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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsShould your GM be able to tax you?
by Allison Robert 
Sep 5th 2008 at 9:00AM
This idea's been floated before, but a few people on the forums have responded pretty enthusiastically to the notion of introducing a "guild income tax." Others...not so much so. Basically, there was a proposal made in the Beta forums that Blizzard give GM's/officers the ability to levy a percentage-based tax on members' earnings. Jeff "Tigole" Kaplan responded, saying that it "was an interesting idea" and they're considering options for improving guild administration, but there was no way they could program a change like this in time for Wrath. Bear in mind that the original tax being suggested would apply to your toon both inside and out of raids (although no one was seriously suggesting that the tax should apply to non-raiding members of the guild).I have to admit that I'm not too keen on the idea of a broad-based "income tax" on players, if only because the game's current mechanics make it all but certain that the main beneficiaries will be people who either can't (due to class/spec) or won't put much gold into the guild coffers. Moreover, the taxation idea acts as an incentive for people not to guild their alts, thus avoiding taxation entirely on toons that are usually the real means of support for a raiding main (someone remind me to go reserve a hunter named Swissbank). As an herbalist/alchemist, I farm a lot for friends and have been known to chuck the guild bank a few hundred gold from time to time. Maybe I'd save time and money under a system that required me to hand over 2-3% of my income, but still. Being taxed removes an element of individual responsibility, and it certainly takes away the nice feeling you have for voluntarily helping others.
If nothing else the idea's given rise to a few nice jokes (Cacora of Hellscream: "Do I get money back at the end of the year if I claim multiple alts as dependents?"), but the final word may well belong to Grig from Whisperwind: "So, Blizzard is considering taking one of the most universally loathed concepts from real life and adding it to a game. Why, they'd be silly not to do it."
Filed under: Herbalism, Alchemy, Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Economy, Making money
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 5)
gliterhammer Sep 5th 2008 10:32AM
Let's be clear about this....
We all play a fantasy game.
The definition of fantasy is "an idea (game) with no basis in reality"
Why the F**k would I want to play a game that imposes a system of taxation on something that doesn't really exist?
If you can't help your fellow humans in a fantasy game let alone in RL then I guess you know which way you're heading upon death.
Screw taxes.
johnnyc Sep 5th 2008 10:32AM
As long as it's optional, I see no problem with it. As a GM, I would never choose to impose a tax, though I might be one of the lucky few who has a guild full of generous people who contribute consistently.
If a GM imposes a tax and people leave, so be it. It was a risk and he/she took it.
rika13 Sep 5th 2008 10:33AM
this can be VERY problematic on a low pop server
take Drak'Thul-US (my server) as an example:
there are only 5 or 6 Horde side guilds and 4 or 5 Alliance that have downed anything in BT, now some of these guilds are going to need bodies, but it'll bite them in the butt if they start wanting to tax players (my guild, Ænigma only raids _officially_ 3 nights a week as we have jobs and such, our MT doesnt scream about repair costs, our bank has exactly 1337g, and people have consumables)
alex Sep 5th 2008 5:38PM
EVE online has a tax in the game for their "Guild" system called corporations. I think the hardest thing about implementing a tax system in WoW would be the fact that it does not already exist and so alot of players would QQ about it since they already donate to their guild banks anyway. Also the problem lies not in the fact that taxes are available but that SOMEONE SOMEWHERE is going to abuse it, with so many players some Guild is going to be the first to implement a 25% tax and consider a "salary" for officers which is ideally not what its for.
I see alot of good potential for taxes and the success really lies in the hands of the one managing the tax income, JUST LIKE IRL!
D.O.T. Sep 5th 2008 11:32AM
I could see where it could be useful, but there’s too many variables that would ruin it. Given the nature that most human beings are pretty selfish when playing behind an assumed named, there’s going to be a lot of people abusing the system. Oh, I’m quite sure there’s some decent people out there, but they seem like an endangered species.
I was brought up to take care of things myself which means that if I have to go on a raid or a run I’m not only ON TIME!, but I have my gear fixed and my consumables ready - I’m usually there 30 minutes before the thing even starts. I don’t afk longer than I have to on assigned 5 minute breaks, and I listen to instruction to the raid leader. And I will donate items I think people need by putting them into the guild bank. (USEFUL items, I have to add. Not the kind that are clearly token drops that would have been better sold to the vendor)
So on top of this, I’m going to have my money skimmed by some mechanic in the game to feed a guild bank that’s either too bloated and doesn’t need it or a guild bank where no one bothers to help out its members?
If there was some way to prevent the abuse of the system, I might have been interested. I may be jaded because of all the guild drama I’ve been put through, but I rather be a tight ass with my wallet then feed someone else’s coffers.
MechChef Sep 5th 2008 11:40AM
If you pull money directly out of people's pockets, they're going to be pissed off.
