Warrior Update Incoming
by Matthew Rossi 
Sep 3rd 2008 at 10:30AM
Blue poster Gamnin posted to the warrior forums a list of changes that either came in on the last patch or which are intended for an upcoming patch. Later in the thread he posted to answer questions and clarify a few things. We can assume that we will be seeing the effects of all this when patch 3.0 goes live. Now, some of these changes are at least potentially very nice... I especially like where the designers are going with the talent Vigilance. I've always believed that warriors should have a form of threat transfer, so getting 10% of target threat with this ability is definitely a step in the right direction. Other changes, such as the ability Warbringer in the prot tree (the ability to charge in combat that's had us all scratching our heads) don't do much for me. Since it's only usable in Battle Stance, you still have to risk stance dancing over, losing a huge chunk of your rage, getting back some rage from the charge and then dumping most of it to switch back to defensive again... it's just an odd ability right now, very deep in prot for a minimal benefit. If you could use charge in defensive, then I'd be more exacted about it, but Gamnin confirmed in his clarification that they intended the current design and don't want charge used in defensive stance.
Arms had the new armor penetration effect of mace spec highlighted (totally on the fence about this, no idea if it's good or not), while Fury's big changes are the removal of the cooldown component of Improved Whirlwind (which is bad, in my opinion, Imp Whirlwind was used to make the ability more friendly to damage rotations, but with the greater number of possible abilities that's no longer as crucial) and the note that they believe Titan's Grip still needs a counterbalance but they haven't decided on one yet.
I'll admit to being mildly underwhelmed: I really feel like Prot has given away most of its best abilities to other classes (Last Stand, Shield Wall, Shield Slam) and hasn't gotten much of anything. The reworking of Enraged Assault to either include or become Enraged Regeneration is a nice step. but if we're going to have parity between tanking classes, then all four tanks need to be able to do the same jobs and that means more love to the prot tree, in my opinion. But go check it out for yourselves, you may love what you see.
Filed under: Warrior, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Tyler Sep 3rd 2008 10:41AM
Woohoo! Warrior Titan's Grip nerf!
I knew it couldn't possibly go to live like that, but on the other hand some changes in the past shouldn't have happened. Oh well, for now I can celebrate.
Xtek Sep 3rd 2008 10:56AM
Though it may look like a titan's grip nerf... look very carefully. They're boosting the DPS of WW by 20% and WW is the primary DPS ability with Titan's Grip... doing 20% more damage while WWing with 2, 2-handed weapins is going to be a lot of damage.
Armon Sep 4th 2008 7:31PM
titan grip needs no nerf, it is only 10% more stats than a 1h, if they use the speed debuff again, warriors are rage starved, the only thing blizz really can do is take some of the offhand damage off and then its not worth a 51 point talent at all. titan grip is fine, arms is doing more DPS than fury ATM, nurf arms, buff fury, and for the love of god GIVE WARRIORS UNIQUE UTILITY!
andyjay220 Sep 3rd 2008 10:42AM
I like this new idea for tanks. With Vigilance and Hand of Salvation tanks have an active way of dealing with "aggro whores". I sort of wish Hand of Salv. still caused the damage penalty (not the healing though) so I could PUNISH those terrible, terrible ppl and make them afraid to pass me at the expense of their precious damage meter mwhahahahaha!!!!!
Okay sorry....I'm done.
Jewbanks Sep 3rd 2008 10:48AM
it looks like vigilance is just a flat threat reduction and not a threat transfer.
Matthew Rossi Sep 3rd 2008 1:44PM
Right now, yes, but Gamnin made a point of highlighting that there would be a 10% threat transfer component.
Memzer Sep 3rd 2008 10:52AM
I've got to agree that the protection warrior is looking pretty lack-lustre when compared to the Deathknight and Paladin classes.
Pretty sure that Paladins will be taking the crown (at least initially) for tanking in Naxxramas given the percentage of undead in the instance. After Naxx who knows, it'll be interesting to see how it all works out :)
Rallik Sep 3rd 2008 11:06AM
I'm mostly annoyed with why they don't rework Revenge to have more synergy with the new shield block. Revenge is effective because it's up when we need it as part of our rotation, mostly due to the old shield block. I'd much rather see Revenge reworked into an ability that returns incoming blocked attacks (though with lower damage than an actual parry). That way the new shield block could be used to increase the effectiveness of returned attacks in an AoE scenario, or as a mini-shield wall if Very Bad Things are about to happen in a boss fight. The added SBV to Shield Slam is gravy.
