Scattered Shots: It ain't over till it's over
Scattered Shots occasionally wanders around collecting arrows and bullets when they totally miss the target.
The key to understanding hunters in the beta is to look at the big picture. This is something affecting all classes currently, but I'm going to discuss it in relation to hunters in particular. Beta testing buffs and nerfs ultimately come down to a matter of perspective -- do you see your class changes happening in isolation, for now and forever as long as you and your pet shall live? Or are your particular class changes happening as part of an ever-evolving system involving you, me and everyone else over time?
As you've probably heard, hunters got some nerfs in the latest beta update, and some people are understandably upset about them. I'm not worried about it though -- and now I'll tell you why.
Disclaimer
First, let me reassure you that yes, nerfs suck. Yes, I agree that if our class went live today, it would probably suck too. Let's not argue about that. The reason why I'm not worried is because the class will not go live today, or even tomorrow. The change we see happening in the beta test is a process that happens in degrees, with a lot of back and forth, and with the ultimate goal of experimental learning rather than true playability at this point. It's going to go through a long long period (i.e. 2 months or more) of testing and refinement, after which the pace of changes will slow down to a crawl. Until then, there's no point in panicking.
So today, instead of looking at nitty gritty details and numbers that are going to change within a week or so, let's talk about the overall state of things, especially as they relate to problems we've been struggling with ever since the Burning Crusade arrived.
Mana
Hunters have been struggling with mana-shortages for a long time, especially at low levels. Looking at the proposed changes to date, it seems Blizzard has decided for sure that they will not scrap the hunter's mana system for something else like energy -- so it is written that casters we have been and casters we remain.
One thing we need to recognize when we acknowledge our caster-ness (casterocity? casterfication?) is that mana has to be a limited resource; that's to say, there always must be some danger of running out. The whole point of having power in a game is that your power is limited -- you have to manage it to maximum effeciency, and that's part of your skill with your class.
Blizzard has recognized that hunters are having trouble in the area of mana-regeneration, though, and have created several new talents that are designed to help us with that, in addition to overhauling Aspect of the Viper several times over. Don't like how our slithery aspect is looking in its current state? By all means, say so in a polite manner, but promise to quit the game over this -- chances are 98% that it'll change again (and again, and again) before you actually get to use it.
Pets
Blizzard has come through for us 110% here, and we should never forget it. With the new pet talent trees and wide diversity of pets available (including that extra ten percent, the exotic pets for Beast Masters), each pet has become, just as I once wished for, "like its own little mini-class," which we can "attach to our hunter for a unique hunting experience." This makes us about the most customizable class in the game, and we should never take that for granted (especially having been denied it for so long).
Pet training has always been an issue for us too. Now we never again have to go out and tame new pets just for the abilities we need to learn, because all pet abilities are learned automatically, or else through talents in their new talent trees. We also just have to level them up a maximum of 5 levels -- granted I would prefer it to be 0, but 5 is definitely a huge step in the right direction!
(...)
That topic you see just up there is Camouflaged. That's to illustrate how Camouflage is that special ability we've been promised, but still don't know anything about. It's hiding behind some bushes somewhere, I'm sure.
According to one poster on the beta forums, this is what the new Camouflage will look like:
Camouflage: You camouflage, causing you and your Pet to blend into your surroundings. After 3 sec., you will enter a stealthed state. While stealthed, you and your pet's movement speed is reduced by 30%, but the damage done by your next attack is increased by 50%. You can lay traps while under the effect, but any damage done by you or your pet will cancel the effect. Cannot be cast while in combat.
As far as I know, this version of Camouflage is not actually found anywhere in the game, and of course it isn't trainable. So we shouldn't really know what the ability will actually be like in the end. But this one is as good a suggestion as any. What do you think of it?
