Rogue changes, round two
The Rogue class is going to be the target of a vast array of smaller and larger modifications in the LK beta. We saw a set of these changes already, and last night Gamnin came by the forums to post another set. The interesting changes (and there are a lot of them):
- Cloak of Shadows cooldown down to 1.5 minutes, from 2 (1 in live). Elusiveness will now reduce the cooldown of CloS by 15/30 sec as well as its previous effect.
- Tricks of the Trade confirmed; they note that "we'll need one type of solution or other to prevent the need for 5 rogue Trick rotations."
- Assassination:
- Vigor moved to tier 3. It's long been a sub-par talent, so this is sensible.
- Relentless Strikes moved to Sublety tier 1, and raised to five ranks (from one) for the same effect (4/8/12/16/20%). Fair, but a little difficult to stomach too. This does somewhat achieve their stated goal of making it more accessible, but quintupling the cost and putting it in my least favorite tree is not what I had in mind.
- New tier 7 talent that I assume is taking Vigor's place: Overkill: Abilities used while stealthed and for 6 seconds after breaking stealth cost 10 less energy. I'll need to play with this, but it looks pretty great.
- Master Poisoner has been moved and redesigned. It's now in tier 9 and has three ranks, and instead of increasing chance for poisons to hit, it now increases everyone's crit chance against targets you've poisoned by 1/2/3% and lessens the duration of poisons on you by 17/34/50% [fixed, thanks].
- Hunger for Blood's effect increased to 30 sec, from 10.
- Combat:
- Precision now increases chance to hit for Poisons too (by 1/2/3/4/5%). Even more of a required talent now.
- Throwing Specialization now has a chance to interrupt the target whenever Fan of Knives is used. It's a terrible talent, it's always been a terrible talent, and I wish they would just let it stay dead in peace.
- Unfair Advantage either rewritten or buffed. Gamnin wrote for this talent "Whenever you dodge an attack you strike back for 50/100% of your main hand weapon's damage," but neglected to say whether this is instead of or in addition to the previous effect. Either way, it's pretty cool.
- Stay of Execution eliminated, replaced with Blood Poisoning: All physical damage caused to enemies you have poisoned is increased by 1/2%. Now we have two trees that gain a significant advantage from having poisoned the target; I hope we don't see too many poison-immune mobs. Anyway, Stay of Execution looked really weak to me for such a deep talent, so this is good.
- Prey on the Weak now increases crit damage from all attacks (previously was white damage only). I'm often skeptical of talents that increase your crit damage, since they frequently don't work out to be as strong as they look at first, but this one is tuned pretty high, especially with this change.
- Subtlety:
- Premeditation cooldown down to 20 sec, from 2 min; however, Preparation no longer resets Premeditation's cooldown.
- Shadowstep no longer usable while rooted.
- Master of Deception reduced to three ranks, and Opportunity to two for the same effect. This has to do with Relentless Strikes moving in to this tier; 15 points in one tier would be a bit much.
- Wrongfully Accused removed, replaced with Filthy Tricks: Reduces the cooldown of your Tricks of the Trade and Distract abilities by 5/10 sec. I can't really see the value in this, honestly; ToT costs energy and is a relatively small and short damage increase, and I don't think it'll need to be used for aggro reasons more often than once every 30 sec. Weak for such a deep talent.
- Slaughter from the Shadows now decreases the energy cost of Hemo by 1/2/3/4/5. I'm still not at all convinced Sub will be an even semi-viable PvE DPS tree, but we'll see.
- Shadow Dance redesigned, now allows the use of Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pickpocket and Disarm Trap regardless of being stealthed. Those abilities all gain a cooldown of 2 sec. Lasts 10 sec. Holy crap. I'm assuming it's still on a 2 minute cooldown, but this talent suddenly became very interesting. CP generation, stunlocking, random mid-fight Ambushes - so many possibilities.
There's a lot to digest here (and there were a few other changes on the order of reducing ranks and moving talents that I didn't mention; see the post for full details). The number one change that I'm sure I don't like, on the face of it, is Relentless Strikes. It reminds me of Tactical Mastery being moved to Prot in order to break MS/Flurry builds in BC. It's forcing many Rogues, including me, to dump points in a tree I otherwise have no desire to be in. When Blizz said that Relentless was feeling too required, I did not think they'd fix that by basically removing five of my talent points. The thing is, there's already stuff I want, as a Combat rogue, in the top end of Assassination, like Malice, Ruthlessness, and Lethality. There is nothing I'm even vaguely interested in in the top of Subtlety.
Come to think of it, that might be the point: limiting the number of talent points I have to play with. Previously, I was seriously considering going 21/50 for Cold Blood (since I'm not sure how Murder Spree is going to work out). Now that's effectively impossible; every PvE rogue is going to have at least five points in Subtlety, so the best I could do is 16/60/5. In addition to Tactical Mastery, this also remind me of the old days when we had Improved Sap, so anyone running many 5-mans was encouraged to take seven points in Sub. Overall this is a highly irritating move, and I hope it's revised. My preferred solution would be to put it in Assassination tier 2, for two points, so I could take it alongside Ruthlessness. It would still be accessible, since pretty much every rogue can get use out of 5/5 Malice in tier 1.
