Things don't look pretty for PvP Hunters in 8926
The best thing you can say about Hunters in Wrath in this Beta build is that we still have the new Disengage, at least for now. In this build, most of our new PvP tools have had much of their new functionality removed or greatly scaled back in this build.
Master's Call has lost its ability to be used while stunned, while Deterrence has lost its ability to resist magic damage. These two abilities that respectively helped us get away from stun-locking Rogues and resist magical focus fire have suddenly lost most of their luster. They were supposedly meant to help us shore up some major weaknesses in PvP, and all of a sudden, most of their most important utility is gone. The Deterrence nerf puts us essentially right back where we were in Anti-caster abilities. Our hope again is to take down the casters before they can take us down. We once again have no real defense against a focused caster barrage.
Kill Shot now deals 200% weapon damage plus [RAP * 0.3 + 400.0] instead of weapon damage plus [RAP * 0.15 + 2500.0]. Most of the use of this Shot in PvP is gone. Without the massive bonus damage, it doesn't have much chance of actually slaying a fleeing target any more than Arcane Shot does, and Arcane Shot has the advantage of ignoring armor and not knocking down the Hunter when he shoots it. In PvP, I may just keep Kill Shot off my bar and deal with Arcane Shot. I have no reason to make myself vulnerable to fire such a relatively weak shot.
Aspect Mastery has been stripped as well. Aspect of the Monkey now reduces the damage done to you while active by 5%, down from 10%, while Aspect of the Hawk only increases the attack power bonus by 30%, down from 50%. This has honestly put this talent right down into no use taking territory for me. Once again, I'd rather use it to grab Aimed Shot or round out a skill like Focused Aim than take miniscule bonuses to a still hopelessly clunky Aspect system.
Aspect of the Viper has a new functionality that has many Hunters asking that it be kept how it is on Live. Now each ranged attack regenerates a percentage of maximum mana equal to base ranged weapon speed, down from 100% of damage done. This technically might not be too bad. Given a 3.0 speed weapon with some decent haste, we could be talking roughly 3% of maximum mana every 2 seconds. Given a mana pool of about 10k, that's 300 mana every 2 seconds.
That said, the aspect still incurs 50% less damage. Without the near instant energy-bar like regeneration of the 100% Aspect of the Viper, I don't think that 50% less damage is justified. The newest AoTV only slightly edges out the live version of Aspect of the Viper for mana regeneration per tick, and has no mana regeneration in downtime or while the Hunter is on the move. To add a 50% damage penalty to this simply will not do. It's far too harsh a penalty for what is only a slight situational upgrade that depends on being able to autoshoot while stationary. This is especially harsh in PvP, where a Hunter is constantly on the move and rarely has time to stand in one place and autoshoot. The new Aspect of the Viper makes it incredibly hard for a PvP Hunter to see much mana regeneration, which will be a severe handicap in any long Arena match.
Just in case you hoped to have talents pick up the slack on that mana regeneration, be warned, those got some nerfs too. For example, Invigoration now only grants 1% of your max mana back.
The early Survival Tree is also looking bad for PvP Hunters as well, as Lock and Load now only works on one shot, and TNT's critical strike bonus have been slashed to a 9% maximum, while the stun chance works only when the trap lands.
If there's one ray of hope, Koraa has come out and said that they will be reversing some of these changes next patch. For example, Lock and Load will be bumped back up to 2 charges and proc off sting ticks. Still, he also said many will stay, which is disconcerting. I'm not as down on the future of Hunters as some are after this patch, but I am discouraged. We went from having a good chance to finally crawl out of the Arena basement, to nearly right back where we were.
Hopefully, this next build will reverse enough of these changes that the optimism comes back again, but for now, I'm not too thrilled. May PvP testing reveal these changes for what they really are, if only so they can be changed quickly before live.
Filed under: Hunter, Patches, Analysis / Opinion, News items, PvP, Expansions, Wrath of the Lich King, Arena






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
JohnC Sep 11th 2008 4:17AM
i keep getting told to reroll as hunters have not future in pvp, perhaps theres some truth in it now.
all they have to do is make auto shot able to cast while moving and we'll be fine. otherwise if you are kiting(trying to get away) from a target all you can do at the moment is concussive, serpent sting or arcane them. serpent is pointless to keep using as its less mana efficient and you keep stacking them. so that means every 6-12 secs you can deal damage while trying to escape
tarveren Sep 11th 2008 4:21AM
So anything worth looking forward to as far as reconciling the imbalance Hunters are suffering in 2v2 Arenas is no longer available?
Looks like Hunters will remain where they are in that bracket, underrepresented...
Ahanix Sep 11th 2008 4:28AM
Lock and load with explosive shot and TNT are the only reason Im even going to level my hunter. Its something new that make me excited to play my hunter again.
I've already got my Lock and Load Macro ready for my dwarf :(
Please keep it awesome!
quendil Sep 11th 2008 4:41AM
This is totally unnacceptable! As a PVE player i can hardly believe the new implementation of AoTV...
The amount of mana returned is just too small and damage during AoTV sounds like the doom of hunters. And if you consider that you still have to cast some shots (and spend mana) during AoTV, that makes the returned amount of mana even lower!!!
They should really make some changes to that. For example, let the damage output to 100% and let all shots cost no mana while undet the effects of AoTV.
All i can say is thank god for levelling a paladin as well.... i might go for a change when wotlk arrives...
Thomolithic Sep 11th 2008 7:29AM
Damage output to 100% with no mana used?! Wouldn't that totally negate the need for hunters to have mana in the first place?