Arenas
The big question on everyone's mind is, as Daniel put it, whether or not hunters can "finally crawl out of the Arena basement," but I have a lot more optimism than he does about our chances of getting a lot of our PvP functionality back in one way or another. Blizzard has said more than once that they want to be really sure they finally balance things for hunters, and I believe them when they say they're dedicated to that. From my understanding of Koraa's statements, I think this particular beta build had more to do with "balancing" the abilities on their spreadsheets more than in practical reality. As Ghostcrawler says, they have a scientific approach to all this where they try to keep numerous factors in mind, and go over everything in progressive stages. They've been purposely adjusting things too high in the beginning, too low for now, and then high again/low again as different circumstances within the continuing beta evolve.
Line of Sight
One particular PvP issue that hasn't been addressed at all is Line of Sight. Koraa mentioned once that they were going to add "two new abilities" to help with this issue, but we still haven't seen what those are yet. Our reliance on both distance and line of sight means that chasing people around those pillars is just hell for us -- we're always either too close or just around the corner.
I'm still hoping for some sort of homing-missile ability that can shoot around pillars. It would take 4 seconds or something to charge up, and it would have a cooldown, but it would really help in situations like that. I could also see how that would be too much, however. But what other sorts of abilities would really help with our Line of Sight issues? Some hunters have suggested that we should be able to shoot at point blank range, but for me that would take away some of the uniqueness of our class. Are the new abilities we've gotten so far enough to help us out here, without any more extra abilities (assuming they're buffed up enough to be useful)?
Conclusion
So those are some of the issues we're looking at here -- where we've come from and where we're going. There really is some good and some bad. The nerfs of the latest patch suck, yes, but they're not all there is to our situation, they're just the latest stage in a progressive series of adjustments. If we get too upset about whether specific details go live or not, we may miss out on the larger picture of the broader issues our class still needs addressed.
Scattered Shots calls for calm and rational panic, when necessary. But first, consider this: Are you concerned about hunters' line of sight issues? What do you think are the biggest hunter problems now? Do you ever wonder if Blizzard really understands our hunter PvP issues?
The key to understanding hunters in the beta is to look at the big picture. This is something affecting all classes currently, but I'm going to discuss it in relation to hunters in particular. Beta testing buffs and nerfs ultimately come down to a matter of perspective -- do you see your class changes happening in isolation, for now and forever as long as you and your pet shall live? Or are your particular class changes happening as part of an ever-evolving system involving you, me and everyone else over time?
As you've probably heard, hunters got some nerfs in the latest beta update, and some people are understandably upset about them. I'm not worried about it though -- and now I'll tell you why.
Disclaimer
First, let me reassure you that yes, nerfs suck. Yes, I agree that if our class went live today, it would probably suck too. Let's not argue about that. The reason why I'm not worried is because the class will not go live today, or even tomorrow. The change we see happening in the beta test is a process that happens in degrees, with a lot of back and forth, and with the ultimate goal of experimental learning rather than true playability at this point. It's going to go through a long long period (i.e. 2 months or more) of testing and refinement, after which the pace of changes will slow down to a crawl. Until then, there's no point in panicking.
So today, instead of looking at nitty gritty details and numbers that are going to change within a week or so, let's talk about the overall state of things, especially as they relate to problems we've been struggling with ever since the Burning Crusade arrived.
Mana
Hunters have been struggling with mana-shortages for a long time, especially at low levels. Looking at the proposed changes to date, it seems Blizzard has decided for sure that they will not scrap the hunter's mana system for something else like energy -- so it is written that casters we have been and casters we remain.
One thing we need to recognize when we acknowledge our caster-ness (casterocity? casterfication?) is that mana has to be a limited resource; that's to say, there always must be some danger of running out. The whole point of having power in a game is that your power is limited -- you have to manage it to maximum effeciency, and that's part of your skill with your class.
Blizzard has recognized that hunters are having trouble in the area of mana-regeneration, though, and have created several new talents that are designed to help us with that, in addition to overhauling Aspect of the Viper several times over. Don't like how our slithery aspect is looking in its current state? By all means, say so in a polite manner, but promise to quit the game over this -- chances are 98% that it'll change again (and again, and again) before you actually get to use it.
