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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsShould your GM be able to tax you?
by Allison Robert 
Sep 5th 2008 at 9:00AM
This idea's been floated before, but a few people on the forums have responded pretty enthusiastically to the notion of introducing a "guild income tax." Others...not so much so. Basically, there was a proposal made in the Beta forums that Blizzard give GM's/officers the ability to levy a percentage-based tax on members' earnings. Jeff "Tigole" Kaplan responded, saying that it "was an interesting idea" and they're considering options for improving guild administration, but there was no way they could program a change like this in time for Wrath. Bear in mind that the original tax being suggested would apply to your toon both inside and out of raids (although no one was seriously suggesting that the tax should apply to non-raiding members of the guild).I have to admit that I'm not too keen on the idea of a broad-based "income tax" on players, if only because the game's current mechanics make it all but certain that the main beneficiaries will be people who either can't (due to class/spec) or won't put much gold into the guild coffers. Moreover, the taxation idea acts as an incentive for people not to guild their alts, thus avoiding taxation entirely on toons that are usually the real means of support for a raiding main (someone remind me to go reserve a hunter named Swissbank). As an herbalist/alchemist, I farm a lot for friends and have been known to chuck the guild bank a few hundred gold from time to time. Maybe I'd save time and money under a system that required me to hand over 2-3% of my income, but still. Being taxed removes an element of individual responsibility, and it certainly takes away the nice feeling you have for voluntarily helping others.
If nothing else the idea's given rise to a few nice jokes (Cacora of Hellscream: "Do I get money back at the end of the year if I claim multiple alts as dependents?"), but the final word may well belong to Grig from Whisperwind: "So, Blizzard is considering taking one of the most universally loathed concepts from real life and adding it to a game. Why, they'd be silly not to do it."
Filed under: Herbalism, Alchemy, Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Economy, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 5)
Kothmia Sep 5th 2008 9:38AM
If they implement it, i doubt we'd use it. We're a happy being a small guild. We do most everything by donation. If you want to give to the guild bank, great. if not, that's ok too. If we notice that you're taking a lot and not giving back... We'll talk to you. If it doesn't change, and we think it's still lopsided, we'll demote you, and remove your access. Problem solved.
Most of us came from a larger "Old guild" on the our server. It claims to be the "oldest continual alliance guild" on the server. The GM over there first instituted 1G/lvl "dues" on the officers. It's since expanded to "everyone" but no one pays it. I remember the GM making the comment when he first rolled out the concept, that when the bank hit 5k, he was taking the G to buy his epic flyer. (Still can't wait for this to happen)
But for us, it's not something that we'd use. We like having minimal drama, and I like letting folks contribute either in mats or gold or items as they see fit. If they're getting a lot out of the guild, then they tend to put more back into it.
sephirah Sep 5th 2008 9:38AM
So I should give gold to a guild where
- I have to bring to raids all the consumable I need
- I have to pay for my respec
- I'm unable to access guild bank tabs reserved to officers (usually the only ones containing useful stuff)
and where there's the risk
- of being gkicked for bizarre reasons
- of finding the guild bank empty after the GM jump to another server and/or is hacked
Hmm, I'll think about it, I'll let you know...
William Sep 5th 2008 9:45AM
you need a new guild?
sephirah Sep 5th 2008 10:09AM
No, I just made cut & paste from a random Guild Watch... :)
sharkeater75 Sep 5th 2008 9:43AM
/gquit
Bulk Sep 5th 2008 9:58AM
This is slightly off topic, but I always thought it would be cool if you could get a loan from the bank (say up to a maximum of 5k, so you can get your epic flyer). Then the bank would automatically collect repayments as a percentage of your gold income - they could even charge interest!
Wolftech Sep 5th 2008 9:46AM
Gee... I already pay for all my own raiding supplies, my own repairs as well as always having my professions available for any guild member who needs them and now some idiot wants to tax me as well?
Must be a Democrat.
sharkeater75 Sep 5th 2008 9:49AM
wolfie, i'm a lib and ya spoke no truer words.
I'm an officer and do all of the above and like my guild. but if they were to tax what "I" do. we would have a problem.
another reason kaglan needs a swift kick in the ass.
Trem Sep 5th 2008 9:48AM
If they do want to implement something to help guilds with funding one of the following would be OK.
1. Let the players opt-in to automatically donate a percentage of their choosing to the guild.
2. Make a change so that our AH fees go to our GB.
Either one of those would be fine with me.
William Sep 5th 2008 9:48AM
I'm in a guild where my fellow officers all know the guild leader from real life (he's my brother) and so getting money in the guild bank isn't very hard. With over 100 guild members (I know it's over 100, not sure if we've hit 200 yet) I know some of the people probably would wonder what the point is, when all the higher level people as well as the officers already take care of the guild bank. In other words, in our case we'd be asking "Why fix something that isn't broken?"
Mutanee Sep 5th 2008 9:51AM
To be very honest, I come prepared to raid, I bring whatever consumables Im going to need, and I dont contribute anything to the Guild Bank anymore. Twice now GM's have ninja'd the GB and run off, demoting everyone and logging. My current GM does nothing for the guild, infact, its someone that is second on the chain that runs it all... GM needs something in return for having the ability to boot people he simply doesn't like? That will be the day...
Sleepy Sep 5th 2008 9:54AM
What is the guild bank for?
