Tiers: The past, present, and future of dungeon and raid sets
Classic WoW had three official raid tiers: tier 1 came from Molten Core, tier 2 from (mostly) Blackwing Lair, and tier 3 from Naxxramas. T3 is notable for a few reasons:
- It was obtained via multi-class tokens. The bosses would drop, say, the belt token for Priest, Mage, and Warlock. You'd then have to take the token, some mats dropped by Naxx trash, and some crafting mats to an NPC to get the gear. This was useful because the boss drops became more flexible: if your priests all had their belt already, you could give the token to a mage or a warlock; if it had just been a straight drop of the priest T3 belt, you'd have to disenchant it.
- T1 and T2 filled eight slots, while T3 filled nine, adding a ring. However, the highest bonus was for eight pieces, so you could choose which piece you wanted to leave out and still get the set bonus. This is continued in BC with five-piece sets, but only two- and four-piece bonuses.
- When Wrath of the Lich King goes live (or possibly when patch 3.0.2 does) you will no longer be able to acquire T3. Naxxramas is being moved from its current location up to Northrend, where it will become the entry-level raid for level 80. Those who already have T3 will get to keep it.
Of course, T1 wasn't the first tier available. There was a tier 0, also known as Dungeon Set 1, which was gotten in high-level dungeons like Stratholme and Scholomance. T0 was not class-restricted, which led to much drama with Shadow Priests taking pieces of Warlocks' Dreadmist and the like. Why would they do that? Well, at the time, item sets just didn't cater to so-called "off-specs." If you were a Priest, your set items would be for healing; if you were a Warrior, they'd be for tanking; and if you were a Druid, they'd be for healing again. It wasn't until Burning Crusade that the token system for tier gear was put in place, and an excellent move it was too.
There was also a Dungeon Set 2 in classic, also known as tier 0.5. It was obtained by upgrading your T0 pieces through questing. And that's not the only ".5"-numbered tier, either; there were generally sets that you could get through places like ZG and AQ that were labeled "tier 1.5" and "tier 2.5," but these labels always felt a bit forced to me. T0.5 makes more sense.
Moving on to BC, a few things changed, as I mentioned above.
- All tier pieces are on multi-class tokens, and for the first time one token can be turned in for multiple different pieces of gear per class. For instance, Druids have three different tier 4 sets, one for each tree.
- Tier sets are mostly five pieces, to allow for additional flexibility in gearing.
Before you get to the new tiers, of course, there's a new dungeon set, Dungeon Set 3. Like DS1/T0, these are not class-specific, though some of the set bonuses are. This so-called "tier 3.5" is gotten in the level 70 instances throughout Outland.
Tier 4 is obtained in Karazhan, Gruul's Lair, and Magtheridon's Lair. Tier 5 comes from Serpentshrine Cavern and Tempest Keep. And Tier 6 comes from Mount Hyjal and the Black Temple, with three more T6 items for each set added in the Sunwell Plateau (bringing back the eight-piece set). So much for BC.
What lies ahead in Wrath of the Lich King? Almost certainly more tier sets. Naxxramas, the first raid, has enough bosses to provide an entire tier there (as T3 was originally), so I'm going to hazard a guess that tier 7 will be acquired through multi-class tokens in Naxxramas. There will probably also be a Dungeon Set 4/tier 6.5, gotten in the level 80 instances.
However, raids in Wrath have an additional wrinkle: each will exist in a 10-man and a 25-man version. Blizzard have said that the 25-man drops will be "a full in item progression" above the 10-man ones from the same raids. If we take that literally, we come to the intriguing possibility that T7 might drop from the 10-man version of Naxx, and T8 from the 25-man version. Then when we move ahead to Ulduar, the second LK raid, we can get T8/T9 for the 10-/25-man versions.
I'm not sure that this is exactly how it will play out, though (note that we don't have any actual data on LK raid drops yet, so I'm guessing here). There are a couple snags in that scenario:
- Typically, you need gear on the level of tier (x-1) to be able to down bosses that drop tier (x). If this held, it would mean guilds would have to do Naxx-10 to be able to move on to Naxx-25, which would be problematic.
- If I did Naxx-25, Ulduar-10 would suddenly become pointless for me, at least in terms of set drops. Again, problematic.
But I'm not really sure what a better solution would be. Get rid of tier gear altogether? Caster pieces should be much more versatile now that spell power is in, so that is a potential solution. Or there could be two different versions of every tier, depending on whether it was gotten from 10- or 25-man raids, but that could get cumbersome. Naxx-10 could drop T7, Naxx-25 T7.5, Uld-10 T8, and Uld-25 T8.5 - in other words, narrow the gap between 10- and 25-mans. But then you run the risk of further irritating those who are already upset at what they see as 25-mans being deprecated.
In general, I don't understand how they're going to maintaing a tier of separation in drops between 10s and 25s, without requiring extra gear to start on 25s. It's a sticky situation, and I'm interested to see what they're going to do with it.
Are you a fan of epics? Sure you are. Perhaps you are interested in Arena Season 4, or what kind of gear you need to go to Karazhan. Or maybe you just want to check out some phat loot. Remember, as soon as we learn something concrete about tier 7 we'll let you know, so be sure and check back.
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Malkeior Sep 3rd 2008 4:36PM
This discussion is about end-game armor sets.
