The Light and How to Swing It: Bracing for change
We know a second pass is coming. As good -- or bad -- as everything might seem right now, Paladins have yet to get another look from the developers and as Ghostcrawler mentioned on the forums earlier, they're nearing finalizing those changes soon. A few days back, Blizzard asked the players for feedback on all three trees, and it looks like all those constructive comments are finally going to see some results.
The good thing is that, despite all our misgivings about how the class has been handled all these years, it seems that Blizzard is finally listening. Holy wanted ways to be more mobile and have group healing utility... the Wrath Beta brings creative ways to solve that with instant Holy Lights and double duty healing. Protection needed stat consolidation badly, for starters, and it's slowly moving that way with Stamina granting spell power through Touched by the Light. Retribution needed raid utility among other things, and Blizzard is shaping up the spec to be a mana battery like Shadow Priests (and Survival Hunters). It's not everything players have wished for, but it's pretty darn close and there's no doubt that we're moving in the right direction.
Let's be clear about one thing: this is still Blizzard's game, and the Paladin class will turn out the way they want it. While many of us might have visions of what the class should be, and though some of us might know the class inside and out, Paladins in Wrath (or even Patch 3.0) will still be Blizzard's Paladins no matter how much we like or dislike what they do to the class. Fortunately, as I mentioned, they're actively seeking feedback now and -- for the most part -- listening to them.
Blessing of Kings
One of the things that Paladins have asked for for quite some time was for Blessing of Kings to become a baseline talent. Ever since it was moved out of the Retribution tree -- which effectively dashed hopes of Retribution raid utility early on -- it became a much sought-after talent that has many Holy (and Retribution) Paladins taking points in Protection just to get it. Ghostcrawler says they're not comfortable making it a trained skill and that "burying it deep in Prot <snip> doesn't feel great, either."
I hope I misunderstood that last statement, though. I hope Blizzard isn't even remotely considering putting BoK deeper into Protection. It's a mandatory buff that at least one person in the raid is supposed to have it because it scales well no matter where a raid is in terms of progression. It's so good that many Paladins will sacrifice 10 points just to get to it... which might be the heart of the problem. Just the same, however, Blessing of Kings needs to either be a baseline ability or left where it is -- or lower.
I've lost count of the times when players have asked me for Blessing of Kings not understanding that it's a talented Blessing and that not everyone has it. My question is why doesn't everyone have it? Protection is the only tree with two of its own Blessings. The new Blessing of Sanctuary is so juicy, Protection should probably share one with the rest of the Paladin community. You know, just sayin'.
Messing with the last two tiers
This is an interesting design philosophy that shouldn't just apply to the Paladin class but to all trees of all classes. I believe that Ghostcrawler was referring to making Tier 10 more appealing than just mere point-fillers in order to get to the whopper 51-point talent. For the most part, this is true. Players look at the 51-point talent with little regard for the 45-50 point filler. This applies less to Holy, where the haste bonus from Judgements of the Pure is a significant raid contribution self-buff (see what writing at 4am does to you...). On the other hand, Shield of the Templar in Protection is mediocre and Righteous Vengeance from Retribution can be skipped.
The problem with Tier 10 in Wrath -- as with Tier 8 in The Burning Crusade -- is that most have only one 5-point talent. It's feels like it's pretty much only intended to reach the last tier. While avoiding the bloat, it would be nice to see more than one option for Tier 10 and one amazing power for Tier 11 that matches up competitively against 21-point talents. Righteous Vengeance is skippable mainly because it excludes Crusader Strike, still the Retribution Paladin's bread and butter, from the bonus. Players opting to hybridize should feel the sting of skipping out on the tenth tier of a tree and not just think, "I can live without Divine Storm".
Beacon of Light
I raved about Beacon of Light last week when I played around with it on Beta. My fears were confirmed when Ghostcrawler said she felt that, "it may be a little OP right now", because to be quite frank the spell kicks major butt. It's like Blessing of Light and Binding Heal's bastard love child on steroids. I like the way it works now and Blizzard will probably need to just adjust the numbers a bit and not necessarily rework the spell again. If you're not seeing how amazing the spell is, you probably have the wrong rank keybound -- a bug showed up on Beta during the last build that had several, non-functional versions of the spell appear on the trainer.
