimidating Shout and Blind, Cleave teams are ill-equipped to control a match. The only real control comes from the pressure they can apply to a target. Ease up on that pressure and you've already gained an advantage. Snaring, freezing, or crowd controlling one or two of their DPS reduces their pressure considerably. Applying converse pressure on their healer works, too. If a Cleave team doesn't drop an opponent within the first thirty seconds of a match, their chances of winning begin to slim down because they start to run out of natural methods of escaping a kite.
A Warrior in Entangling Roots will escape once through trinket. The rest of the time, she'll be yelling over vent for her support to dispel it or give her Blessing of Freedom. Even a Rogue can only Shadowstep every thirty seconds and Vanish every five minutes. The idea is to break the zerg, trying to keep the Cleave target alive through all means possible and applying pressure on the other end. This is why triple healer teams in 5v5 are painful match-ups for Cleave. At a certain point, the melee opponents will be supremely kiteable through a well-laid Frost Trap or unnoticed Earthbind Totem.
Easier said than done, of course, but the comp with the simplest strategies often also have the simplest solution. This is why Mages have a decent chance against Cleave, because the combination of Frost Armor, Blink, and Frost Nova are bad news for them. Ice Block even buys the Mage some time. The goal is to kite, heal, and control throughout the match. Accomplish this long enough and even the all-powerful Cleave train will run out of steam.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Blood Sport (Arena PvP), Arena






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Beo Fraser Aug 27th 2008 5:16PM
"More than a few clothies have cried foul, and some have accused such comps as being brainless, skill-less, and -- pardon me quoting the term -- "gay"."
That's right, proliferate childish homophobia. That makes a whole bunch of sense.
Jewbanks Aug 27th 2008 5:23PM
I dont think the intention is to actually ascribe the term to these kind of team comps. I think its more of a quick jab at the use of the term.
Garlictators Aug 27th 2008 5:32PM
as a child, did your parents shelter you too much?
anyway to get to the point, as a disc/holy priest in 3v3, I hate seeing this match up. I can fear(they trinket), bubble(two wars eat it up like cake), and pain supression. I cant cast heals with two melee on top of me. It's all up to my teammates to save the day. But when two warriors charge me at the same time, i know im getting raped whether i die or not.
Foxfyr Aug 27th 2008 5:52PM
Beo Fraser said: "More than a few clothies have cried foul, and some have accused such comps as being brainless, skill-less, and -- pardon me quoting the term -- "gay"."
That's right, proliferate childish homophobia. That makes a whole bunch of sense.
It's a shame people are voting you down.
Beo Fraser Aug 27th 2008 10:58PM
It's not a question of being sheltered, or anything like that. Continuing to give gay as an insult credence is not pardonable. Gays endure it in game constantly. And bloggers shouldn't give it the time of day by quoting it, pardoned or not - it isn't a valid way of insulting melee arena teams, and if the author feels the needs to use the words of others which denigrate me and my community then he really needs to analyze what he's saying.
PimpyMicPimp Aug 27th 2008 6:03PM
Totally agree. Why the hell would you put that in this post? You come off as an idiot, frankly. Come on, you're a grown man (I assuem) search your diction for a more appropriate and interesting word.
bumble Aug 27th 2008 6:09PM
Bloodelf Paladins are especially gay btw. Just thought I'd mention. 100% fact.
AutumnBringer Aug 27th 2008 6:25PM
phobia: an exaggerated usually inexplicable and illogical fear of a particular object, class of objects, or situation
Pronunciation:
\'fo-be-?\
Not debating on whether it's correct for "gay" to be used in the context it is in such cases, but while we're correcting people's word usage ... I sincerely doubt people use that word out of an irrational fear of gay people. Especially not the gay people I know who use it.
Maybe a person who actually has a phobia they struggle with would be offended at your comment and your flippant usage of the term.
That's all.
Angus Aug 27th 2008 6:34PM
PimpyMicPimp said...
Totally agree. Why the hell would you put that in this post? You come off as an idiot, frankly. Come on, you're a grown man (I assuem) search your diction for a more appropriate and interesting word.
