Rogues in 8885: Tricks of the Trade
by Eliah Hecht 
Aug 30th 2008 at 8:00PM
- The current party or raid member becomes the target of your Tricks of the Trade. The threat caused by your next attack and all actions taken for 6 sec afterwards will be transferred to the target. In addition, all damage caused by the target is increased by 15% during this time.
As many people have mentioned by now, this is basically an amped-up Misdirection for Rogues. The damage increase gives it some utility in PvP, where threat is meaningless, and of course it doesn't hurt in PvE. Rogues don't usually have problems with threat, but we do have problems occasionally with not bringing much to the group besides DPS. This will certainly help change that; we can now help cement aggro onto the tank whenever needed (the word is that the cooldown on this is 30 seconds). And the way it's shaping up these days, pretty much every class brings something special; why not rogues? Even if, in true Rogue fashion, we've stolen that "something special" from the Hunters -- I love it.
Filed under: Rogue, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
chaud Aug 30th 2008 8:05PM
CasualInsider, why do you fail me so!
Wrong build number.
Kahz Aug 30th 2008 8:13PM
I was expecting something like these, with most skills getting alternatives so theres are no must have in WotLK.
It was just a matter of time for a Misdirection alternative and rogues needed that group utility.
SeanOr101 Aug 30th 2008 8:13PM
Wow, thats a really good idea.
As a mage, this would really help me out by adding a good amount of aggro on to the tank right off the bat. I can start pew-pew'ing alot sooner!
I'm sure rogue friends of mine will be happy!
Mad3453 Aug 30th 2008 8:35PM
Except why bring a mage when you can just bring 5 rogues?
Think
Say 2-3 Tanks, 6-7 Healers, the rest Dps
Boomkins, Dks, and Ret Pallys will all have spots as those 3 classes cover almost every utility ability given out in the recent changes.
So that will leave 10-12 spots open for any class you want.
Now considering this new Rogue ability, 6 second duration Misdirection onto the tank on a 30 second cooldown. Bring 5 rogues and you now have a permanent 15% dmg increase + threat increase from the 5 rogues keeping this up. No raid would ever need to worry about threat.
Rogue A uses ToT on Tank for 6 seconds
Rogue B uses ToT on Tank for 6 seconds once Rogue A's 6 seconds has expired
Rogue C follows Rogue B
Rogue D follows Rogue C
Rogue E follows Rogue D
and finally Rogue A's cooldown is now up and the cycle repeats itself.
Unless this spell gets its cooldown changed, or a debuff placed on whomever its used on preventing its use on that target again for X duration, atleast 5 Rogues will be brought to any min/max raid.
Considering Rogues have always complained about deserving their top spot in damage because of the lack of utility, and looking at what they will be receiving in the upcoming Rogue polish patch its safe to assume their damage will be as good if not better then it is currently. Couple that with this new very useful ability and Rogues are easily the best dps class to take until the the 5 rogue quota is reached.
Its a very poorly thought out spell class balance wise if it receives no changes from now till Live. Not saying it won't of course, it is still Beta.
And the PvP implications of it, hah.
Bad enough the class dominating PvP currently thanks to their wide variety of escapes/openers/cc abilities being on relatively short cooldowns, now just had most of them cut in half/reduced significantly, on top of now yet another ability which will grant a 6 second burst of 15% extra damage every 30 seconds. As if Cheat Death, Shadowstep, 1/2 minute CoS, 2/3 minute Sprint/Evasion/Vanish, Sap into Blind, and of course Preparation resetting all of those wasn't enough, now the dev team feels it necessary to give them an extra short duration trinket every 30 seconds.
Sure must be nice in Rogueland.
Bisquick(z) Aug 30th 2008 8:47PM
@Madz
Most Rogues will be using it on themselves after the first application. Shame that a long-winded post such as yours was completely wrong.
cilis Aug 30th 2008 8:55PM
"Except why bring a mage when you can just bring 5 rogues?"
Lets see... because we don't provide dampen magic or amplify magic. We do not provide raid consumables. Caster crafted gear is traditionally better than rogue crafted gear so its less work in the new raid zones to get the casters to a good starting point. We do not offer good AoE, FoNs is hittting for an average of 500 damage at most.
You don't bring five rogues because you have to deal with AoE trash, and CC heavy trash with sheeps. You also don't bring tons of rogues because blizzard puts in raid auras on bosses that hurt you the more melee you bring. Not only does it cause you to need more healing, but the more healer spots you need the less hybrid dps you have which means fewer raid wide buffs which means less raid DPS overall.
Lets see... Najentus has an aura that bounces between melee and causes a need for us to be manage sponge. The eagle boss in ZA. The whole phase we're pratically useless on with supremus, the whirl wind with leotharis, archimond's airburst takes out the entire melee group, doomfire blocks us from getting back in, while ranged dps (the other three 'pure' classes ) have more places to stand, and do not take a whole group with them on air burst. Bloodboil whirling around and 1 shotting melee if they don't step out when he fel enrages someone... Azgalor, how about his butt? OKAY MELEE! everyone stand over here and kill doomguards... you're contributing! *pat pat* there there... Void reaver? Al'ar (wee! exploded by his flying chicken baby! ) Gruul? (oh gee, someone didn't heal the druid up fast enough, I just ate a hateful strike!) or how about ZA's eagle boss?
