Officers' Quarters: Allow me to rebut
Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.There's only so much a blogger can take before he has to set the record straight! Two of my August columns -- and, oddly enough, even some columns I wrote back in January -- all managed to stir up a bit of controversy last month. Some of my readers made very good points, some were flat out wrong, and some grossly misunderstood my intent. I'd like to address them one by one.
First up is Auz from the excellent blog ChickGM.com. She respectfully disagreed -- albeit vehemently! -- about my columns from early in the year about what to look for in a potential officer and what types of people to avoid promoting. Here's what she had to say about my criteria in a nutshell:
Don't create strict rules or boxes for your leadership. Some of the best leadership is done outside of conventional thinking and wisdom. To quote myself; "If you do what everyone else is doing, you'll end up where everyone else is."
First off let me say that Auz is right on the money about not putting artificial restraints on your choices. Part of being a leader -- perhaps the most important part -- is having good instincts about people and knowing when to trust your gut. I could name a couple of officers in my guild who at one time were on the verge of being booted from the guild. But I sensed an incredible potential in them to turn all that bluster and insubordination into positive energy and a will to succeed. Today I'm proud to have them representing the guild. One of them even turned into a very solid raid leader.
So I agree with her on that score. And I also agree with her that every guild has different needs. A guild leader should ultimately handpick officers based on the various required roles -- and those can vary quite a bit. An A-Team of four Murdocks would be a disaster, and so would an officer corps where every person has the exact same skill set and viewpoint.
However, I disagree that my criteria aren't valuable. Auz writes that generosity can be a double-bladed axe if the officer spends entirely too much time helping people, to the point where your members never learn self-reliance. And that's true. However, any single character trait, no matter how benign, can be harmful when it is taken too far.
Maturity can be harmful if the officer looks down on members who like to joke around. Good communication skills can be harmful if the officer doesn't know when to shut up and leave a situation alone for a while. Emotional intelligence can be harmful if the officer uses it to manipulate people. And even game knowledge can be harmful if an officer sticks too rigidly to a predetermined strategy, ignorant of the fact that it just isn't going to work for that particular group of raiders.
Even so, simply because such traits can be taken too far does not mean that they are not, in my opinion, the hallmarks of effective leadership. It is simply a matter of moderation, of what is reasonable and what is unreasonable. That's where your leadership instincts have to help you distinguish between who has the "right stuff" and who has so much of it that it scares you.
Likewise, Auz points out that some of the traits I identified as less than ideal can actually be good attributes. And once again, that is true. There will always be examples where a weakness, in the right circumstances, can become a strength. But there is a difference between an endearing quirk and a major character flaw.
I'm not saying that someone who gives off any of such warning signs is unfit for leadership. After all, everything is relative. Even a perpetually hammered officer can be effective if he or she happens to be the least hammered person online in a guild of heavy drinkers. Rather, I am suggesting that such traits should give you pause before you pull the trigger on a promotion. Think about how those traits might play out in real situations and whether or not they could lead to something catastrophic. You have to be aware of these warning signs before you can act on them, but ultimately you have to trust your instincts.
I recommend Auz's post as a very good evaluation of how tricky it can be to choose officers and how you must tailor your leadership choices to your own unique needs. However, I also stand by my criteria, which, more often than not over many years of leadership, I have found to be extremely relevant.
The next column that got people riled up was my pre-Wrath wish list. Specifically, many people objected to my idea that officers should be able to see which characters in the guild were tied to a single person's account, a feature I called "Alt ID."
In the reader comments, Barnister wrote the following:
Alt ID? A big NO-NO!
Whether it's should be viewable only in guild or not, it's a big NO-NO!
Lots of people have alts to flee the drama, the stress and whatnot coupled with their mains.
So NO! I for one want to be able to log on my alt and be left alone by my friends and guildmembers when I choose to.
I may not have been entirely clear in my post, but I certainly meant that only your alts in the guild should be known. Everyone is entitled to their unknown alts so they can still log in and enjoy the game without always having to deal with whatever is going on in their guild.
However, I completely disagree that you are entitled to private alts within your guild. Once you ask for that invite, the officers have a right to know who your main is. In reality it goes beyond having a right -- it's an absolute imperative. If you haul off and ninja a legendary drop, we need to know who all your toons are so we can gkick and blacklist every single one of them.
If you've got our guild tag under your name, everything you do affects the reputation of that guild. If someone outside the guild comes to me about how your harassed them on your level 12 rogue, if that alt is in my guild I need to know who it belongs to so I can settle the matter.
In short, if you want to be "left alone," don't ask me to invite every single toon you have. As long as you're not advertising that your main is in my guild, I don't care what you do on your unguilded alts.
