Moonkins aiming to get DPS and group utility
by Alex Ziebart 
Sep 9th 2008 at 11:30AM
Paladins weren't the only ones to get some attention from the crab last night. The Balance Druid post wasn't an especially information-filled post, but mostly served as a reminder that even though the devs may not respond to your threads, they are paying attention. Ghostcrawler explains that whlie she may be focusing more heavily on Feral Druids, that doesn't mean she isn't aware of Balance's needs. She clarifies their role in a raid (caster, duh), and states a Moonkin's needs to meet that role. She lists the following:
- Competitive dps. Mages and warlocks just tend to get a lot of attention, maybe because there are more of them, or more races of them, or they are more archetypal classes (in the familiarity sense).
- Good AoE utility. Encounters and dungeons tend to get designed with the assumption that the ranged DPS can do AoE. Hurricane is phenomenal now. I healed a run today and did really competitive dps with Hurricane on the ranged pulls. And I wasn't even Balance! I love Starfall. It's a rare spell because it feels new -- it isn't single target and it isn't classical Hurricane-style AoE either.
- CC. If a group has a choice between a druid and a mage and only the mage can CC, the decision gets a lot easier. With Entangling Roots used inside, problem solved.
- Group utility. I think deep balance provides that now. Even Insect Swarm and Faerie Fire have a better role now. Without the vicious cycle of Curse of Shadows buffing warlocks which lead to inviting more warlocks somewhat solved, I think it will be easier for Balance druids to get into raids regardless. We've just opened space for more classes now.
- The ability to keep causing damage. I think the oomkin thing was largely addressed in BC, but it's still something we need to keep an eye on, or at least try and banish the stigma that other players still think it has.
A few Balance Druids that have spoken up so far also seem to not be fans of the sheer amount of utility Moonkin provide in Wrath, which is probably more than almost every other class/spec combination currently. Having played utility classes through all my 4 years of WoW, I can't say I understand that sentiment if the devs are still offering up competitive DPS. Utility is a good thing, not a punishment. While I understand that you're not DPSing while rebuffing Improved Faerie Fire, you're not DPSing while casting Curse of Elements, Vampiric Embrace, Focus Magic, Totems, Battle Shout, or Horn of Winter, either. If having utility isn't holding back your class to extremes, I think more utility is fantastic.
Filed under: Druid, Analysis / Opinion, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 6)
Eric Sep 9th 2008 11:42AM
Battle Rez, all the utility a boomkin druid can afford. Shift out, find body, waste a ton of mana, shift back(even more wasted mana) try and keep whats left of your mana, end up melee'ing to get mana back with a caster dagger (unless you haul a really good feral weapon around too) because oomkin was solved in BC. Not sure whats wrong with Eclipse though... but hey what do I know I play a hunter as a main :P
Faar Sep 9th 2008 4:33PM
Problem with Eclipse is it's a short-duration RNG-based proc, and it's hard to keep up any semblance of a mana-efficient rotation if you're forced to sit there spamming wrath to get a crit bonus for your starfire and the damn proc refuses to go off.
Tech Sep 9th 2008 11:52AM
Druids have the most variety of any class in the game:
Melee DPS
Caster DPS
Tanking
Healing
And they have excelled at two of the most needed rolls in the game (Tanking and Healing)
So i think it is pretty ridiculous of them to want to also have similar DPS to pure DPS classes such as Warlocks and Mages. They should be happy with their utility (possibly the best) as it will guarantee them a raid spot.
If they allow druids to be equal to all of the pure classes in their roles there would be no point to playing a pure class.
Thorin Sep 9th 2008 12:00PM
I totally agree. Mages have the same debuff from two trees that don't stack and still aren't keeping up well on Warlock damage, yet Druids are getting everything they want. How about a damn reason to not play a druid in Wrath? I don't care if the beta isn't over, these buffs for Balance are way over the damn top.
I remember how OP feral druids were at the beginning of BC and it looks like the class as a whole is now going to replace not only pure dps casters, tanks as well. I wonder why I am still being to stubborn to reroll my mage when every day I am seeing crap like this happen.
alt255 Sep 9th 2008 12:04PM
Right on, we grab druids because we like their kitty dps and we may need a bear form for a few pulls or a few small off heals because our healer is newbish... Or maybe we should just give all the classes CC AOE Tanking, Healing, Casting and Melee. Then we could just pick the people we like to raid with.
crsh Sep 9th 2008 12:25PM
You've got it backwards, clearly there should only be one class in WoW and that's druid, since they can do everything anyway. After that it's just spec and whether you want to be a cow or an annoying night elf.