Need I go on? Blizzard designs MANY melee unfriendly bosses, with stacking melee you have to stack healers and everyone loses buffs. Melee take more danger in doing their basic role than you do as a mage.
We offer the least utility out of the four pure DPS classes and are the only out of the four who can call themselves melee. We are also the only ones who didn't get nice crafted epics to keep our damage up on the way to BC, outside of a decent belt, while you all had your cloth crafting for kara, and then when you got your vortex and primals, for SSC/TK level. Then HoD crafted gear in black temple. Even being a tailor is easier, your mats drop off of monsters while to be a leatherworker I'd have to skin.
For the risk, difficulty and lack of anything nice for the raid (outside of this coming up) we should have an edge, but remember HEALING is a limiting factor in overpopulation of rogues in a raid.
cilis Aug 30th 2008 9:02PM
Also, prep doesn't reset all of those. They've nerfed it repeatedly because of crying like yours... now it just does sprint, shadowstep, vanish, cloak of shadows, premed and evasion.
Double blind doesn't work, double clos doesn't work. As far as our dps goes, ghostwalker(raid designer) has said there wont be a big gap in dps between rogues and the next pure dps class, so much so that a few errors on the rogue's part will make him lose his lead. Mages were doing 8-9k damage in their internal raid test while rogues were at 3k.
These changes were DEFINITELY needed, with the warrior cooldowns changing, the time cuts were needed, have you even considered that pvp is going to be turned on its ear from WoTLK? Hunters getting a jump back attack, warriors refreshing MS with 25% on each hit, chances to execute on every hit regardless of health, them being able to wield a 2 hander in one hand, still block with a shield at the same time, shield bash you, and shield wall. Druids with the new furor can unload in cat form, swap to bear form to let energy regenerate and then go back to cat to unload. Warlocks will be able to transform into a stun resistant melee monster that resets his health to 100% while in the demonic form, returning to his old health after the effect is over.
You really think rogues shouldn't change? I'm sorry you're butthurt, but thats no reason to leave one single class out of the fun an expansion brings in new abilities and tree restructurings.
Snuzzle Aug 30th 2008 8:20PM
Raise your hand if you can see the rogue casting this on himself and then vanishing when the duration is done? :P
Farrell Aug 30th 2008 8:27PM
I can see that same rogue being one-shotted by the boss before the duration is done...
Ulupoka Aug 30th 2008 10:38PM
not gonna lie. that thought popped in my head as soon as I saw the damage increase.
Dominace Aug 31st 2008 1:00AM
Or cast it on someone else and vanish after the first hit :P?
PeeWee Aug 31st 2008 7:22AM
It's good to see the think-tank in action. Ever stopped to think about maybe this cannot be cast on yourself, just like you can't use RD or Intervene on yourself?
Geez.
Lysdexia Aug 31st 2008 8:05AM
You do know that it won't double our agro....it's a transfer agro skill, so if we cast it on ourselves, we won't be doing any more agro apart from the fact that we'll be doing 15% more damage
what will most likely happen is all rogues will use it on the main tank, and then once the cooldown refreshes, we'll use it on ourselves, or if we can't, we'll just swap ToT from rogue to another, thus balancing out the agro amongst us
Taytayflan Sep 2nd 2008 4:16PM
I can see me putting it on people I don't like and pulling the boss /vanish.
And using it for solo grinding or running lowbies.
Farrell Aug 30th 2008 8:24PM
oh damn, that's nice. Means instead of watching our aggro at the start of the fight, we can just dump it onto the tank.
Acceptable Risk Aug 30th 2008 8:29PM
Question: When it says, "all actions taken for 6 seconds," does it mean all of the rogue's actions or all actions raid-wide?
I have to assume it's caster-only, because if it were for everyone, that would just be crazy.
lolwut Aug 30th 2008 8:31PM
Dear god... The one truely unique thing in a raid setup that a hunter could do unlike anyone else.. now given to a rogue whos primary role is to 'wtfpwn' dps charts.
then again, we do get camoflauge - let's wait to see how that turns out O.o
Farrell Aug 30th 2008 8:39PM
the opening MD will still be given to hunters, I feel - a rogue's ranged DPS isn't the same, and those initial hunter shots will always be needed to get the initial threat set in.
Of course, it now means that there'll be no chance of the tank losing aggro.
I can actually hear it now - a rogue being called to "TotTy" the boss when it looks like someone else's getting too near on threat
ThunderZtorm Aug 31st 2008 4:45AM
That's only on par with how Blizzard thinks these days. Every single buff/debuff should apparently be able to come from at least 2 classes/specs. Only logical that rogues, the masters of trickery, gets it.
Also remember that BoS is gone, and threat generation has been changed somewhat. I'm pretty sure we'll need both MD and this thingie regardless of what sort of tank we got.
Sl0th Aug 31st 2008 6:24AM
I don't see hunters will quit being called on to Misdirect any time soon. We'll still be designated pullers. It really means that we will have another group who can help add threat to the tank during a fight. And help us direct traffic a bit when a mob goes nuts.
Now Blizzard. How about buffing our Misdirects with a nice damage bonus or a "How ever many times you can hit in 6 seconds" condition to match?