Finally, two weeks ago I wrote a column about how to address your online leadership skills on your resume.
Fugmug had this to say in a reader comment:
Dangerous post. Putting stupid ideas in people's heads when it concerns their financial future is nefariously mean, Scott. And yes, I know mean.
In case any of you huntards who need roll on cloth are confused, remember only one thing:
During any interview at a firm that is not a graphics/gaming company, you have a better shot at getting hired if you stand up and slap the interviewer than if you mention *ANY* kind of video gaming.
NEVER NEVER NEVER mention any kind of qualities that you think are positive that you learned from a video game environment in an interview, unless you suddenly decide you don't want the job and want the interviewer to wrap it up quickly.
Even as a gamer myself, if someone were to present that to me during an interview, it would *NOT* be viewed favorably.
I've been called a lot of things in my time as a guild leader and blogger, but never "nefarious." That's a new one. But it's also a pretty cool word all around so I'll give you credit for that!
Plenty of readers added their own rebuttals to this comment, so I won't go into a long, detailed response here. But I will clarify the purpose of my original post for those who may have misunderstood it.
I am not, under any circumstances, advocating that you sit down for an interview and immediately launch into a prepared speech about how your hours and hours of Warcraft play have made you the ideal candidate for a job (unless that job is at Blizzard, perhaps -- but even then, maybe not).
The person who asked the question wasn't asking whether or not you should list your officer experience on your resume, but how to do so, and that is what I wrote. I did spend a paragraph or two examining the relevance as a bit of an introduction. Obviously, however, you need to evaluate for yourself whether or not it's a good idea to mention this on your resume.
If you feel you've learned about leadership and acquired valuable skills during your time as an officer, it could be beneficial when appropriate to mention that experience in one of the more innocuous categories of your resume. If your interviewer wants to delve into it, then make sure you have some solid examples to back up your claims. Otherwise, it's not a topic you want to bring up out of the blue.
Like it or not, online interaction is real human interaction and online leadership is real leadership. The stakes may be quite low compared to a corporate environment, but the lessons we all learn are no less meaningful.
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
jon Sep 1st 2008 10:04PM
"Like it or not, online interaction is real human interaction and online leadership is real leadership. The stakes may be quite low compared to a corporate environment, but the lessons we all learn are no less meaningful."
A perfect ending, couldn't agree more. Especially since I have done this and been hired!!!
Krelian Sep 1st 2008 11:15PM
Now, I don't speak for every person's interests in WOW, but I don't want to know the dildo color of any member of my guild. The very thought curdles my insides. So I'm going to side with the philosophies expressed here.
Alaw Sep 2nd 2008 8:29AM
I do, PST.
Milktub Sep 1st 2008 11:17PM
I only want to respond to the first comment ... of course you should be choosing officers based on your needs. DUH. Even different types of guild need different officers. A social guild has no need of a min/max follower for an officer. A raiding guild has no need of an officer who just loves running alts through dungeons. But each of those officers would be a perfect fit if they swapped guilds.
Kasuro Sep 1st 2008 11:54PM
If you've got 'stress and drama' associated with your main in your guild, it's time for a few things:
1.) Find a new guild.
2.) Find a new MMO.
3.) Realize that you're paying money to be stressed out by other people on the Internet in a video game created and marketed as an escape from the real world and meant to be a fun past-time or hobby.
proudmoore Sep 2nd 2008 5:30PM
+ 1 internetz to you
Sylythn Sep 1st 2008 11:41PM
To the resume response - this is ludicrous unless you're taking the whole thing very seriously and putting your gaming or leadership role on the same level as a job - which you shouldn't be. There should be a Personal Interests section of your resume, even if it's just a line or two - because it's really important to show you are a human being - as opposed to just a sum of your job experience. This is the perfect section to put down that you're interested in gaming, that you're an officer in a guild (or a club), etc. If you were to present your Raid Leader position in a section along with your job experience, I can see the poster's point - but when you keep it where it should be in a section about your hobbies and what you do in your spare time, there's no more harm in saying you're a computer gamer than that you're interested in model airplanes - and putting down that you're an officer in a guild or a raid leader, might just get you asked what that means. If I were to then explain just how much personal and technical skills it took to do that "job" and it were received unfavorably simply because it was "just a game", then I've found myself a very narrow-minded company/interviewer. And for students who don't yet have any job experience, I don't see how putting down the soft skills you've learned from being an officer in your guild is any different from the soft skills you learn as a boy scout, or as a member of Model UN, etc.
Panaçea Sep 2nd 2008 3:25PM
Go read his original post.