Vengeance back to 3 stacks
Vengeance posed a delicate problem for Blizzard. On one hand, the talent provided an amazing 15% damage increase for 5 talent points, which was cheap enough but offset by the fact that it relied on crits in order to be kept up. On the other hand, Vengeance scaled too well with gear because as the Paladin's gear got better, his crit rating got higher, and it came to the point where Paladins could keep Vengeance up indefinitely.
The problem was two-fold -- first, Vengeance in that regard was overpowered because it was never intended to be a permanent buff; second, most Paladins felt that they needed to have Vengeance up permanently in order to be competitive in raid DPS. Blizzard nerfed Vengeance to two stacks totalling +10% damage for five talent points. Of course, as they mentioned in a thread, a stack of two isn't much of a stack at all.
Ghostcrawler also says that they're looking at bringing the stacks back up to three, "because that just feels more fun than 2." I like Blizzard's repeated use of the word 'fun' throughout Wrath's development cycle. This indicates that their design is geared primarily towards making the game fun for people, something that can easily get lost in all the number crunching. The proposed change to reduce Vengeance to three talent points would be extremely welcome -- even though it's an effective nerf -- because it frees the tree further from bloat.
Judgements of the Wise and Replenishment
This is the one change from the last Beta build that got the Paladin community in an uproar. Replenishment was intended to standardize mana battery mechanics and free the buff from a difficult cycle of scaling DPS. I'm not so hot on the change, but I understand the rationale behind it. No matter the tweaks on Replenishment -- it still returns too little mana and scales badly with low mana pools -- it's important that Blizzard fixes a Retribution Paladin's mana management.
Ghostcrawler has acknowledged as much and mentioned that a reworked Divine Plea was part of the solution. It can't be the only solution but it's a start. Hopefully, it will still be tied to Judgements, similar to the first iteration of the spell, and return mana only to the caster. It will be interesting to see how Blizzard fixes this in a way that is reminiscent of the old version of the spell while not overpowered at the same time.
Deep Ret and Prot
One or two more talents to come for each tree... this is exciting. It's possible they'll fill the sparse Tier 10 with tasty talents to lure Paladins from a potential cross-speccing. Reducing talents like Vengeance to 3 points from 5 will also help free up the tree from bloating. Seeing the next builds of Beta should have some pretty good stuff.
The trees right now still all need a little polish, not just in terms of the abilities working on Beta, but in terms of each talent's concept and how it synergizes with other talents in other trees. Divine Purpose no longer makes any sense now that Toughness, lower in the Protection tree, gives a greater movement-impairment reduction. Small incongruencies like this guarantee that there will be more changes to come, hopefully to emend things. Looking over the list that Ghostcrawler mentioned, even if it's not yet the final scope of work, has got me stoked. The winds of change are blowing, and it feels pretty good.
Do you have Faith in the Light? Let Zach spread the good word in The Light and How to Swing It. Zach pontificates about the Shockadin in the new expansion, as well as writes up little ruminations on how to deal with Patch 3.0. He plans to celebrate the return of proper mana management for Retadins when the new Beta build comes out.
The good thing is that, despite all our misgivings about how the class has been handled all these years, it seems that Blizzard is finally listening. Holy wanted ways to be more mobile and have group healing utility... the Wrath Beta brings creative ways to solve that with instant Holy Lights and double duty healing. Protection needed stat consolidation badly, for starters, and it's slowly moving that way with Stamina granting spell power through Touched by the Light. Retribution needed raid utility among other things, and Blizzard is shaping up the spec to be a mana battery like Shadow Priests (and Survival Hunters). It's not everything players have wished for, but it's pretty darn close and there's no doubt that we're moving in the right direction.
Let's be clear about one thing: this is still Blizzard's game, and the Paladin class will turn out the way they want it. While many of us might have visions of what the class should be, and though some of us might know the class inside and out, Paladins in Wrath (or even Patch 3.0) will still be Blizzard's Paladins no matter how much we like or dislike what they do to the class. Fortunately, as I mentioned, they're actively seeking feedback now and -- for the most part -- listening to them.