Zali Sep 9th 2008 2:06PM
Ahhh silliness, it's why we read the comments at wowinsider.com.
There have been very obvious problems with group utility when it comes to the Balance class... which is why you just don't see many of them coming along in dungeons and raids. None of the druid specs are perfect for every situation, which is fine. OK, sure, resto druids are very good healers... but there are fights where you really want a priest or pally instead. Yea, bears are great tanks... except for when they aren't the best choice.
QQ because roots will be useable indoors. OK. Fine. It might mean that you don't HAVE to have a mage to sheep... but don't forget that roots are also the only CC that actually cause damage (yay) and you can cause damage while roots are applied, (yay again) but also has a chance to break due to damage... which makes it the only CC in the game that has a chance to break itself (not so yay) making sheep a more secure CC.
The point is that each class and each spec has it's pro's and cons. Boomkin aura was the only thing that they brought to the table that someone else was not bringing. If you had a resto or feral druid they could provide every other trick that a boomkin could, and the sub-par DPS just meant that the boomkin was benched.
Personally I would LOVE to spend time in raids as boomkin. It would mean I could go do dailys and quests and farm stuff, and then not have to respec four times a week so I could run raids with my guild. As is, I don't do anything on my druid anymore except raid... then I park it for a few days and run around on my warrior, rogue or mage.
I cry not at all for mages who feel like their spot will be taken by boomkins. My mage is still the only toon I got that can one-shot a single mob from 40 yards away, or pile up a stack of 5 cryogenically sealed corpses at a time.
The one thing I do know... no matter what happens with class utility in Wrath... everyone will QQ that their class is being picked on, some other class is OP, and gnomes should be KOS. It has been this way since WOW began, and it will be this way long after WOW has gone the way of the Dodo bird... at which point I will be asking people, "What do regular people do? Will the sun burn my eyes out of their sockets? Haha, I thought trees were a myth. No shit, people actually leave their houses?"
Sorry, bit of a tangent there.
sZimm Sep 9th 2008 2:38PM
the above four posters suffer from typical stupidity.
if i SPEC as a balance druid, GEAR as a balance druid, GEM as a balance druid, ENCHANT as a balance druid and INSCRIPT as a balance druid...
... how well do you think i can tank/heal/melee? let me tell you: like SHIT.
even if i carry around four full sets of gear, i still cant fully change roles in a raid situation, much less in the middle of combat.
druids who spec balance should be equal to other casters, as should shadow priests and elemental shamans.
Eisengel Sep 9th 2008 6:30PM
@ sZimm
Amen, brother!
Can a feral druid throw heals? Yes.
Can a feral druid main heal a raid? No.
Can a shadow priest throw heals? Yes.
Can a shadow priest main heal a raid? No.
WoW is strongly gear-based. I'd really rather our talents, spells and player skill be a little more important, but with the advent of BC the needle has swung even more toward gear deciding what you can do and how well you can do it. Gear stats are getting a little homogenized, but your feral tank is not going to be a viable offhealer, and no shadow-specced priest is going to be able to main heal (even with the spellpower homogenization).
Hybridization is a double-edged sword, sure you have the ability to fill multiple roles, but to perform them well at all you have to gear for them and talent for them... which means 3 to 4 times the number of gear runs/crafts/gems/etc as everyone else.
Minidrake Sep 9th 2008 9:27PM
Oh, I dunno. I think you've screwed up your reasoning.
Can a Feral Druid heal? Yes.
Can a Feral Druid main heal a raid? No.
Can a Feral Druid respec to main heal a raid? Yes.
Can a Priest respec to DPS or Main Tank? Not really.
Druids pay a price for their flexibility and *SHOULD*. Otherwise there's no reason to use the classes they emulate. Sure, they're not flexible in a single instance run, but they are flexible long term.