Pets
Blizzard has come through for us 110% here, and we should never forget it. With the new pet talent trees and wide diversity of pets available (including that extra ten percent, the exotic pets for Beast Masters), each pet has become, just as I once wished for, "like its own little mini-class," which we can "attach to our hunter for a unique hunting experience." This makes us about the most customizable class in the game, and we should never take that for granted (especially having been denied it for so long).
Pet training has always been an issue for us too. Now we never again have to go out and tame new pets just for the abilities we need to learn, because all pet abilities are learned automatically, or else through talents in their new talent trees. We also just have to level them up a maximum of 5 levels -- granted I would prefer it to be 0, but 5 is definitely a huge step in the right direction!
(...)
That topic you see just up there is Camouflaged. That's to illustrate how Camouflage is that special ability we've been promised, but still don't know anything about. It's hiding behind some bushes somewhere, I'm sure.
According to one poster on the beta forums, this is what the new Camouflage will look like:
Camouflage: You camouflage, causing you and your Pet to blend into your surroundings. After 3 sec., you will enter a stealthed state. While stealthed, you and your pet's movement speed is reduced by 30%, but the damage done by your next attack is increased by 50%. You can lay traps while under the effect, but any damage done by you or your pet will cancel the effect. Cannot be cast while in combat.
As far as I know, this version of Camouflage is not actually found anywhere in the game, and of course it isn't trainable. So we shouldn't really know what the ability will actually be like in the end. But this one is as good a suggestion as any. What do you think of it?
Arenas
The big question on everyone's mind is, as Daniel put it, whether or not hunters can "finally crawl out of the Arena basement," but I have a lot more optimism than he does about our chances of getting a lot of our PvP functionality back in one way or another. Blizzard has said more than once that they want to be really sure they finally balance things for hunters, and I believe them when they say they're dedicated to that. From my understanding of Koraa's statements, I think this particular beta build had more to do with "balancing" the abilities on their spreadsheets more than in practical reality. As Ghostcrawler says, they have a scientific approach to all this where they try to keep numerous factors in mind, and go over everything in progressive stages. They've been purposely adjusting things too high in the beginning, too low for now, and then high again/low again as different circumstances within the continuing beta evolve.
Line of Sight
One particular PvP issue that hasn't been addressed at all is Line of Sight. Koraa mentioned once that they were going to add "two new abilities" to help with this issue, but we still haven't seen what those are yet. Our reliance on both distance and line of sight means that chasing people around those pillars is just hell for us -- we're always either too close or just around the corner.
I'm still hoping for some sort of homing-missile ability that can shoot around pillars. It would take 4 seconds or something to charge up, and it would have a cooldown, but it would really help in situations like that. I could also see how that would be too much, however. But what other sorts of abilities would really help with our Line of Sight issues? Some hunters have suggested that we should be able to shoot at point blank range, but for me that would take away some of the uniqueness of our class. Are the new abilities we've gotten so far enough to help us out here, without any more extra abilities (assuming they're buffed up enough to be useful)?
Conclusion
So those are some of the issues we're looking at here -- where we've come from and where we're going. There really is some good and some bad. The nerfs of the latest patch suck, yes, but they're not all there is to our situation, they're just the latest stage in a progressive series of adjustments. If we get too upset about whether specific details go live or not, we may miss out on the larger picture of the broader issues our class still needs addressed.
Filed under: Hunter, Analysis / Opinion, PvP, Expansions, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King, (Hunter) Scattered Shots







Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
wtb shotgun blast Sep 11th 2008 7:22PM
Create a shotgun blast ability - [RAP * 3.0 + 10,000] damage, reducing damage by 4% for each yard between the hunter and his target, knocks the target back 10 yards, stuns them for 2 seconds, and prevents the hunter from firing any other shots for 5 seconds.
30-60 second cd sounds good.