Coming from someone using a username condoning the beating of prostitutes and forcing them to work for you, this admonishment is not exactly the most effective. Perhaps you would consider a username that is not degrading to women and doesn't promote violence towards your "hoes" before casting stones at someone quoting a homophobic insult.
idaz Aug 27th 2008 7:07PM
Omg, how dare you use the word 'hoes' in a sentence, it is so degrading to woman and such, let the gay pimp fist his hoes for all i care...
dude chill Aug 27th 2008 8:18PM
ITT: a bunch of gays
Ben Aug 28th 2008 12:09AM
What are you some kind of fag?
Jewbanks Aug 28th 2008 5:52AM
Im sorry that i defended at all his use of it (mostly because he then says it shouldnt be used but continues to use it), but also because everyone of you that felt the need to make a smart ass comment in an attempt to get attention piss me off.
So in an impotent attempt at expressing this anger I will give you the attention you need. Yall are all jackasses for giving someone a hard time for reacting negatively to the derogation of a group of people.
Sad Panda Aug 27th 2008 5:18PM
One more step on the way to world of Melee craft. I used to enjoy BG's and Arena but now you get beat down by any type of melee in there even in crap greens and blues. Being a warlock main and a Shadowpriest as my other toon that is fully geared I dislike the Cleave teams. Especially with Rogues stunning you from 15 yards away or the dumbest mechanic of all time stunlocking, fear is broken and useless but stunlocking has never been close to being nerfed.
I can't wait for spell pushback to get the nerfbat in Wotlk maybe then you can at least do a little damage before you're beat to a pulp.
ScorchHellfire Aug 27th 2008 5:41PM
agreed... i think its funny that clothies would just now be whining about this in arenas...
ive been playing a lock since open beta and meleers ganging up on clothies has always been there and has always been just as mindless and skillless... stuns by definition have always been better than fear and yet fear gets the nerfs not the retardedness that is all stun mechanics...
the sad thing is blizz is encouraging this crap... first rogues get cloak of skill to give them insanely good defense they didnt need against casters then they take away the reagent from blind making them even more the cc gods... not to mention being able to somehow sap people on epic mounts as they ride by the stealthed rogue... its bloody ridiculous...
and warriors already had their own superior version of aoe fear then an out of combat charge and now they are looking to get speed decrease free titans grip...
even with the spell pushback change its still going to be impossible to defend yourself from that kind of focus fire... blizz doesnt seem to care that they have thrown away one of the core concepts of class balance... if a class has good damage it should not have good defense as well!... and vice versa... in other words there should not be freaking fury warriors running around in plate and out dpsing casters!
casters cant auto attack for damage! meleers abilities have barely any cast times! fear is the most broken defense in the game and yet stuns go unnerfed! stuns dont have dr! stuns are all instant! stuns cant be broken or prevented nearly as easily! not only that but its usually pointless to trinket out of a stun because they can just use another one right away with no penalty...
clothies should have been rioting by now not just calling foul because of this arena crap... we've alway been at a fundamental disadvantage to meleers and they greatly amplified that in bc and don't seem to be changing that fact in wotlk...
and wtf is this bs with balance druids getting tons of armor from moonkin form and yet locks have no damage shields or anything like priests and mages do...
seriously blizz... if you dont want people to be clothie casters then just remove the classes... because if you did want people to be them then you wouldnt screw us so hard...
Nick S Aug 27th 2008 5:49PM
@Scorch
I feel your rage and frustration, and have gone on the exact same rant many times.
My solution? Reroll. I have a Warrior and an upcoming Rogue who will be my Arena toons. A Druid is soon to come.
It was that or quit Arenas altogether. You have to be a goddamn professional to win Arenas with a Hunter.
deadcheeze Aug 28th 2008 2:42AM
I just about gave up on arena. I love pvp.. but as a warlock without hope of finding a decent healbot to help me out.... It's pointless to even go into arena because it just causes fustration for me, and that is not why im going to play a game.
skakillers Aug 27th 2008 5:22PM
sorry, not pardoning that one. we deal with that more than enough in WoW and the real world, why do you feel the need to perpepuate it for a cheap laugh?
Irshalthra Aug 27th 2008 5:29PM
I think you should look inward. The writer was quoting the immature player's wording. We have all heard it and yes most dislike it - nevertheless it is a fact. I do not see a problem in stating the facts - especially if he points out the stupidity of it in the process.
Foxfyr Aug 27th 2008 5:49PM
People defending this use of the word like you are now, Irshalthra, is the reason its so prevalent today. It's hateful and offensive and saying it's OK to use it like this isn't going to stop the ignorant children that do it.