Should your GM be able to tax you?
by Allison Robert 
Sep 5th 2008 at 9:00AM
This idea's been floated before, but a few people on the forums have responded pretty enthusiastically to the notion of introducing a "guild income tax." Others...not so much so. Basically, there was a proposal made in the Beta forums that Blizzard give GM's/officers the ability to levy a percentage-based tax on members' earnings. Jeff "Tigole" Kaplan responded, saying that it "was an interesting idea" and they're considering options for improving guild administration, but there was no way they could program a change like this in time for Wrath. Bear in mind that the original tax being suggested would apply to your toon both inside and out of raids (although no one was seriously suggesting that the tax should apply to non-raiding members of the guild).I have to admit that I'm not too keen on the idea of a broad-based "income tax" on players, if only because the game's current mechanics make it all but certain that the main beneficiaries will be people who either can't (due to class/spec) or won't put much gold into the guild coffers. Moreover, the taxation idea acts as an incentive for people not to guild their alts, thus avoiding taxation entirely on toons that are usually the real means of support for a raiding main (someone remind me to go reserve a hunter named Swissbank). As an herbalist/alchemist, I farm a lot for friends and have been known to chuck the guild bank a few hundred gold from time to time. Maybe I'd save time and money under a system that required me to hand over 2-3% of my income, but still. Being taxed removes an element of individual responsibility, and it certainly takes away the nice feeling you have for voluntarily helping others.
If nothing else the idea's given rise to a few nice jokes (Cacora of Hellscream: "Do I get money back at the end of the year if I claim multiple alts as dependents?"), but the final word may well belong to Grig from Whisperwind: "So, Blizzard is considering taking one of the most universally loathed concepts from real life and adding it to a game. Why, they'd be silly not to do it."
Filed under: Herbalism, Alchemy, Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Economy, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Shalorra Sep 5th 2008 9:07AM
Playing Devil's Advocate I do think there should be some sort of incentive for Guild Officers and Guild Masters. It's a thankless task and the amount of effort put in by the good ones is extraordinary - and it's one of the things that keeps Blizzard's coffers full.
I don't know what the answer is - it could be something simple like a vanity mount for GM's, or maybe something like a discount on repairs for GM's.
The point is that there is no tangible reward - and an awful lot of heartache.
Barth Sep 5th 2008 9:36AM
Thankless or not, they do it because they want to. They want to be in charge, they want to make the decisions, they want to lead. They want the extra work... or they wouldn't do it in the first place. I don't think a guild tax should be used to "reward" the GMs at all, but rather be used to fund consumable purchases/creation to help the guild overall.
Guilds should be able to do this.. why not? No one is forced to stay in the guild if they don't like the tax system that is in place. If it's worth it to them to stay in, they will... if not they can leave.
Zali Sep 5th 2008 9:42AM
The reward is that the GL sets the tone of the guild in such a way that they are able to accomplish things within the game that suit them... and through marketing their particular in game preferences to other players, they are able to secure a group of likeminded players to help them reach their own personal goals.
Yes, it is a lot of hard work... but the payoff (if you are a good leader) is that you will get where you want to go in the game because you are at the wheel.
Menglor Sep 5th 2008 10:05AM
I would expect the tax amount would be set based on Rank, so there would be a raiding rank, so that Alts wouldnt be subjected to that kind of tax.
because no one would have their AH mule in the guild.
which in itself, istn a bad thing, if your into making money , and people know who your AH alt is, they would ask for a better price :)
jonoh Sep 5th 2008 2:19PM
well u shouldnt reward all GM's as many good ones that are out there, there are way more bad ones. ppl who do nothing for the guild and dont help do anything for non-raiding members. the little guys need more help than anyone....lol the point is that there are many GM's that get that power trip.
Ilnara Sep 5th 2008 12:11PM
I agree, but taxation is a wholly ignorant way to give incentive to guild leaders, and guilds to be guilds.
Maybe blizzard should revamp the guild system so that there is some incentive to being in one, instead of the way it is now, where there is no incentive to remain loyal to guilds past the point that you get the gear you want.
It's their game design that did this, not a lack of being able to tax guild members for whatever reason there may be to do so.
ironside Sep 5th 2008 10:00PM
They already do, it's called the G-Bank, who do you think walks away with all that shit 90% of the time when the eventual g-disband happens?
papercut Sep 5th 2008 9:08AM
In theory the ideas is solid, but I doubt it will work, there are too many variables to consider. I think people who contribute to the guild bank, have a stake in the guild bank of equal value to their contribution. I say let people decide for themselves if they want to contribute or not.