Filed under: Rogue, Analysis / Opinion, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Ziinaya Sep 3rd 2008 3:15PM
Shadowstep not being usable while rooted makes me a *very* happy Moonkin.
Tiforix Sep 3rd 2008 3:17PM
Shadowstep not being usable while rooted makes me a *very* happy
Moonkin.
Elmo Sep 3rd 2008 3:17PM
great, like rogues didn't already stunlock me from 100-0 they now don't need to blind+vanish to get a second cheap shot on me.
Ikarus Sep 3rd 2008 7:08PM
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree. So, if by chance, I get lucky enough to pop a rogue out of stealth before he attacks me (not an easy feat by any means) it doesn't really mater any more. He can still cheap shot me? I'm not a fan of this change...
kitteh, twilight's hammer EU Sep 3rd 2008 3:19PM
I really can't see the new shadow dance staying, the old one didn't work either (tho will all the right talents allowed a sequence of 3 ambushes in 10 seconds which is pretty omfg considering 75% crit chance on ambush).
The cry's from most classes that we get to use MORE stuns (albiet on a 2min cooldown) would have Noah running to make a new ark.
rochmoninoff Sep 3rd 2008 3:20PM
Master Poisoner & Blood Poisoning are both RAID BUFFs
(not just self buffs)
They overlap with Pally & Warrior raid buffs (this continues the raid buff/debuff move that Bliz anounced last week).
vittas Sep 3rd 2008 3:22PM
the master poisoner description you have is wrong, actually it is something like the retri pala +3% crit chance for the whole raid. Ofcourse it does not stack with the retris +3% crit.
Saelorn Sep 3rd 2008 3:42PM
And neither of those will stack with the 5% buff from feral druids or fury warriors, thus making it essentially a self-buff that only applies while soloing, or a less-desired buff for small groups.
Dawkins Sep 3rd 2008 4:01PM
@ Saelorn
No, it is a boss debuff... Like the Pally ability. It will stack with the Fury/Feral talents, because that is a raid buff.
Shanic Sep 3rd 2008 4:03PM
Actually, they DO stack with Leader of the Pack and Rampage. They are considered a debuff to increase melee crit, instead of a buff to increase melee crit. What it translates to is that every raid will have a default 8% melee crit in 25 man raids.
Saelorn Sep 3rd 2008 5:35PM
Thanks for the correction, and double thanks for everyone keeping it civil.
If this is the case, I look forward to having rogues in every raid with me.
Wussah Sep 3rd 2008 3:24PM
As a long time sub rogue, this makes me very happy as well. Minus the shadowstep thing.
Worcester Sep 3rd 2008 3:39PM
I agree. I will miss being able to get out of the occasional root, and I'm not thrilled with the change in Relentless Strikes. That's not terrible, combined with the updated MoD and Opportunity, though.
Loving the idea of Shadow Dance! I hope it makes it to the release! Personally, I'm quite happy that Sub rogues are getting some love. It's tiring being an entire class's whipping boy!
Naix Sep 3rd 2008 3:41PM
Didn't Blizzard say a fews days back that they were saving Rogue talent revamp for last?
Does this mean we are getting the new talents next week?
/hope
Elmo Sep 3rd 2008 4:12PM
unlikely, some classes didn't get a review yet or even have talents that are NYI
Axxam Sep 4th 2008 9:52AM
I hope not. Shaman talents are still a mess. If the rogues are last, then it means we remain the gimp class
Naix Sep 4th 2008 11:55AM
Shaman talents a mess?!? Are you crazy? They are spot on from what I am seeing. They have talents my rogue would die for, my priest would kill for and my mage would beg for.
Shamans are really OP now.
pudds Sep 3rd 2008 3:48PM
Yeesh. They were moving in the right direction with CoS, and now they're going backward again. Lame.
Additionally, I have to wonder if Misdirection (hunter) will be getting a buff, since Tricks of the Trade is virtually the same effect, only better.
Kidsmoke Sep 3rd 2008 3:54PM
Eh, I wish they'd release the talent builds already so I could play with it.
Honestly I'm so happy after asking for it all of BC that they are moving duel wield to 1st tier and dagger or (CQC now) to 3rd. Makes, mutilate soooo much better. Hopefully Blizzard will do the right thing and just make relentless strikes a 3 point talent instead of 5, and our trees will be pretty much perfect.
It's a little hard to stomach taking a 1 point talent for 5 now.
As far as the shadow step thing goes.... well, I wish they'd take Imp sprint and make it baseline now. Mages always complain about stunlock but I've seen my rogue get destroyed in one frostnova from a shatter combo and I have 11k health and over 400 resil.
suvlaki Sep 3rd 2008 4:01PM
10seconds off the cd of ....DISTRACT??? what? and why?
filthy tricks is very weird