Buffalufagus Sep 11th 2008 3:14AM
I don't see moonkins asking to be better then mages or warlocks, but just want to be viable in the spec they choose. Just because they can tank doesn't mean that they will be tanking. Unlike a mage who can easily spec from arcane to fire to frost without switching gear you can't just pay 50g and expect to be a great tank in resto gear. You can't have to tank die and just say hey guy in cat gear since you are high on threat grab the boss. Druids don't really ever play the role of hybrid in a raid. They come there with the idea that they are there to play only one role. So why should they have to suffer?
So I'm not sure what utility you think moonkins should be happy about.
"If they allow druids to be equal to all of the pure classes in their roles there would be no point to playing a pure class."
And this comment is just silly. If they don't allow off spec druids to compete then whats the point in even having the these specs. Oh wait, that's right, all that non existant utility you speak of.
martin Sep 9th 2008 11:53AM
"CC. If a group has a choice between a druid and a mage and only the mage can CC, the decision gets a lot easier. With Entangling Roots used inside, problem solved."
Ofc a mage always wins out in the choice between a druid and mage...except for the fact that a druid can also TANK and HEAL, two group spots that a mage can NEVER have access to
Brasson Sep 9th 2008 12:24PM
Don't let the videos fool you - tanking as a moonkin is difficult. Healing as one isn't exactly amazing either.
Heilig Sep 9th 2008 12:45PM
Yeah, it seems difficult. Remove Salv and cast all your highest damage spells. Sounds tough.
Mister K Sep 9th 2008 3:06PM
Yeah because you won't have any spell pushback while tanking, lol, Also gearing for tanking as moonkin is absolutely horrible if your not in a top tier Arena team.
Allurissa Sep 9th 2008 11:55AM
The problem is they are screwing up our dps by making us more utilitarian. To start with, they've bloated the balance tree so much, that there's no way we can take all the talents required for raiding, along with the "required" talents in the Restoration tree.
Add to that the obvious lack of crit on any leather caster gear so far in the beta (through level 77). 99% of the leather caster gear I've seen to date has more spirit than a Moonkin ever needs, and we're already crit starved as it is, especially for a crit based class.
For the length of time Imp FF is up, the 3 talent points aren't really worth it, especially since it significantly lowers your dps.
We're clamoring for better gear, our tiered sets better tailored for moonkin required stats (less spirit, more crit please), combining or recreating of some talents and the removal of some bloating in our tree.
It still feels very much like Blizz is leaving us as second rate DPS. Feel free to visit the beta forums. I found a number of great threads on what Moonkin need in the last few days, with fabulous suggestions from players.
tomatoes Sep 9th 2008 5:17PM
"Without the vicious cycle of Curse of Shadows buffing warlocks which lead to inviting more warlocks somewhat solved,"
I dont get it. It takes one warlock to do that.
Arcaria Sep 9th 2008 11:57AM
I'm sorry but Moonkins don't need more DPS. They are a part of a class that is a hybrid meaning they can do lots of things but they should NOT EVER be able to do anything as well as a class built for that sole purpose.
They should not (and currently can't) tank as well as a pure tanking class
They should not (and currently don't) heal as well as a pure healing class
They should not (and currently don't) dps as well as a pure dps class.
They do whine and bitch as well as all three combined though.
But seriously, I'm tired of hearing hybrids complain about not being able to do things as well as other classes. It's sickening. Plain and simple, if you wanted to do one thing and do it well you shouldn't have rolled a hybrid.
brent Sep 9th 2008 12:28PM
/signed.
If they did whatever role they choose as well as a single focus class you wouldn't need to roll any other class.
Jack-of-all-trades, master pf none hsould persist.
mrluohua Sep 9th 2008 12:30PM
I wanted to comment but your post summarizes it nicely .... "I'm sorry but Moonkins don't need more DPS. "
Exactly. It is already unfair that druids can heal on-par with priests and tank on par with warriors. If you get to play a hybrid class that can do EVERYTHING, you shouldn't be as good as single-purpose classes, like mages and warlocks.
I'm sorry, but I disagree, druids should NOT have competitive dps.
It is sickening.
If the developers insist on giving them better dps, make the boomkin talent actually "reduce all healing by 50%" or something like that. How much can mages heal? ZERO! (..and don't say Draenai mages heal; that's racial)
Yes my main is a mage and yes, I have a 70 druid alt.