Barnister Sep 5th 2008 11:40AM
Taxes? No thank's I'll be /gquit-ing before you can say "WTF?".
If I want to invest in my guild should be up to me, and not someone else.
sarah Sep 5th 2008 11:51AM
i'd also like to open a savings account while in the bank too, please. i make interest on my bells (gold) in animal crossing, a world where my neighbors are animals who send me letters about their workout routines and cooking adventures. why can't i do it in wow?
Solex Sep 5th 2008 1:17PM
In my current guild (which I hate) our gm has us pay the guild bank (him) 100g per epic gem and 500g per sunmote. In the mean time, he's sporting some nice new gloves of immortal dusk courtesy of 5 free sunmotes from the bank and uses it regularly to pay for his repairs. So from my point of view... I go in every night, I flask up and use my food with my own money, pay for my own repairs, do the obligatory loot drama then grab my gear then I have to pay for the gems to gem my own gear... So to answer the question, no I don't think its right to tax your guild.
DruidGnome Sep 5th 2008 11:57AM
I think the option to allow me to choose a self-imposed tax to the guild would be awesome, but I'd personally leave a guild that mandated me paying a tax.
Mike Sep 5th 2008 1:40PM
They made a mistake in calling it a 'tax'. Call it a donation if you will. As someone who's been a member, an officer and at times a GM it's astounding how selfish some players are. They whine when they want something, they refuse to research, they beg, they steal...
Creating the option for a guild to suggest donations piecemeal, through a % is fine. Reliable, friends-only guilds can trust their members (and leaders) so it's not a problem to not use the donation option. In a guild where everyone expects repairs, consumables and the like, it's unfair for management to shoulder so much of the burden.
It's all dependent on the type of guild you run and the members you have. I think the biggest haters (or at least a portion of them) are those who don't know what 'team effort' means outside of a 25 man raid.
syrant Sep 5th 2008 12:31PM
It wouldn't be the first tax in the game. The auction house cut is basically a sales tax.
Daymon Sep 5th 2008 12:31PM
new bank ninja era anyone? if nobody until recently has pop the brilliant idea (i'd say think more in your RL), and we've live very well so far w/o uncle sam in wow, then....don't fix what is not broken.
Daymon Sep 5th 2008 12:32PM
new bank ninja era anyone? if nobody until recently has pop the brilliant idea (i'd say think more in your RL), and we've live very well so far w/o uncle sam in wow, then....don't fix what is not broken.
PeeWee Sep 5th 2008 12:41PM
"You don't even pay taxes, they take tax. You get your check, money gone! That ain't a payment, that's a jack!"
-Chris Rock, "Bigger and Blacker"
LostOne Sep 5th 2008 12:47PM
I'd never join a guild that taxed me. I'm not a raider, I'm just in a guild to chat and have a good time.
Plus, with a tax system like this, I think you'd see a lot more guildleaders ninjaing the bank and moving to another server. Bigger guild banks would be more tempting.
Byrd Sep 5th 2008 12:50PM
I don't like this idea of a guild "tax". I agree that it is a bad decision to take something abhored in real life and put it into the game.
Why not have the guild system pay the players/officers/GM free monies/gold? Why does anyone have to take a hit to their own gold? Heck this is a game, Blizzard can make gold grow on trees if they want. This isn't real life.
Why does the gold have to come from anyone? Just make it out of thin air and send it to me for being a participating member in the guild! haha
Neocene Sep 5th 2008 1:18PM
So is blizzard ignoring the whole deal about "taxation without representation"?
"No taxation without representation" began as a slogan in the expansion of "wraith of the lich king" that summarized a primary grievance of the player base in the world of Azeroth. In short, many in those players believed the lack of direct representation in the distant blizz development was an illegal denial of their rights as players, and therefore laws taxing the players(the kind of law that affects the most individuals directly), and other laws applying only to the players, were unconstitutional. In recent times, it has been used by several other groups and in relation to other issues.
Jim Sep 5th 2008 1:25PM
Since when did Barack Obama start paying attention to WoW? They already have abortion in this game, why do they need to raise taxes too?!
yicheng04 Sep 5th 2008 1:48PM
I think compulsory taxes are a bit extreme, and like the OP said prone to workarounds. A better idea might be to build-in mechanisms for pledge-drives or fees-system, where players that make donations or opt-out can be made visible to the rest of the guild. Perhaps special guild titles or Achievements (like Honored Benefactor of the XYZ Guild) could give enough incentive.
I, for one, would like to see them fix the guild-bank system first before they even think about fees & taxes. At the time, it's just far far far too easy for gbanks to be defrauded: rogue GMs/officers, chars being able to transfer servers immediately after cleaning out the bank, hacked accounts, etc. For me, it's getting to the point where I refuse to donate to the guild bank anymore, and just hand out money to tanks and potions/food/flasks during raids.