Devius Sep 5th 2008 9:11AM
A % of the total gold made in raids should go to the guild. Other than that it's stupid to have tax when a guild member is not raiding.
howellgerald Sep 5th 2008 9:14AM
One of the responses kinda alluded to this. Maybe it should be an option...Only tax instances/raids? *shrug*
Ashvoyager Sep 5th 2008 9:11AM
The guild that I'm in has over 21,000 gold in the vault and enough mats to make another 21,000 gold at the very minimum. Income tax? Hah.
howellgerald Sep 5th 2008 9:12AM
I think it is a good idea. It is just an option for guilds who are trying to raise money for whatever.
Justin Sep 5th 2008 9:13AM
I think if you could make it an opt-in system, it could go really well. Players could chose a percentage of earnings that could go into the vault automatically. Also, doing it that way the GM could make a banking alt that has a 99% tax to itself opted in, and all trading/ah whoring profit would go straight into the bank.
Rihlsul Sep 5th 2008 9:30AM
Now that's not a bad notion! GM could setup voluntary tax rate and if members accept it by opting in, they get the convenience of auto-donation.
If they make opt-in reset when tax rate changes, then that's plenty give/take between members and leadership.
Trashy Sep 5th 2008 9:17AM
Next up,
Ogrimmar charging taxes, Dwarves claiming an Ironforge entree fee. Gnomes and Goblins giving a 30 day money back guarantee on tinkered items.
Ben F. (Hagios - Runetotem) Sep 5th 2008 9:17AM
Gamemasters have a history of just running with everything when they eventually get burned out. Some Gamemasters abuse the banks already. No i do not think this would be a good idea. Plus so many guilds give responsibilities for farming already, I mean hey so this week yoru task is to provide the guild with 10 superior mana oil. Do it or you won't raid. Anyhow just a few of my rants.
Baalrog Sep 5th 2008 9:19AM
Anarchy Online has had this for years. Instead of an auction house, the larger guilds had player cities that housed player shops. The guild president could specify what percentage was taken to maintain the player city coffers (usually 1-5% of each sale). There was also a minimal guild tax (think 1s to 10s) that would automatically be deducted for every hour played. If you couldn't pay your tax, you couldn't talk in guild chat until you were paid up. If your player city bank ran out of credits, your city's cloaking shield was lowered and you could be attacked by aliens.
No one really minded the tax as they were just part of the game. If you didn't want to pay the guild percentage you could always shout over the trade channels. I see the same thing with WoW and the auction house only the guild doesn't get the percentage.
dan Sep 5th 2008 11:40AM
More trade channel spam? No thanks.
People assume too much about GMs and their effect on their guilds. I've been a gm, I've been an officer, I've been a class leader, I've been a raid leader and I can tell you that it's a team effort. Your gm is not always the person most responsible for your guilds success. Sometimes they're just the person that paid the gold for a charter and that's it. Why should that person get more than the person that recruits new players when you're in a slump? Or the calm and strategic voice that gets your players over brickwall boss encounters? Or hell even the non-officer type player that everyone (officers alike) turns too for community problem solving?
ven Sep 5th 2008 9:21AM
while i agree that gm/officers should get some sort of reward, a tax is a big mistake.
just recently wowinsider had an article about nasty gm's taking everything.
and from my experiences a "good" gm doesnt struggle too much on getting ppl to add gold/items to teh guild bank. it might not be overnite, but most players will help/respect their guild and officers and at least give a little. The GM(and/or officers) imo need to earn that respect of players before demanding anything tho. There are a TON of guilds out there and i'm not gonna dump gold into something thats gonna end in a month or 2.
I support a vanity pet or something like that, but thats it.
GM's need to realize that most of them arent as "good" or "cool" as they think they are.
Milktub Sep 5th 2008 9:20AM
If guilds were large, faceless groups, yes. That's what a nation-state is. I don't know my fellow citizens, and they don't know me, so to keep a semi-level funding of our central government, there needs to be an anonymous method of payment.
However, guilds are not bloated, anonymous groups. If they need funding, a "group dues" sort of method works just fine, with exemptions passed out by the leaders as they see fit.