Chasing someone around a pillar? solved. Can't get away from that warrior, rogue, etc.? solved. Got that plate wearing pally down to 20% hp and he's about to bubble? solved. That priest wants to get up close and AE fear? solved. Got that fel puppy gnawing at your ankle? solved. Think it's bs that several classes can chain heal themselves while you're lighting them up? solved.
Eliminatesu Sep 12th 2008 1:10AM
Awesome, there's hope in that.
STereo Sep 11th 2008 7:48PM
Hunters need major buffs just to catch up to all the other classes. Then on top of that, hunters need another round of major buffs to keep up with the improvements to all the other classes. Blizzard has let us sit in the outhouse for 4 seasons, and I see no reason to be optimistic about the future.
Gimmlette Sep 11th 2008 7:55PM
First let me say that I PvP and am on my guild's arena teams. I'm lousy but we do both for fun. Then I'd like to posit, why all the emphasis on PvP? Is that the direction Blizzard is slowly pulling us? Eventually, in expansion #5 will the world be one giant battleground where it really is every toon for herself and only by attaching to one of the roving gangs can you hope to find and kill Gobbler?
I don't mean to diminish the problems of hunters in arena. "He's gone behind the post, Gimm!" is something I hear on Vent quite frequently to which I often respond, "What the 'h' can I do about it?" It is extremely frustrating in a BG and Arena to have to move, right into someone else's close range, in order to shoot at the guy beating on my healer.
And yet, if "fixing" the problems we hunters have in PvP means the general joy I have in questing gets nerfed, what is gained. I don't mean me, specifically, but use me as an example. I PvE. The rest I do as a diversion. I want to grind motes or mobs with little change to how I do it now. Yes, mana is an issue, but I have adapted to the idea of mana conservation. We shouldn't stand in one place and just fire. We should be moving. It's the rare occasion where I can just point my gun, hit rapid fire and plug away without having to adjust where I'm at based on what the mob is doing. Some bosses, Void Reaver comes to mind, you can't just stand and shoot.
I'm concerned with Growl. I would like to see some change to Growl, but maybe that becomes a more pet specific talent.
So, I agree that we step back and watch the evolution of our skills as the beta progresses. I'll adapt and learn to use what they ultimately give me as I have every other time. I'm just a bit concerned that there might be a push toward getting people into the PvP area and that's not what made this game great. It's the ability for someone to tailor it to fit their playing style.
MadMac10 Sep 12th 2008 12:49PM
Wow! This was puts so well. For the first time in quite a while, I get the feeling that I am not totally alone. IF I wanted to play an arena game, there are MANY better ones on Xbox (and sorry, WoW will never get to that level no matter how hard they try.) Personally, I am a little more than discouraged that upgrades to the game seem to exclusively cater to this type of player.
But that's okay, really! I will continue to explore PVE content in my slightly-less-than epic gear. I only hope to meet more players like Gimlette...
Perderedeus Sep 11th 2008 8:01PM
You're pinning your hopes on an assumption that everything will work out in the end. I have to say, things seldom work out for the benefit of a class in this state. But hey, Blizzard can prove me wrong at any moment and I welcome them to do so.
The new (latest) Aspect of the Viper is garbage, so goes the cry on the beta boards.
Camouflage details remain data-mined from early versions of the beta, nothing has gone live yet.
Kill Shot retains it's knockdown. Why? I don't know - the damage was nerfed, but apparently scales better, the cooldown remains... as does this silly consequence of using the skill. I don't see "Weapon Throw" causing a Warrior to fall on their butt.
LoS remains an issue, and I think those "two new abilities" are never coming. The 45-point 5/5 BM talent, Separation Anxiety, does little to nothing for LoS pet issues - the issues being that the hunter can do no damage when out of LoS and their pet is very vulnerable *overall* to focus-fire. Pets are a 'mini class' now, but they share little of their hunter's stats... and none of their resilience.