Blessing of Kings
One of the things that Paladins have asked for for quite some time was for Blessing of Kings to become a baseline talent. Ever since it was moved out of the Retribution tree -- which effectively dashed hopes of Retribution raid utility early on -- it became a much sought-after talent that has many Holy (and Retribution) Paladins taking points in Protection just to get it. Ghostcrawler says they're not comfortable making it a trained skill and that "burying it deep in Prot <snip> doesn't feel great, either."
I hope I misunderstood that last statement, though. I hope Blizzard isn't even remotely considering putting BoK deeper into Protection. It's a mandatory buff that at least one person in the raid is supposed to have it because it scales well no matter where a raid is in terms of progression. It's so good that many Paladins will sacrifice 10 points just to get to it... which might be the heart of the problem. Just the same, however, Blessing of Kings needs to either be a baseline ability or left where it is -- or lower.
I've lost count of the times when players have asked me for Blessing of Kings not understanding that it's a talented Blessing and that not everyone has it. My question is why doesn't everyone have it? Protection is the only tree with two of its own Blessings. The new Blessing of Sanctuary is so juicy, Protection should probably share one with the rest of the Paladin community. You know, just sayin'.
Messing with the last two tiers
This is an interesting design philosophy that shouldn't just apply to the Paladin class but to all trees of all classes. I believe that Ghostcrawler was referring to making Tier 10 more appealing than just mere point-fillers in order to get to the whopper 51-point talent. For the most part, this is true. Players look at the 51-point talent with little regard for the 45-50 point filler. This applies less to Holy, where the haste bonus from Judgements of the Pure is a significant raid contribution self-buff (see what writing at 4am does to you...). On the other hand, Shield of the Templar in Protection is mediocre and Righteous Vengeance from Retribution can be skipped.
The problem with Tier 10 in Wrath -- as with Tier 8 in The Burning Crusade -- is that most have only one 5-point talent. It's feels like it's pretty much only intended to reach the last tier. While avoiding the bloat, it would be nice to see more than one option for Tier 10 and one amazing power for Tier 11 that matches up competitively against 21-point talents. Righteous Vengeance is skippable mainly because it excludes Crusader Strike, still the Retribution Paladin's bread and butter, from the bonus. Players opting to hybridize should feel the sting of skipping out on the tenth tier of a tree and not just think, "I can live without Divine Storm".
Beacon of Light
I raved about Beacon of Light last week when I played around with it on Beta. My fears were confirmed when Ghostcrawler said she felt that, "it may be a little OP right now", because to be quite frank the spell kicks major butt. It's like Blessing of Light and Binding Heal's bastard love child on steroids. I like the way it works now and Blizzard will probably need to just adjust the numbers a bit and not necessarily rework the spell again. If you're not seeing how amazing the spell is, you probably have the wrong rank keybound -- a bug showed up on Beta during the last build that had several, non-functional versions of the spell appear on the trainer.
Vengeance back to 3 stacks
Vengeance posed a delicate problem for Blizzard. On one hand, the talent provided an amazing 15% damage increase for 5 talent points, which was cheap enough but offset by the fact that it relied on crits in order to be kept up. On the other hand, Vengeance scaled too well with gear because as the Paladin's gear got better, his crit rating got higher, and it came to the point where Paladins could keep Vengeance up indefinitely.
The problem was two-fold -- first, Vengeance in that regard was overpowered because it was never intended to be a permanent buff; second, most Paladins felt that they needed to have Vengeance up permanently in order to be competitive in raid DPS. Blizzard nerfed Vengeance to two stacks totalling +10% damage for five talent points. Of course, as they mentioned in a thread, a stack of two isn't much of a stack at all.
Ghostcrawler also says that they're looking at bringing the stacks back up to three, "because that just feels more fun than 2." I like Blizzard's repeated use of the word 'fun' throughout Wrath's development cycle. This indicates that their design is geared primarily towards making the game fun for people, something that can easily get lost in all the number crunching. The proposed change to reduce Vengeance to three talent points would be extremely welcome -- even though it's an effective nerf -- because it frees the tree further from bloat.