He never said to put it in the "Previous Career Experience" on the resume. He said to list it in the "Other Skills" where they would be relevant to the position. And not put WoW anywhere on the resume, but the skills learned. If the interviewer asks for more than have valid examples.
While it will never be something I would do I could definitely see it being a viable use/application. Experience is experience. If working at a summer camp can be on a resume so can other skills you learned.
Casere Sep 1st 2008 11:49PM
I agree full-heartedly regarding leadership skills and even technical skills coming from computer games or online games, and I will even go so far as to say that I've asked some interviewees what games they play to confirm what type of computer or technical experience they have. I have conducted interviews for technical jobs, and some of the candidates that state they have computer experience think that playing solitaire or being able to open MS Word qualifies them to put advanced computer skills on their resume. By finding out what games a certain individual plays, I can learn a lot about them. Are they a team player? Do they have technical skills (e.g. if you've ever installed mods to play WoW, troubleshoot video card issues, configure and troubleshoot a Vent server)? Do you have leadership skills (Raid Leader, Guild Leader, Party Leader)? We now live in a computer generation that relies heavily on one's ability to adapt to new software and new hardware. I have found that individuals who game tend to have the technical experience that my company needs. However, I will add a caveat to that statement. In addition to the gaming/technical skills, said individual would also need maturity (which doesn't always match one's age.)
Araidine Sep 2nd 2008 12:57AM
I enjoyed this post. My guild has many officers and they are all unique and fun in their own way. Some officers enjoy just playing around while all of the others are veteran raiders. Each one of us has a different aspect to our personalities that the GL admires and it makes it easier for us to see things we might have missed if one person didn't mention it to the rest of us. Our guild leader is amazing and he knows what it takes to keep the guild together and keep our raids moving when we falter. The only real incidents we've had with officers were from ones he didn't promote himself. Now he's the only one who can promote.
I also agree that officers should be able to look at an alt and know who the main is. Most of the time, that's what the Officer Note is for and we are required to put in the officer note who that alt is when we invite them. There was a time, however, when I had my paladin in our guild and I didn't want non-officers to know who I was. So there is a thin line, but it is not at all a horrible idea.
Kiukiu Sep 2nd 2008 2:26AM
On my warlock, I am a very loud and 'colourful' person on the guild vent during every raid...and I would wager 90% of the people love me for it. They enjoy raiding because of me being there and making everything better and funnier and because it gets everyone going and improves the entire fun factor of raiding beyond loot, content and other more mundane elements. This led easily to my leadership position within the guild and my very blunt approach has ensured things go smoothyl in trouble spots (by the simple expedient of kicking out on sight anyone doing anything that is retarded without exception or warning).
Sadly, though, my leadership methods are not universally liked and my conversational manner (vulgar, off-beat and at times overdramatic) gets up the noses of some people who liked to complain about it and, when they caused trouble, were kicked out of the guild. If you have a way you like things being run and the majority of people agree with it, that is something you should maintain. People that cause friction in that should be removed.
Some say that's going too far but...really...as a result, we have a tight-knit guild that works very well together and everyone in it gets along nicely. I can safely say that it's a lot better than most other guilds I've been in that are filled with loot ninjary and drama. If a few uppity or annoying people are booted to ensure this, it's worth the cost.
Kentefyr Sep 2nd 2008 3:11AM
Just a small thought about job interviews and WoW/gaming in general.
The days of computer gaming, or even mmo's, being a secluded, vague hobby of hauling yourself up in a dark room for days on end have long been over. Any modern firm that cannot see the inherent reality - that games gross more worldwide than movies do - and that this is the norm for generation Y and below, will perish due to poor business insight.
Also, a firm which would consider such a hobby detrimental or would actually break off an interview because the interviewee mentions it, is not a firm I would like to work for. Likewise, I was once interviewed for a job as salesman and the VERY FIRST thing they asked - nay, demanded - was that I had my hair cut. Before they even mentioned credentials, pay, education... Needless to say I did not waste my time on the rest of that interview.
The skills learned from WoW (social skills, leadership skills, that is - not getting bosses down sadly) ARE definitely valuable skills on the modern job market. People claiming they aren't are blind to the reality of how today's job market functions.
ohitefin Sep 2nd 2008 3:13AM
Please don't mention your experience as a wow guild officer on your resume. Yes, it can be an interest and yes it does teach you leadership and how to manage people, but so does being the designated driver when you go out with friends. Trust me its not easy managing 4 of your idiot friends when they are drunk off their asses. And you wouldn't want to write that on your resume. I'm not comparing drinking with wow(although both go very well together) however i still stand by my saying that its a bad idea to put it on a resume.