PeeWee Sep 11th 2008 9:22AM
@quendil
"let the damage output to 100% and let all shots cost no mana while undet the effects of AoTV."
Retarded suggestion is retarded. Sorta like this comments system.
Balius Sep 11th 2008 4:45AM
It's important to recognize that every encounter has two sides, not just the side you personally play most. Yes, a skill that allowed a hunter to escape from snares, roots, and stuns on a short cooldown would have been great for hunters, but what about classes that rely on those mechanics to stay viable in PVP? All the sudden the hunter class goes from being imbalanced one way to being imbalanced the other way, which is not what Blizzard is looking for in the game, and not what Hunters should be looking for either.
Buffs and nerfs are both important for finding the right blend to keep everyone happy and keep the game more balanced, and the current settings, like all the settings that came before, aren't final. If you're in the Beta, don't complain, explain your actual experiences using the skills, and programmers will be more likely to listen.
Kwipper Sep 11th 2008 4:59AM
And this is one of the many reasons why I don't play WoW anymore....
rugus Sep 11th 2008 6:09AM
Sure, and you keep reading a wow-related site. Reroll your mind.
lazarel Sep 11th 2008 9:21AM
Reroll your brain... I love it. Gonna use it.
Raze Sep 11th 2008 5:40AM
I think they think that all Hunters need to be happy a few new pets every beta patch or two.
I don't PVP, but nothing there really hurts me beyond the Viper change, which is terrible. Soloing just got that much more irritating....
Jaikara Sep 11th 2008 5:47AM
I agree with you Ahanix... I've been totally loving the Trap, Lock & Load then Explosive Shot combo, which can deal massive damage and finally gives me something to smile about being a Hunter. I have been dreaming about using this to melt faces but it's looking like Blizz are going to turn my smile back around and into a frown. :(
Tridus Sep 11th 2008 5:48AM
The new Kill Shot really does less damage then Arcane Shot? I find it hard to believe that 200% weapon damage plus a smaller scaling factor is actually less then Arcane Shot (but with no access to beta I could be wrong).
Eternalpayn Sep 11th 2008 8:55AM
Exactly. I think the author is ingoring the enormous amount of attack power that gear will have. Double AP Scaling sounds better in my opinion.
Chris Anthony Sep 11th 2008 9:31AM
No, you're right; Arcane Shot 9 deals [(RAP * 0.15) + 492] without talents, and Kill Shot deals (weapon damage * 2) + [(RAP * 0.3) + 400]. I don't think there's any circumstance where Kill Shot will do less damage than an untalented Arcane Shot.
However, Kill Shot doesn't do *much* more damage than Arcane Shot (previously, Kill Shot was (weapon damage) + [(RAP * 0.15) + 2500], which was a marked improvement); it doesn't ignore armor like Arcane Shot does; and it has a knockdown effect, which renders the hunter vulnerable for two seconds after he casts it.
For a shot that dealt a minimum of 2500 damage, the knockdown and lack of armor piercing were acceptable. Without that massive damage output, Daniel's assessment of its relative utility is just about spot-on.
Tehilatos Sep 11th 2008 5:54AM
Common guys your QQ is allmost worse than the
warlocks and its unfounded to boot...
Just becouse you cant solo every single class in under 2 sec dont mean that you nead a huge buff. All classes exept mabey druids struggle against one or two other classes and thats called balance... it just means that you nead to get better att playing your class....
Marc Sep 11th 2008 8:13AM
Go look up Arena stats. Hunters are at the bottom in every bracket, which obviously implies a problem. Don't argue with fact.
Kalabus Sep 11th 2008 9:08AM
its funny how you talk about hunters complaining lol, have you seen the new stuff coming out for other clases. while hunters get nerfed before we even get buffed, other will be getting even more power. The mage class for example if it doesnt get nerfed gets mirror image. The hunter class should be completely revamped and use more utilities that are to that class or even Idea of the class. lets be honest theres way to much shots comming out than one hunter needs.
The major issues with the hunter class is that there skills only work with ranged attacks, but is that even true. I was lvling up my thrown weapon skill and then I was left with no utility. I think that aimed shot could be Used with a throwing knife along with a lot of other skill, but this is not the case.
Dreadbeard Sep 11th 2008 9:45AM
No one is suggesting that hunters be able to solo anyone, and frankly, if you'd bother to read the WOTLK beta forums you'd notice that the hunters who are testing these things are the first to admit that they do NOT want the class to become so over-powered that we end up with the same situation when TBC dropped. The whining that ensued about how dominant level 60 hunters were caused Blizz to over react and send the class into a slow spiral. Now we see it happening yet again. Many people point to the near impossible task of trying to balance PvP ability versus PvE viability and it appears that there's no way to do this without gimping hunters in one area or the other. So, with that in mind, it is childish to lazily accuse determined hunters of "qq" simply because they want to understand wtf the devs are thinking on some of these changes.
Faar Sep 11th 2008 6:20AM
If the changes in the latest patch makes it into live I see no reason whatsoever to try and make room for deterrence amongst the other umpteen dozens of hunter abilities crowding my action bars already.
I see no reason for master's call either.
With the recent nerfs they become too situational in nature, it's not worth keeping them around if you only find use for them in a small subset of situations you find yourself in, not when there's so many other abilities competing for global cooldowns in a PvP situation - which is what these were devised to be used in.
Kind of like the new tranq shot, now that arcane shot no longer dispels. Tranq dispels - but deals no damage. And you still have no control over what exactly it dispels, it dispels SOMETHING, for a large mana cost on a long cooldown. And you burnt a global cooldown without causing any damage to the target...
No, I'm not impressed at all by this.