Judgements of the Wise and Replenishment
This is the one change from the last Beta build that got the Paladin community in an uproar. Replenishment was intended to standardize mana battery mechanics and free the buff from a difficult cycle of scaling DPS. I'm not so hot on the change, but I understand the rationale behind it. No matter the tweaks on Replenishment -- it still returns too little mana and scales badly with low mana pools -- it's important that Blizzard fixes a Retribution Paladin's mana management.
Ghostcrawler has acknowledged as much and mentioned that a reworked Divine Plea was part of the solution. It can't be the only solution but it's a start. Hopefully, it will still be tied to Judgements, similar to the first iteration of the spell, and return mana only to the caster. It will be interesting to see how Blizzard fixes this in a way that is reminiscent of the old version of the spell while not overpowered at the same time.
Deep Ret and Prot
One or two more talents to come for each tree... this is exciting. It's possible they'll fill the sparse Tier 10 with tasty talents to lure Paladins from a potential cross-speccing. Reducing talents like Vengeance to 3 points from 5 will also help free up the tree from bloating. Seeing the next builds of Beta should have some pretty good stuff.
The trees right now still all need a little polish, not just in terms of the abilities working on Beta, but in terms of each talent's concept and how it synergizes with other talents in other trees. Divine Purpose no longer makes any sense now that Toughness, lower in the Protection tree, gives a greater movement-impairment reduction. Small incongruencies like this guarantee that there will be more changes to come, hopefully to emend things. Looking over the list that Ghostcrawler mentioned, even if it's not yet the final scope of work, has got me stoked. The winds of change are blowing, and it feels pretty good.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, (Paladin) The Light and How to Swing It, Wrath of the Lich King







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Heilig Sep 9th 2008 4:43PM
When he said "Top-tier talents" he really meant "Upper-tier," as in Tiers 1 and 2. People are sick of having to take 10 points in Prot for Kings, like you mentioned, but ret is sick of taking redoubt or Imp. Devo just to get Precision, and Prot is sick of taking Benediction or Imp. Might just for Deflection.
As they have done with the DK trees, they want to have "mandatory" talents for each tree that are not actually IN that tree so people have to cross-spec a bit, but they want those talents to be obtainable without having to take a bunch of junk you don't need just to get to what you do.
agnoster Sep 9th 2008 4:52PM
Thanks, I almost had to write that up and you spared me the trouble :-)
rihahn Sep 9th 2008 4:46PM
I can't wait to bust out my 2-hander again, on a raid, and not be looked at like I'm a fool.
:)
Heilig Sep 9th 2008 4:49PM
Also, beacon of Light WILL be changed. Being able to cast it on someone and then target that same person and heal them for double is decidedly NOT its intended purpose. It is supposed to be used for healing the tank and widespread raid damage at the same time. Double-healing one person is a bug that they will fix very soon, if not change the spell entirely.
Ancro Sep 9th 2008 4:50PM
"On the other hand, Shield of the Templar in Protection is mediocre..."
I have to take exception with you here - Shield of the Templar is an amazing talent for what it does. Let's take the talent apart:
1) Increases the Damage of Holy Shield, Avenger's Shield, and Shield of Righteousness by (5/10/15)%.
For as much as the Holy Shield talent is spammed, this talent should be a no brainer just for that. On top of that, the other two abilities are also meant to be spammed (with AShield now on a .5s cast time, it's something like HoWrath), more damage = more threat = I'm a Happy Protadin. But it gets better: Shield of Righteousness is probably going to be a our Main Tank/Single Target response to Shield Slam over from Warriors. 200% holy damage, +spellpower, and then 15% increase from SotT? Yes PLEASE.
2) Decreases the mana cost of HS, AS, and SoRight by (5/10/15%). Again, all three of these abilities are meant to be spammed whenever their up. A 15% decrease in mana cost is nothing to sneeze at, because it makes us more resistant to Parry/Dodge damage gibbing.