As Stereo said, Hunters have been in the doghouse for 4 Arenas seasons with very few, if any, improvements. Adding an MS effect to Aimed Shot is NOT an improvement we wanted and it did very little to help. Pet talents? They should have been in for TBC, because the pet training mechanic has been kludgy and un-fun since launch...
Etc, etc. People don't realize how bad hunters have had it until they play one and look at all the little things we've had to put up with, all we've had to do without, and all the nerfs we've had to swallow.
Starstrike Sep 11th 2008 8:44PM
"People don't realize how bad hunters have had it until they play one and look at all the little things we've had to put up with, all we've had to do without, and all the nerfs we've had to swallow"
I think that is the main problem right there. No matter how much we try to explain the situation, either they dont care, dont believe us, or say something about we are OP and should be nerfed more.
On forums there is always someone who has to chime in with "you guys just complain too much, l2p noob" which is very very annoying.
hunters are one of the easiest classes to lvl solo with, but good for not much else at this point.
Hombre Sep 12th 2008 8:55AM
Ok, that's a bit over the top here, Starstrike. "[Hunters are] good for not much else [than levelling] at this point" is simply untrue. We do extremely high damage in PvE and are one of the most effective killing classes in unorganized battleground PvP.
The one big problem for hunters until the end of TBC is Arena. The "l2p noob" argument loses all its power when you look at participation figures for hunters in arenas, especially at higher ratings. Some more Blizzard attention for Arena hunters would be very welcome.
huntardo Sep 11th 2008 8:14PM
"I'm still hoping for some sort of homing-missile ability that can shoot around pillars. "
Homing Beacon:
You tag the enemy with a Homing Beacon that will guide your next three shoots to the target.Your shot will follow the target in any direction and around solid objects within a 39 yards radius.After three hits or 30 seconds the beacon will explode dealing "X" Natural Damage.Last 30 seconds
actodd Sep 11th 2008 8:36PM
[quote]One thing we need to recognize when we acknowledge our caster-ness (casterocity? casterfication?) "[/quote]
Castration
El_Scorch0 Sep 12th 2008 12:48PM
Well said.
Osram Sep 11th 2008 9:34PM
Line of sight
When our pets are so well trained, why cant they do a simple fetch or chase..? Let our pet get the ability to fetch ore chase the guy behind the pillar..
Heenk Sep 11th 2008 9:23PM
David, you do not seem to grasp that if we did not QQ the class WOULD go live as it is currently written.
crackrat Sep 11th 2008 10:00PM
They could give us line of sight from our pets. That would be awesome.
Gimia Sep 12th 2008 6:28PM
Fricking sharks with fricking lasers attached to their fricking heads?
Kakistocracy Sep 11th 2008 10:03PM
Camouflaged Sounds interesting. I heard mages were told they would be able to stealth around in TBC... then we got invisibility, better luck to you hunters.
Lygion Sep 11th 2008 10:31PM
Line of sight ?
Let's hope they fix it outside of the arena as well. It makes no sense that I can shoot a Talbuck through a tree but can't shoot the mob right in front of me because a blasted, two pieces of wood tied together and called a railing, is standing between us. Doesn't "Line of Sight" mean " If I can see it,I should be able to shoot it full of holes"?
Kalabus Sep 11th 2008 10:31PM
I enjoy my hunter imensily but I do have some issues not mainly with the new talents and skills that seemed like a change and then told , nope your getting less. My concern is with old problems that remain problems.
while other classes recieve re-vamps and overhauls the hunter problems just stay that. Blizzard looks at a problem and says... K maybe instead of fixing that problem and make you happy lets give you another ability to try to rectify the issue with your current ability. Then they look at the new ability and say .... Ummmm maybe this new ability is to much, so lets nerf it..... at least all the hunters will have more problems now and wont be able to qq enough to wory about the old problems.
What are these problems you might ask.