Having Revenge and Shield Slam on the same cooldown is an interesting idea. You could use Revenge for AoE tanking, or Shield Slam during the Shield Block twice for large single-target threat.
Al Sep 3rd 2008 11:12AM
Wait did they take away the skill again in the Prot tree that gives 2 rage every time you dodge or parry? I thought I saw that in an earlier Wrath calculator.
dan Sep 3rd 2008 1:36PM
They moved it to the arms tree and renamed it "Justified Killing."
Al Sep 3rd 2008 1:47PM
Great, so now Prot Warriors will still remain rage starved in most situations. They also were going to give 2 rage every time a block occurred, now its back to 1 again.
/sigh
Reno Sep 3rd 2008 11:19AM
Overall, interesting changes.
I still like the idea of taking prot to a more annoying style with fight control skills.
Oh but it still seems like that class needs some work around balance.Nerfs here but buffs there, etc.
I just dont want them to be some crazy stuff again with their high warrior egos.Kalgans loved ones.
souvlaki Sep 3rd 2008 11:17AM
About the charge, i see where they going, but they should take a step further. They should only leave charge, and remove Intercept and Intervene. It should be usable from all stances and make it use 0 rage out of combat and 10 rage (or something along this lines) while in combat.
Stance dancing is one of the worst trade off I can imagine of all the classes I've played, and reducing the abilitities for which we should stancedance for should be the way to improve warriors (or reduce the rage penalty when doing it).
Anyway, Charge is a skippable talent which will not be requiered for tanking. I'm more bothered about having to spend 18 talent points in Arms in order to maximize my rage generation (I'm talking about Justified Killing).
arcady0 Sep 3rd 2008 12:44PM
I'm still concerned that warriors won't have an answer to paladin AoE tanking. If they're putting in parity across the classes, that needs to be addressed as well.
If we go from guilds raid-sidelining tankadins to guilds raid-sidelining warriors we haven't really solved anything.
Shinken Sep 3rd 2008 12:04PM
Every xpac , you are guaranteed.
Perfect itemization.
Boss fights built around your class. Highest DPS of a hybrid class.
2-3 legendary weapons
Best MT
Best arena dps.
You will always will be on top, chill out
Manatank Sep 3rd 2008 12:09PM
"I really feel like Prot has given away most of its best abilities to other classes (Last Stand, Shield Wall, Shield Slam) and hasn't gotten much of anything."
What's the point of making the other classes just as viable for main tanking duties if they are just going to make warriors even better? They were already good enough, and now they want to just beef up their DPS and give them a few more utility/aoe tanking options to bring them up to par with paladins and druids.
The design goal is to make all the tanks viable. Sorry warriors your days as uncontested main tanking is over. You will continue to be main tank if you are the best and/or most reliable player, but not based on gimicks of your class.
Lyon Sep 3rd 2008 12:45PM
Either you don't MT or you have a dislike for Prot warriors. All classes that tank atm are viable MT's. Anyone making the statement that they aren't, don't know what they're talking about. I lead raids and have at least one of each tank in my runs. Each atm is unique and having all in raids is important.
The only thing that made Prot warriors very unique is the reliable ability to push crushing blows off the table. Even without the Xpac elimanting this alone would make us not as advantageous as the other two classes. We do have atm have a few other things as mentioned in the article as that others do not, BUT those talents don't stop the other two classes from being a MT now.
In Beta, they have given other two classes talents that prot warriors have had but made them even better. A SS(paladins) that cannot be block, parried, or dodged because its considered a holy dmg spell besides that it ignores all armor. And whose mechanics are based as ours are on STR and SBV but also get a spell dmg component based on their stamina. So stacking stam gives them more threat. Or a LS (ferals) that not only gives a 30% hp but also is 12 secs of not being able to be stunned or CC'd in anyway.
