Denis Dyack says EVE is better than WoW
by Mike Schramm 
Aug 28th 2008 at 2:00PM
Who's Denis Dyack? He's the outspoken president of Silicon Knights, a company that just finished many years (almost 10, some say) of making a game called Too Human that disappointed widely. And that, of course, qualifies him to be an expert in MMO design, right?Maybe not, but he's going to call out WoW anyway. In an interview with Videogaming 24/7, he claims that while he enjoyed World of Warcraft, EVE Online was for him personally the better game. He claims EVE has more depth than WoW, and is "a lot harder core." And he says that both games made him force himself to stop playing -- apparently they both just took too much time to play.
We've played both as well, and EVE certainly is a very deep and complex game (almost too complex for many players' tastes, we'd guess). But we'll leave the question of which game is actually better up to you. We will, however, point out that while lots of people have opinions about which games are best, not all of them are developers. If you have strong opinions about which games to play and not to play, shouldn't you be making even better games than the ones you don't like?
[via Massively]
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Fan stuff, Virtual selves, News items
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
David Whyld Aug 28th 2008 2:07PM
"a lot harder core."
Nice to see he's up with all cool phrases as well. Harder core, eh? Good one.
Sgt. Sausagepants Aug 28th 2008 2:17PM
It really is though.
You have to be hardcore about a game that made spreadsheets into a form of entertainment.
Jokes aside, the fact that players shape the game world via politics and system control is fantastic. It just takes a lot of patience.
Derick Aug 28th 2008 3:36PM
That phrase is really starting to be ridiculous...
dmoz Aug 28th 2008 3:42PM
If he didn't care about being cliche, he should have probably said "more hardcore", because then at least he would have been used the term properly.
jrb Aug 28th 2008 7:43PM
he doesn't say it's better. how would anyone quantify that? Dyak's outspoken, but he's not an idiot. What he actually said is "I love EVE Online, and actually for me personally I actually think it’s a better game".
come on mike, i expect better journalism from the co-lead. :-P
Gary Aug 28th 2008 2:07PM
Fanboys, start your engines!
tcgjarhead Aug 28th 2008 2:11PM
He says he prefers EVE over WoW, is there something wrong with that?
DirtyPriest Aug 28th 2008 6:56PM
So he likes a more hardcore game. Depth can be argued (lots of data!=depth).
Most MMO's fall into the grind fest / elitism. And EVE is one of them. So I really think eve is nothing special. A hardcore game among a sea of hardcore MMOs i.e. grind fests cause lets face it, hardcore in a MMO sense means its a massive grind fest to appeal to those willing to throw away hours to be top dog.
It's a fail-safe system of MMOs, crown a few elitist dip shits king in your MMO, and bang you've got yourself a set of dedicated fans that will stick to your game and guarantee you income (in theory anyway... didn't quite work out so well for most other MMOs, you'd think they'd learn).
Blizzard does this too, but just enough to keep them and pull in the casual market. And no upcoming MMO post-WOW seems to want to change that. Which is disappointing really. The MMO genre is in serious need of a revolution. You'd think WOW would spark off lots of copy cats, at least take some of what makes WOW so appealing, but no. WOW is most likely that first and last MMO I ever play... that is until WOW2! =)
LXj Aug 29th 2008 2:40AM
Someone prefers EvE to WoW! Such a revelation for Mike! He HAS to blog about it!
Buckshot Aug 28th 2008 2:10PM
Star Wars Galaxies pre cu is better than both
TotalBiscuit Aug 28th 2008 2:11PM
May I point out that Too Human was far from disappointing, and was reviewed by some complete imbeciles. Having played the game, it's the best action-RPG since Diablo 2, has a great unique setting, tons of loot and replayability, as well as 2 player co-op. Magazines reviewed it like an action game, not an RPG, and in the case of rags like 1up and Gamespot, were clearly competing too see who could pull in the most traffic from criminally low scores.