One is LOS lets be honest its complete BS... when I can get hit by a spell caster through objects withought wory of los but I get riped off when they tuck tail run and use it against me. Hell blizzard says were a magic class, so even the f.... playing field and let us do what other mage classes get away with.
my second problem is in abilities like track hidden.... what is the point to this ability, Ive yet to figure it out. It doesnt track nothing and welll Its just pointless. maybe it means that your tracking in the mini map is Hidden,,, wow that makes more sense. Blizzard needs to just get rid of this or make it work
Third problem is in Arena or PVP is Hunters mark,. its like suposed to make it imposible for stealth to take effect as it states in the text but this is not true because Blizzard has alowed classes to overule this ability. its like a game of war with cards and just when you think you have the high card and going to win you realise the person your playing with left the jokers in the deck and is like nope... jokers beat everything, I think blizzard should look strongly at there abilities and utilities on all classes and fix the old problems first. specialy the last one, Its like Im stun locked , yay for me got out scatters shot hunters mark and ...... wait wtf, hes gone again .... wait there he is stun locking me again..... Yup I died.... Yay why do I have these abilities anyways.
-This is why people role others classes , or only hang out with other hunters.
sam Sep 11th 2008 11:14PM
id like to say track hidden works..i see rogues from far enough away to react...sometimes hehe
and on kill shot..what is with the knock back...physicly its not like we are hit by our own bow (unless u use guns)
cause..i know using my engineer rocket could accually knock me back, haha
Eliminatesu Sep 12th 2008 1:35AM
The problem with Blizzards mana solutions are that they require way to much time and mana themselves.
I think this is how Blizzard pictures it. I'm going into Battle with Aspect of the Hawk, I blow my front end. My target gets within close range as quickly as possible to neutralize my ranged advantage remembering that they're trying to win themselves and I switch to Aspect of the Monkey. Then I use my traps, my short range Scatter Shot (MM) and Wing Clip to get away or to finish them off Hahahaha!. Or I'm low on mana, so I switch to Aspect of the Viper while kiting away to a ranged position from where I'll pop that final Concussive, Arcane, Steady Shot FTW! See how perfectly is meshes together shining light.
Heres the reality; I head into Battle with Aspect of the Viper because I know that without it I'll be below 30% before I hit Melee. ( I also have on Track Hidden I never use the others, since it's rogues and stealthed Druids teammates that I'm really afraid of) Bladefist's Breadth, Hunter's Mark, Aimed, Auto, Arcane, Concussive, Auto, Steady, Steady, fires off my opening macros. Aimed reduces healing and adds that extra damage, Arcane for the burst (getting the jump on an anticipated cooldown), Concussive to slow their inevitable approach, which adds a bonus to my x2 Steady Shots because the targets stunned, so long as lag doesn't effect the timing of the second Shot too badly, this will opening will put them below 50% health.
Now they're within Melee range running circles around me trying their best to win, so I Scatter Shot, but they break it because they know it's coming, or they ignore it and LOL at me. I try to run but I've been slowed somehow. I drop a Freezing Trap combined Feign Death macro. Because that trap needs 2 seconds to arm and I need to break target before they unload that first big assualt. This buys me time but a simple click or auto target has me back in their sights, I'm running now but I'm not going anywhere fast. I spam for Silencing Shot and don't even notice that I'm out of mana because I'm trying to figure out how to get them back below 50% health, since they just spammed healed or potted.
Desperately I change to Aspect of the Monkey... It's a me-or-you-buddy last resort move on my part with a lovely GCD to boot, it's now my bare back empty mana pool and global cooldowns against whatever it is you use to finish me off. Go Pet!
Remember I'm not fighting a pin cushion, my opponents know me and they're using they're best spells precisely when they need to, just as I have done. They know what I'm capable of, just as I know what they're capable of, that's why I need to kill them before they heal, DoT, stun lock, Charge or Bash me into Melee ranged combat. Melee, stuns and enemy heals equal game over noobster. After they've healed I just don't have the mana let alone the timing opportunity to damage them that well again. And so what if I did, what didn't work the first time will hardly fair better the second.