I would never mention it in an interview. When i interviewed for a job at circuit city I joked with the interviewer that I loved playing Video games and that i would fit perfectly in that section. Much later( i mean 4 years later when i was interviewing people for a position) i realized that this guy didn't want me sitting around in the Video game section talking games with customers, they want them to buy a game and then use their time to browse other sections, not sit around one section not purchasing anything.
Please dont listen to this idea and put it on your resume, one of either two things will happen. If your extremely lucky and get another wow player then this may help( I say may, because being an officer in a guild and being a manager are two different things). however in the very likely circumstance that you get a non-wow player then your basically going to have to explain to the person what wow is and then what you do in the game. Thus showing how dedicated you are to the game, thus showing how much time you spend on it.
I know ive written this haphazardly, however I dont want people following the OP's advice. Its a bad idea.
Alaw Sep 2nd 2008 9:24AM
If you're dumb enough to use your WoW gaming time on your resume, you aren't smart enough for a (non-Blizzard) job.
Just like I approve of letting dumb people Darwin themselves out of the gene pool, I approve of dumb people acting dumb in their job search.
Aeneas Sep 2nd 2008 5:50AM
I hope to have miss-understood the reason for this article: You gave your opinions, people disagreed, so you put out anonther article to validate your personal opinions...
Are we going to have another article about the same things if someone disagrees again?
It reads like a forum monologue, an attempt at self-jutification, and much to my surprise: -Is actually longer than your original article!-
I always thought the idea of comments was to get a broad few and input from readers. The person writting the article doesn't hold the truth!
William Sep 2nd 2008 8:31AM
"the person writting this article doesn't hold the truth!"
What does that mean exactly (aside from the typo)?
William Sep 2nd 2008 8:35AM
ha! clicked the add button before i finished writing my question. What i meant is why are you saying he doesn't hold the truth? He's stating his opinion and his opinion was misunderstood. Not that he's arguing with someone, merely clarifying what he really meant. He's not saying his word is the absolute truth. He's saying that the comments people wrote showed him that he had obviously been misunderstood and that he should clarify. Thus the second article, which is longer than any one of the previous articles, but not longer than all three together.
Naix Sep 2nd 2008 9:36AM
I was defeated by a wall of uninteresting text.
Fugmug Sep 2nd 2008 10:27AM
"The person who asked the question wasn't asking whether or not you should list your officer experience on your resume, but how to do so, and that is what I wrote. I did spend a paragraph or two examining the relevance as a bit of an introduction. Obviously, however, you need to evaluate for yourself whether or not it's a good idea to mention this on your resume."
Hi Scott,
I thank you for the clarification.
Ultimately, it *IS* up to your readers whether or not they blow an interview or not. And that may sound negative and extreme, but the most probable outcome of bringing up gaming at an interview at a non-gaming company.
Suppose the interviewer had to fire someone in the past who sat at their desk and played games all day? Or suppose they already have an employee who shows up late due to their gaming activity? All it takes is one bad example, then everyone associated with gaming is a potential bad apple.
The world is changing and gaming is becoming more mainstream, but right now, most of the working world is still not ready to accept mmorpgs as commonplace, even if they do produce good traits in people.
Now, I'm not saying that I condone this, anymore than I would promote gender inequality or nepotism. But those things also exist, and happens to be how things are.
But going with the assumption that someone on an interview is looking to better their life (attain a job, get a better job, acquire experience, etc), and if they ask how to present traits from gaming to a potential employer, telling them how to do so probably isn't the best response. It's like someone asking, "Hey Scott, what's the best way to slash my wrists?" and you respond with, "Use XX knife, go YY deep, and cut in ZZ direction" instead of saying, "You really don't want to do that."
(A bit extreme of an example, but in your case the person is asking to commit potential career suicide instead of actual suicide. I may be presuming much to attribute one interview to career suicide, but how do you argue that it's not? One interview can change the entire course of a person's life.)
Regards,
Fug
actodd Sep 2nd 2008 11:54AM
The same can be said of any hobby or interest (or job) you list on a resume. If an employer has had a bad experience with a staffer who came in late because their band had a gig the night before - might she then not hire me because I list playing bluegrass as a hobby? Or what if they have had negative experiences from employees who graduated from X University or worked for Y company?
You should not base your resume on if you can think of a single negative scenario. Instead, your resume should highlight your skills and put you in the most positive light possible. And keep in mind - millions upon millions of people play MMO's, your new boss is just as likely to be one of them as someone who hates them.
And, to be honest, if I were in high school or college and drafting my first resume, listing the ability to organize and manage weekly events in a virtual setting with people from all over the world sounds much better than serving soft-serve at the local DQ.
Is it better than being captain of the track team, or playing violin in the orchestra or making the honor society? No, but it's not any worse either.