And if you read the Beta, all prot warriors are asking to do is give us similar tools. Did they take the AoE tanking title away from Paladins; no. Or the flexibility to ferals; no. So yes we can all MT but that was all a Prot warrior was brought for. Now, why bring one when your MT can AoE tank also. Frees up a slot for another dps'r and allows for quicker kills. Again they only made parity in the MT function not all the other tanking functions and this doesn't even include the unique buffs that those classes provide that prot warriors just don't.
And one last thing, don't give the skill argument BS. That now skill ppl will get a raid slot. Skilled ppl always find a way to rise to the top and get spots to raid. Funny thing, skilled ppl tend to figure out who the other skilled ppl are and group with them. And this won't get rid of min/maxing. That's so sophomoric an argument that it doesn't even deserve a response. Number crunchers will find the best specs for the raids coming and those that fill those numbers will be invited. Stop hating prot warriors.
Manatank Sep 3rd 2008 1:57PM
Okay, I admit that even currently the three tanking classes are very well suited for most things. The only thing lacking from the non-warriors are oh-crap buttons like last stand and shield wall (the exact abilities I and the article were referring to). These abilities are what lead many raids to stick to warriors for progression content currently because they help prevent wipes.
This advantage to warrior main tanking is going away. Now there is no huge reason to favor them other than the skill and reliability of the player. They aren't worse at main tanking, but they just aren't better in general. There are still differences between the tanks that will make one class better than another in gimick fights and special situations.
Shockwave and the changes to thunder clap are part of the attempt blizzard is making to allow warriors to have an easier time at AoE tanking (some changes to druids are helping them with this as well). This is great from my perspective. If druids and paladins get to main tank with similar abilities, then warriors should get similar utility in other aspects of tanking. Each class should have its flavor, but no one class should be absolutely required for anything. Maybe paladins will be better at tanking large groups, but the other tanking classes should be able to be used if a paladin isn't around.
My whole point was that giving warriors more abilities for main tanking duties would defeat the design goal that Blizzard is embracing of making all the classes viable. If they give warriors more for main tanking then they will have to give more to paladins, druids and death knights. On the other hand, I'm all for prot warriors getting more buffs in AoE tanking and other utility sort of abilities. The more tanks the better in my opinion.
Manatank Sep 3rd 2008 2:02PM
Oh yeah, and one other thing...
"The only thing that made Prot warriors very unique is the reliable ability to push crushing blows off the table."
Currently paladins are able to more reliably push crushing blows off the table than warriors are. We have 8 charges of holy shield, so we stay uncrushable even against fast hitting mobs. This was actually one of the strengths of the class.
Matthew Rossi Sep 3rd 2008 2:52PM
I don't think you understand. At present, in the Beta, paladins can do everything a warrior can do as well as a warrior can, or better, and can AoE tank much, much better. There's no comparison. They provide equivalent or superior MT, better trash tanking by miles, buffs out the wazoo (including a Blessing of Sanctuary so good as to be nearly impossible to believe) and can even step back and heal on single tank fights if you have a couple of paladin tanks. (Just as on bosses like Najentus they can do so now.)
In the face of all of this, warriors need adjustment. Shockwave does not help with AoE tanking as it should because it stuns the mobs, preventing the warrior from gaining rage, it can only be used every 20 seconds, and the high threat it should be generating is minimized by its being on such a long cooldown with that stun. Thunder Clap is on a longer cooldown in beta. Incite, an ability that should help with AoE threat is minimized by the TC cooldown issue, and Cleave is a rage hog that still only hits two mobs.
Warriors are now equivalent in one aspect of tanking, having given away all of our abilities that gave us an edge in boss tanking, and having gotten nothing at all that helps with any other aspect of tanking. If Paladins should be just as good at main tanking, then warriors should be JUST AS GOOD at AoE tanking. Not almost as good. Not nearly as good. Not "paladins are still better but a warrior can do it" good. Warriors MUST be absolutely as good at AoE tanking as paladins, or paladins MUST be not as good at single target tanking, or the entire stated goal of "no tank is necessary" goes out the window. And right now, warriors aren't the best at anything, and aren't just as good at anything.
I hope it changes, but if it doesn't, there is no reason to bring a warrior to tank in Wrath.