If your guild is a small, friendly, non-raiding bunch of people, you will use it to share your unwanted green drops, surplus reputation items, whatever. So it is just a place to store items too valuable to vendor but not too valuable to bother AH-ing, etc. (like my mum says: "It will be useful later for something...", and you realize after 20 years, that it was not.) In this case guild tax does not make too much sense.
If you are in a HC raiding guild, guild bank is for storing epic stuff, and gold for repairs. If you take a closer look, just consider one MH run. You got items from bosses (Void crystals after a few run..), receipes, BoE epics, and tons of epic gems as well. Even if you give anybody 2-3 gems for all of his new loot to socket, and enchant the gear as well, after a while you will end up with hundreds of unused epic gems, void crystals etc. in the guild bank. Sell 2-3 gems and a couple of void a week in AH, and all your costs are covered for a weeks raiding including repair, food, flask, potions and other consumables. It is much better since everybody was there when your guild got its hands on this loot, and nobody will ask a def warrior to put in 200g in form of any tax, when his repair bill is huge while in the meantime a hunter got a 10g bill.
If you are in a guild, especially in a raiding guild, and you actually reached something, you do not need tax to be financially sorted. On the other hand, i think you've never heard about GM transfering with the GB in a SERIOUS raiding guild. Pointless to mention the guilds made up by wannabe brainless kiddos.
I am against the tax.
VSUReaper Sep 5th 2008 9:55AM
I personally am against this idea. As a tank for a raiding guild (whos rules stipulate that I must support 80% of my own repairs) I farm gold just to keep my gear fixed and a steady supply of consumables flowing in for progression nights.
On the other hand, my farming alt will go out with guildies and farm primals or whatever else is needed, and anything that drops during that time is sold via vendor or AH and all profits go to the guild. I dont mind donating a few (10?) gold every week, but to have a 2-3% of everything I bring in sent to a guild bank? Psht, hell no.
If they did implement this, what you would see is everyone rolling a guildless farmer, and their main would never farm anything.
Elrof Sep 5th 2008 11:08AM
Guild masters can pretty well do what they wants, as long as the guild members put up with it. I've been in a guild that levied a tax monthly, but members could use the guild bank to pay for repairs. Paying a salary to the gm...would depend on how beneficial the gm is ( does he play often, does he help members, etc). A lot of guilds that raid take all of the greens and unwanted better gear and de's it and places the mats in the guild bank. Members can request these mats when it comes time to enchant their gear. I prefer guilds that do this type of thing, to the guilds that demand you raid x number of hours a week or where the gm feels its his/her right to scream and belittle members. Again, it is what you, as a guild member, are willing to put up with.
VSUReaper Sep 5th 2008 9:57AM
Jeez.... the gold-farmers are even infecting us here.... :(
NoToTaxation Sep 5th 2008 10:11AM
Why not have the ability for guild banks to earn interest on the money in the guild bank.
Also if they did implement this audacious idea, couldn't a player just transfer all of its gold to an alt not in the guild before the "Tax" was taken.
I honestly would be guildless if our guild started doing this.
Brendan Sep 5th 2008 10:26AM
If WoW had a more serious economy this might be a cool addition - EVE Online has optional taxation features for corporation members, so that your income from missions and bounties can be taxed, but that's a game with a more legit economy. Still it's a cool idea for a feature.
dave Sep 5th 2008 10:18AM
The biggest reason why this is a bad idea is that every guild will have a different idea of what the proper way to tax is (just like in real life). Some will want a flat tax, others a progressive rate. Some will want to tax alt, other not. Some will want opt-in, some mandatory...
If you think this is a good idea for your guild: just impose it now, tell everyone to put x% of their income into the guild bank. Some people will cheat and not do it. You can kick them out if you want to...
Gimmlette Sep 5th 2008 10:20AM
As the leader of a small, casual raiding guild, I'd never implement a tax to members. Three weeks ago, we earned enough through sales and donations to purchase tab 5. We had exactly 4g left when I bought it. The bank officer and I sorted and rearranged and have received rave comments from members who can now find things. In that 3 weeks time, they have responded by stuffing the bank full and donating gold to where we are approaching 350g. We're having a bank "End of Summer Sale" to clear things out. Monday, the bank officer is removing half of the items so we can start anew. The generosity of my members just boggles my mind.
I would not join a guild where "dues" or "taxes" were collected. I have personally contributed over 3k gold to getting this guild up and running, money I would happily spend again because I like the people and the direction we're going. I have to think, based on the largess of members, they like it too.
I think this is a slippery slope on which to tread. From my POV, WOW shouldn't represent the real world. Some things such as this idea, just don't belong in this game. The implementation of a "tax" would just, to my mind, encourage more people to approach gold farmers. If someone wanted to stay in an endgame raiding guild but couldn't meet the "tax" or "dues", they may be very tempted to approach the gold seller who posted here.
I would love to have 10k in our guild bank with the idea that selling half our stock would yield a comparable amount. I have guild members struggling to grind out the last 200g for a flying mount. I'd happily buy it for them. We complain about Haris Pilton and her bags and how Blizzard looks for ways to remove us from our cash and then this is proposed. If it gets implemented, it will be a great recruiting tool for us. "Come join us and DON'T pay a tax."
h8rain Sep 5th 2008 10:28AM
Instead of a "tax" per say, have the option to have a "Guild bank" looter for raids.
Example:
10 man raid. A mob drops 11g which would normally be split between 10 players. With the "Guild looter" on, the 11g would be split 11 ways with the 11th going straight into the guild bank.
So no one is actually being taxed (well still kinda), but a portion is being auto transferred.