In short: Shield of the Templar is win. A pretty high level threat increase for much lower mana costs on spammed abilities is something that should be put on a pedestal and worshiped. That cow is made of solid gold, baby.
I agree that in the current environment, however, Righteous Vengeance for Retribution probably could use a do-over for the Paladin tuning - perhaps making it a three point talent instead of 5 would make it more attractive.
Heilig Sep 9th 2008 4:57PM
The problem is that Guarded by the Light also modifies Avenger's Shield to a major extent, and they don't like having 5 points in 2 different talents just to buff another talent. That is just more of the same bloat, which they will hopefully change this pass.
Shield of the Templar is mediocre because it is a very boring, passive increase to skills and is very high in the tree where the fun stuff should be. Passive buffs should be further down to keep people from being forced to take them to get the cherry at the top once they have good enough gear where the passive buffs aren't really necessary anymore.
jagerkin Sep 9th 2008 5:13PM
mmmm solid gold cow - *drool*
I've always loved the mechanic of hit me and I hit you back - 10 fold. I do hope they take some note of this and do little to no tweaking to this change. With the way they are now calculating spell damage and the % increases in overall damage rather than a range of set # makes it even more interesting.
The way warriors absorb damage I have always though of the paladin as the tanking class that reflects damage. With some highlights I've read of death knights they look like the tanking class that bridges both.
NH2 Sep 9th 2008 10:07PM
I agree, especially since they are reworking all of plate gear that was targeted towards pallys. I'll be losing 50-60 int off my gear when the patch hits and that hurts considering my mana pool was already tiny.
Even now I debate with myself whether to judge or pop another holy shield near the end of a fight with trash mobs just so I won't have to sit and drink afterwards. What a pain.
Gritiron Sep 9th 2008 6:40PM
/agree with all of this, just one quick point, the new BoS means we don't have to worry about the parry/dodge mana issues, in fact now they will help!
Turtlehead Sep 10th 2008 12:05AM
To Heilig:
'Shield of the Templar is mediocre because it is a very boring, passive increase to skills and is very high in the tree where the fun stuff should be."
Says you. I'd far prefer a tree defining big boost talent at the end so I have to consider going for it or not. The "fun" stuff can go wherever, taken or not.
"Passive buffs should be further down to keep people from being forced to take them to get the cherry at the top"
Your definition of cherry. I call the same sprinkles--fun if you get 'em, doesn't matter if you don't. If I get to be Uther II for ten seconds and get all glowly, sure, might take it at tier 2. Screw it deep in the tree though unless it's REALLY GOOD, not just "fun".
"once they have good enough gear where the passive buffs aren't really necessary anymore."
You do realize, I hope, that Kings is so good precisely because it scales incredibly well with gear. Yes?
Pazu Sep 9th 2008 4:54PM
I'm still puzzled why they're so hesitant on making Kings baseline. Yes, it's very powerful, but given that we only have Might and Wisdom as permanent blessings. If there's a warlock and a warrior in my group (and that would be very likely in a 25 man raid), then I cannot give any meaningful blessing to DKs, Wars, and Rogues because of the Battle Shout and Might not stacking unless I spec for Kings. Given that blessings are supposed to be a reason to bring a paladin, that's a big issue if there are situations where I can't even give ONE useful blessing to some of the raid.
Beras Sep 10th 2008 9:53PM
I don't get why they won't just make Blessing of Kings a baseline spell either. It's really going to suck for finishing out level 70 raiding since you can't take both Beacon of Light and Kings.
Also 90% of pallies of all specs end up taking it anyway. It's pretty much a required buff for raiding.
If your holy, you waste 10 talent points taking talents that are almost useless for raid healing just to get it.
If your ret, you will probably take 5 points in divine strength anyway, but to get all the way to BOK you most likely have to sacrifce a talent that helps your dps.
And if you're prot, this means there is no way to buff both the new blessing of sanctuary (which all the tank classes will now want), and BOK. If you're tanking, you need both of these buffs and even though I play a prot pally, I don't agree with always having to bring to prot pallies to a raid just to make sure everyone is properly buffed.