Meira Sep 3rd 2008 4:42PM
You kinda missed the point... as we speak of Dungeon /Tier sets, it means that every class have set equipment in the specified dungeon raids... now tell me, what is the set equivalent for mages or priests in scarlet monastery? Or the warrior set equivalent to the Blackened Defias or the Fang set? Exactly: there isn't.
vornsarth Sep 3rd 2008 4:21PM
I guess I don't really see the problem here. Personally, I'd make Naxx-25 doable in 80 dungeon blues, while giving significantly nicer rewards than the 10 man version. It would ruin the idea of a 10 *or* 25 man progression path if a character had to do the 10 man version first. It could create problems for players down the line that want to move from 10 up to 25, as the content they'd been working on would be too difficult at the higher balancing level, but this is Blizzard we are talking about -they are going to balance the entry level raid's gear requirements for the casuals.
BillDoor Sep 3rd 2008 4:21PM
Blizzard has said multiple times that the 10-man and 25-man instances in Lich King will have separate gear paths. You can get up for Naxx25 in Naxx10 if you want, but if you've got a full set of Naxx25, you're supposed to go to Ulduar25, not Ulduar10.
If you only ever run Naxx10, your gear will be just fine for running Ulduar10. There will also be at least on class of tokens, similar to the current Badges of Justice.
Borrik Sep 3rd 2008 4:21PM
Uhm... El Oh Elz... AQ40 gear had the token system as well, only you had to have idols that matched your peice. Implimented B4 Naxx token system. Credit where credit is due.
daedhir Sep 3rd 2008 4:48PM
Umm, so should we give the credit to Blizzard, or Blizzard? Tough choice, I know.
DirtyPriest Sep 4th 2008 3:05AM
I'm pretty sure ZG did this too.
Andostre Sep 3rd 2008 4:23PM
I like what WoW is currently doing with the PvP armor set bonuses, where you can have two pieces from the blue reputation gear, a piece from Season 1, and a piece from Season 2, and you'll still get the four piece set bonus because they designed the sets to interact like that.
Perhaps they're doing something similar with WotLK armor sets. For example, you could have two pieces from 10-man Naxx, and two pieces from 25-man Naxx, but the 10 and 25-man pieces would interact so that you would still get the four piece set bonus.
And then once you move on, 10-man Ulduar pieces might not replace 25-man Naxx pieces, but someone might want them anyway for the set bonuses, in case they can't pick up the equivalent 25-man piece right away.
Buddah Sep 3rd 2008 4:45PM
Not true. The Blue Rep PvP pieces do not count toward the arena season pieces' set bonus.
eclips Sep 3rd 2008 5:13PM
They stated their plans to do just that. If you are wearing 1 piece of Naxx10 gear and one from Naxx25 you'll get the 2 piece set bonus.
See: http://www.mmogamer.com/05/12/2008/behind-the-blue-curtain-tom-chilton/4
DirtyPriest Sep 4th 2008 3:08AM
Too bad PvP priest armor set bonuses are complete and utter crap. Really, Blizzard? I can Power Word: Shield myself more often? Well, at least it isn't 5 more damage on my Touch of Weakness. Oops, better not give them ideas.
Namus Sep 3rd 2008 4:28PM
Maybe the tokens for one tier are drops from several 10-man versions, not only one, and that gear upgrades will allow you to get into the 25 versions which drops the next tier tokens, so that will make necessary for raids to do both 10-man in order to attempt the more difficults raids.
Meethan Sep 3rd 2008 4:30PM
I liked the old 8 peice tier token sets with bonuses much better than the current tiers.
Next time, you should talk about what SHOULD be the upcoming raid progressions. Like IS nexus REALLY higher than Uludar?
Kaorael Sep 3rd 2008 4:32PM
I think it will be more like T7-A and T7-B, with the T7-B (25-man) closer in stats to T8-A than to T7-A. But since they will mostly share looks (with more sparkly effects on the B), you will still look like someone doing Naxx or Ulduar or whatever tier of content you're in. I think I read somewhere that both A and B versions would be part of the same set, so you can swap one for the other and keep the set bonuses.
Aigarius Sep 3rd 2008 4:32PM
25-man is harder not because it requires better gear, but because it requires coordinating 25 people. I like two ideas from here:
* 25 man versions could drop the same tear gear as 10 man versions, but more of it and with a special BoP drop that lets you upgrade you gear piece to the 'next level'
* 10 man versions could simply not drop any tier gear, just regular gear pieces.
Aldheim Sep 3rd 2008 4:54PM
Man, I hope it doesn't work like your second suggestion. Tier armor is part of the fun of the game. It would suck pretty hard if 10 man raiders (as I think I will be) didn't get that stuff.
-E
Heleth Sep 3rd 2008 4:33PM
What if the 10mans don't drop tier set gear at all, just items of the same iLvl as the next lower 25man?
Heleth Sep 3rd 2008 4:37PM
Or even better, what if the 10man dropped say 1 piece of the tier gear that will drop in the 25man, say the gloves.
Aldheim Sep 3rd 2008 4:34PM
I doubt they'd get rid of tier sets even with more broad itemization; tier sets are part of the "feel" of WoW. Warriors and Paladins, for instance, are both plate wearing dudes who will hit you with big weapons, but there is a definite difference in the aesthetic between pally armor and warrior armor. Check out the difference between the paladin and the warrior tier 4 armors to see what I mean: both are really good looking plate armors, but you instinctively know the difference in feel between the two classes based on that look. I doubt they'd get rid of that.
-E
Khalis Sep 3rd 2008 4:35PM
They could just put D4 set in 5 mans, D5 in Naxx10, D6 in Uld10. that would free them up to put T7 in Naxx25, and T8 in Uld25. The 10 mans should be closer in gear to 5s than 25s in my opinion any way. Badge vending machines for 25 man raiders.