The guy has a point, EvE is far more advanced than WoW and has a lot more depth. The universe is player-controlled, and there's a potential for amazing PvP. Unfortunately, that's the game's appeal and it's curse. The game is just too hardcore for me, there's too much data and too many things to learn and the fact that you can lose your property in such a major way is a deal-breaker. That said, EvE should not be discounted, it comes from an entirely different style of MMO than WoW, and is one of the more successful MMOs.
Yeng Aug 28th 2008 2:22PM
For probably the only time ever, I agree with TotalBiscuit, at least on the part about Too Human being a fun and in-depth game. So I wouldn't exactly say that it 'disappointed widely'. I will say this though, from the interviews I have seen with Denis Dyack, he is pretty full of himself and while I believe Too Human is a fun game, I don't think its the revolutionary game that he believes it to be. And in the end, we're talking about his opinion here, which he's entitled to, one way or the other.
TotalBiscuit Aug 28th 2008 2:24PM
While the gameplay isn't revolutionary, the setting certainly is and I think that's something people often ignore. The techno-viking settings is a step up in maturity and complexity when it comes to story-telling, without a trace of generic in sight and Baldur is an anti-hero the likes of which we rarely see. To me, Too Human is a sign that video-games are growing up as an artform, and that is indeed, revolutionary.
Mike Schramm Aug 28th 2008 3:14PM
I played the demo. I wouldn't say it was a bad game, but I would say it was disappointing. There was a lot of potential there, and the two analog stick controls and the clumsy inventory system left something to be desired. If I had someone else really invested in the game with me, I'd buy it and have a grand old co-op time. But instead, I'm doing that with Castle Crashers, a game that did the opposite of disappoint.
TotalBiscuit Aug 28th 2008 5:34PM
The dual analogue sticks are probably the closest replication of the Diablo 'hold the mouse button down and aim' control system you can get on a console, hence the reason it works. If anything, it's better than the Diablo system due to the ability to use more complex combos in arcs, hitting multiple targets.
But yeah, Castle Crashers is awesome :)
Faar Aug 28th 2008 6:36PM
You're likely right on every point, matey. I rather liked the Too Human demo - there was a bit too many cutscenes compared to the amount of free playtime, and the menus were a bit disorganised, but the game itself wasn't bad.
And Eve is tons more advanced than WoW, and has loads more options etc. However IS IT REALLY MORE FUN?
Eve's learning curve is super steep. You can legally get ripped off by other players in the game. If your ships get blown up it's tough luck buddy, hope you got insurance or got the cash to buy another. :P Ganking is even more a way of life in Eve, and quite frankly - starting out as a beginner in Eve mining ore is mindnumbingly horrible.
Add to that the confusing interface with its myriads of options, new Eve players sure got their work cut out for them. It's not by sheer coincidence that Wow's become as popular as it is. It's got depth, but can be played by an idiot at the same time.
Eve's a bit too much to handle for most players, unfortunately, because space games are cool IMO. I just can't deal with all the peculiarities Eve throws at me and figure out how to play the game without getting bored or GETTING LOST. WoW has distinctive terrain for all zones - eventually you'll find your way to wherever it is you're supposed to get to. Space on the other hand looks pretty much the same wherever you go. One better enjoy blackness and stars in the background to like spending very much time in Eve. ;)
jrb Aug 28th 2008 7:46PM
tb, i'd agree with every point, apart from 1up being a 'rag'. they're one of the few online outfits to sit down and have lengthy mature conversations with dyak (the 1up podcast is excellent btw) and took time to actually hear his opinion, and seriously learn about the game. this week a few of their team are playing it and saying positive things about it... not overwhelming positivity, but still, positivity.
doug Aug 28th 2008 2:14PM
If Too Human wasn't terrible, I'd care about what Denis Dyack had to say.
TotalBiscuit Aug 28th 2008 2:16PM
Have you even played it?
doug Aug 28th 2008 2:20PM
I played through the demo and didn't enjoy it one bit, and I'm a huge Diablo-style game fan.