Making it baseline is the only good solution. Yeah, the ten percent of pallies who didn't have it now would, but so what, I don't think thats overpowered. Don't just go by the pally point of view either, I think anyone who raids would agree.
Khanmora Sep 9th 2008 5:31PM
Judgements of the Pure is probably one of the worst talents in the game for paladins and is one that will most likely be skipped by the majority of holy paladins.
1. With the amount of haste on gear, we are likely going to be bumping into the 1sec gcd pretty quickly on FoL (and since downranking is going away, we will be using FoL rather than multiple ranks of HL).
2. This is not a raid buff, it is a personal haste buff. It has no raid utility whatsoever. Read the tooltip it "increases YOUR casting and melee haste."
Other deep holy talents are also going to need re-evaluation. Light's Grace, for instance, is really overshadowed by Infusion of Light, and without downranking there is no good way to keep LG active. We certainly aren't going to be spamming max rank HL.
As noted in the feedback on the Holy tree thread, we have tiers that are either jammed full of required talents (t8) or tiers that are completely barren of a good choice (T10) or tiers that leave only one choice (T1) for the intended playstyle of the tree.
It's pretty sad when the best builds that beta testers are using don't include any points in T10 of their main tree, or pretty evenly split points between holy and ret to get Sheath or JotW for more group utility.
Beras Sep 10th 2008 12:30PM
The haste buff may be only for the paladin but the Judement of Light or Wisdom on the boss does benefit the whole raid. JoW can contribute pretty significantly to mana regen, comparable to the amount of mana you would regen chain chugging mana pots. If you don't believe me, check out wow web stats on a boss fight when it's used. It's a good way to get holy pallies to actually put the debuff on the target. I'm sure someone will come out with a 30 second timer mod to remind you to reapply the buff, and the mana cost is pretty trivial for the benefit it gives.
Judgement of Light isn't as useful but it is now supposed to scale with spellpower. It does work to take a small amount of burden on healing the melee who on many mobs take some damage from being in close contact.
Khanmora Sep 10th 2008 3:10PM
The range talent is completely separate from the haste talent. I can get the range, in a build like this:
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?paladin=05230050220300303000000000050350050310130053102400200000000000000000000000000000
and still get Sheathe and JotW to go with it which is going to help a ton with mana regen for holy builds.
Palladiamorsdeus Sep 9th 2008 5:34PM
Further note that Ghostcrawler said that her version of the talent may not be whats on live. I liked the old version better, on a personal note, but if they want to give it group healing, have the beacon of light heal everyone within say fourty yards of the target for 50% of what the paladin heals the beacon for. Problem solved.
Khanmora Sep 9th 2008 5:38PM
They'd probably be more likely in that case to make it the 2-3 people within 40 yards with the lowest hp ala the new mana regeneration mechanic, rather than everyone within 40 yards.
RetPallyJil Sep 9th 2008 5:42PM
How about you increase ret DPS, since ... you know, we're a DPS class.
Just a wild, crazy thought.
Khanmora Sep 9th 2008 5:47PM
Except doesn't it make a little more sense to get the trees straight, see how everyone is doing, and then tune numbers? Otherwise we end up with something like, well, Vanilla WoW Beta and Release.
RetPallyJil Sep 9th 2008 10:21PM
No it doesn't make sense at all.
If you're going to fix and streamline my spec, try things like talents that increas AP and melee crit, or at least our Agility.
How about a deep talent tree that gives US faster mana regen?
I should not kill something because I managed to not run out of mana. (That's how things are right now).
I should kill things because I have sufficient base DPS to kill them before the mana I have runs out.
(What we should have)
Trust me, I've been ret since I hit level 10 in 2005.
Blizzard, stop asking healtards what rets actually need.
Let us do our job. Our job is DPS melee damage. I cannot believe you found a thousand different damage-dealing talents for rogues, hunters, and warriors and can't manage to scrape up one for us.
You ask what we want, we tell you, and you go right ahead and give us the same half-assed changes you always stick us with.
GG Blizz. Warhammer is looking better every day.