Forum post of the day: Dueling debate
by Amanda Dean 
Aug 27th 2008 at 4:47AM
Like any other form of PvP, you either love dueling or you hate it. Dueling is a great way to learn how to maximize abilities and test combos and macros. There are very few established guidelines for how to appropriate ly duel. Borkovic of Caelestraz asked in the official forums if it is acceptable to heal in a duel. Fliara of Terenas stated that protocols vary depending on server and faction, and suggested that rules should be established beforehand.
The first response, by Mlcho of Kirin Tor who takes an "all's fair in love and Warcraft" approach, was met with considerable agreement throughout the thread:
Use everything in your power to produce a win. Who cares if you use a pot? Who cares if you bandage?
If they whine, it's because they weren't prepared.
When I duel, I do it to prepare for arena combat. As a Resto Shaman, my strategy tends to be to outlast my opponent, so healing is very important to me. I consider it to be using my class and spec to maximize my chances of success. I agree with Daneric of Moon Guard, "Saying no healing is like saying no stealth to rogues, no totems to shaman, no pets to hunters, et cetera..."
I do not use potions or any abilities that are not acceptable in the arenas. Sure I could drop a Fire Elemental Totem, but that doesn't do much to prepare me for PvP when it counts. It seems silly to me to blow an ability with a long cool down in duels, but I've seen it done. It makes me giggle.
What do you find acceptable and unacceptable in duels?
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Tips, PvP, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
machieldejager Aug 27th 2008 5:04AM
I think it is acceptable to use every single ability your class and race has in order to win a duel. I myself don't use potions / eat during a duel, but if someone would use that against me, I'll do the same.
If you allow everything, you can really learn from duels, such as expecting the unexpected.
And if you see someone win with the use of a 20 minute / 1 hour cooldown, either duel them again or congratulate them for being able to beat you once, every hour or so.
sZimm Aug 27th 2008 6:34AM
i think having a fun duel is what matters most, not if you win or lose. i consider potting bad sportsmanship, but bandaging and healing are ok imo. in world pvp, i will only attack enemies who are at the same level/gear quality as me. stomping someone wearing quest greens or winning a duel at any cost just doesnt equal "fun" to me.
Thander Aug 27th 2008 3:28PM
"And if you see someone win with the use of a 20 minute / 1 hour cooldown, either duel them again or congratulate them for being able to beat you once, every hour or so."
Whenever I'm up against a rogue in world PvP, my only goal is to force them to use all their cooldowns. Without their cooldowns, almost any class can kill them. With their cooldowns, they can beat most classes.
Most annoying thing is Blind->Bandage->Restealth combo. It basically restarts the battle but they have more HP and get their full stunlock going again while you are at half HP or less. I accept it though, knowing they can't do this again for at least 5 minutes.
Roxton Aug 27th 2008 7:42AM
I see no problem with using cooldowns, except that if you then get dueled again afterwards you don't have them to rely on. This especially applies to rogues - on my server, the mark of a good rogue is not to win, but to win without using cooldowns (though this really applies to any class). Potions are right out, but bandages are allowed; basically, it's arena rules. And of course, we try wherever possible to duel in twill, with only weapons and trinkets equipped. That way, it becomes more of a measure of skill, and less of a measure of who was able to grind AV the longest.
Codexx Aug 27th 2008 5:19AM
I agree with the "all's fair" approach. If you aren't prepared, tough. In the end it's about who wins, and that ability could make the difference. If you want to set rules for special duels, fine. Underwater duel? ok. No healing when 2 pallys go at it? ok fine too. No killing of pets is another one I'm sure hunters would endorse. But when it comes to PvP, are you going to hold back in arenas? When winning means you're that much closer to a reward? No. So unless stated otherwise, all things should be allowed.
durendul Aug 27th 2008 5:20AM
i personally (and most 70s on the server) follow some basic guide lines
-come in unbuffed (or just self buffed)
-start >30 yards apart.
-no using pots or any kind of regent that you could not use in arena
-no using move that you cant use in arenas
-and this one people will argue about but some rouge will use no more then 3 major cool downs (50/50 in people who believe this)
-along with this Warriors start with 0 rage
durendul Aug 27th 2008 5:22AM
just would like to add bandages and eating are fine
Eliseth Aug 27th 2008 12:53PM
Just a note--when you're dueling under a duel flag, only self-buffs even count. That is, if your rogue has fort on, as soon as the duel starts it doesn't actually count anymore, and you don't get the bonus hp. Anyone who whines about extra buffs is a bit uninformed. :)
Chamual Aug 27th 2008 5:45PM
Start more than 30 yards away???? How is that fair or equal to melee classes?
I think standing a bit away (5-10) yards is fine but 30 is just crazy! imagine giving a warlock or mage a 30 yard headstart!!?!
Naix Aug 27th 2008 2:03PM
I personally (and most 70s on the server) follow some basic guide lines...
-Do whatever it takes to win. If you can use it use it.
Jamie Aug 27th 2008 5:24AM
Everything goes. If I heal against a class that can't, then they should have used their abilities to DPS harder; so if I can't use say, Greater Heal, you can't use Pyroblast ok? And If I can use a pot, so can they.
To say some things aren't fair is the cry of the sore loser in my opinion.
Dinnerbone Aug 27th 2008 5:35AM
Most people I duel agree to use Arena rules: Use only things you can use in the arena; healthstones and any conjured items you can create, bandages, no long CDs, etc.
condemner Aug 27th 2008 5:37AM
You should duel according your own rules. Although i have one thing that i dont think is really fair. Thats bandaging. Healingclasses dont have an extra profession they can use in duels (arena's) so why letting other classes use em?
durendul Aug 27th 2008 5:39AM
but you can bandage in arenas
Malkeior Aug 27th 2008 6:33AM
That would be a viable argument if healer's couldn't bandage to save mana.
Matt Aug 27th 2008 7:44AM
hey, what about engineering?
It's not like healers would go that for spell reflectors or anything in addition, right?
Honestly, nothing wrong with it. Especially when I do rogue vs rogue duels too it often comes down to a bandage tick.
anaughtybear Aug 28th 2008 4:44AM
Until there is some form of reward for dueling, I'll continue to avoid it like the plague. These duel-obsessed people should take there aggression out on world PvP. World PvP is the only real PvP.
Balius Aug 27th 2008 5:43AM
Bandaging and eating are skills available to all characters with a material cost so negligible as to not exist. I can see banning potions to keep dueling from being a money sink, but you'd really have to make that rule ahead of time.
Arbitrarily banning certain skills, like healing or "long" cooldowns, just reeks of bad playing. If you can't beat that shaman because he can heal, well, you can't beat that shaman.
Rovec Aug 27th 2008 6:14AM
I agree with the long cooldown and consumable rules when I duel. To me, dueling is about seeing how skilled you are against another player and trying to improve those PvP skills.
If you fight a shaman who throws down a fire elemental, pops heroism, uses leatherworking drums, drops an Engineering flame turret, and chugs health potions the fight isn't going to see who is more skilled at their class and its not going to help anyone get more skilled.
It'll just be an easy kill, a waste of money, and a waste of time.
Usu Aug 27th 2008 5:45AM
No pots, only self-buffed, other than that pretty much anything goes - of course I'll heal (as I play a resto druid in pvp it would be stupid not to) and innervate and expect my oponent to bandage / eat if they manage to drop combat. Same with pally bubble, lock healthstone etc., anything that works in arenas I'll expect in a duel.