Lichborne: Dual wielding and weapon scaling
Welcome to Lichborne, your (slighty late this week) weekly window into the zen of being a Death Knight.
As the dev team works to firm up Death Knights and get them ready for release, there is a debate that rages on among beta testers and the Death Knight community at large. I don't mean whether the recent huge nerf to Death Knight damage was justified. Rather, the argument I'm talking about is over the clash of 2-handers and dual wielding.
2-handers have been the Death Knight weapon of choice in the modern era of the game up until recently. Frostmourne, the ultimate Death Knight weapon, is a massive two-handed claymore. In the early to middle part of the classic end game, Baron Rivendare was the Death Knight that loomed large in everyone's thoughts, and he too wielded a much coveted two-handed runeblade.
Because of this, many Death Knights have no plans to ever pick up 2 weapons. The massive bloody two-handed runeblade is the classic Death Knight emblem. It's part of the lore and the feel of the class and, they say, there's no reason to change it.. At the same time, many other Death Knights say that dual wielding is here to stay. New prominent Death Knights such as Lord Darion Morgraine dual wield. It's now part of the lore, and 2-handed lovers should just suck it up.
The Nitty Gritty of Scaling
Of course, beyond the arguments related to RP and lore are the arguments related to scaling and viability. Ghostcrawler has said that dual wielding and 2-handed weapons should be interchangeable and equal at the end game. Whether this is actually achievable is very much in doubt.
Once you have adequate hit rating, for pure DPS, dual wielding traditionally works better. Dual wielding does more overall white damage. For Death Knights, talents like Necrosis and Blood Caked Blade will scale better with dual wielding. AP scales better with dual wielding. While we do have many weapon-damage related strikes that scale better with 2 handers, there's some question as to whether they will scale well enough to keep up in the end game.
Death Knights are hardly the only class to face such a problem. Most DPS Warriors go for dual wielding Fury these days for min-maxing purposes, with the odd 2-handed Arms Warriors mostly for Blood Frenzy. However, Ghostcrawler has made it clear that the devs want both keep equal, so that an individual Death Knight can choose either for PvP or PvE. But to that, they'll have to make some choices as to what to nerf or buff to obtain that equality.
The Solution(s)
The choice the devs tried out in the latest beta build is to nerf some of the key talents that make dual wielding scale better. Necrosis was nerfed from 25% extra damage to only 10% extra damage, while Blood Caked Blade now only does 20% weapon damage plus an extra 10% damage for each disease on the target.
Unfortunately, this hasn't actually solved much. Since Necrosis still works off the exact same mechanic as before, it still scales better than 2-handers. As for Blood Caked Blade, well, it's pretty bad all around now, with wide reports of it coming dead last on almost every Death Knight's damage meters in a normal rotation. In other words, it's not even worth the 3 talent points now regardless of what your weapon preference may be.
As far as solutions they have yet to try, the most obvious is probably upping the base weapon damage percentage of certain strikes. Since Death Knights only count main hand attack damage in their weapon damage strikes, 2 handed weapons jump far ahead in calculating those.
The problem is, it's just not far enough ahead. Plague Strike, for example, only does 30% of weapon damage at base. Bumping these instant strikes up would definitely be a boost to 2-handed weapon damage.
But boosting instant weapon strikes brings up a whole new can of worms. There's some concern that boosting them far could make 2handers overpowered as compared to dual wielding, especially at lower levels. Adding more instant weapon strike damage could also push Death Knight burst damage into overpowered territory as well (Not that our burst damage is too amazing right now, according to some). So it's a delicate balancing act on that end as well. Still, instant damage strike boosting may have to come sooner or later to keep 2-handed weapons competitive.
Dual Wield and Variety
As for me, I'm a 2-handed die hard. I don't mind dual wielding per se, and I won't say I won't experiment if two very nice one-handed weapons come my way, but I plan to stay 2-handed for my Death Knight career for both RP and play style reasons, and I wouldn't shed a tear if it disappeared from the Death Knight arsenal. I honestly have to wonder who it is who came up with dual wielding for Death Knights. It's rather shoehorned into the feel of the class from my way of thinking. There's not even a set of dual wield weapons rewarded out of Archerus quests.
Still, the devs seem to want it to stay, and a small but vocal faction of beta testers support it as well. Whether it's worth keeping dual wielding, though, is a question that's probably worth asking. Generally, the biggest argument for dual wielding as that Death Knights need the variety. Of course, the counter argument to this is that Death Knights do, in fact, have plenty of variety. They have 3 talent trees that, in theory, will each have a separate Tank and DPS build.
But there's a lot to be said for more variety too. A lot of Death Knights have been asking not only for a 2-hander only class, but for the ability to keep their original runeblade throughout their career as a Heirloom item due to its looks. That right there gives me pause. My first character was a Feral Druid, and he was my main through the early game, through 40 man raiding, and then through 10 man raiding after Burning Crusade came out. I had to stare at the same Bear model and the same Cat model the whole time. I don't want to repeat that on my Death Knight. From that point of view, maybe the option of duel wielding just for a change of pace is a good thing. Even if I'll never use, it's nice to have options.
Overall, dual wielding is probably here to stay. Here's hoping, though, that they can find the right balance so that I can face down Arthas with my 2-handed runeblade without feeling like a newbie for not dual wielding instead.
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Expansions, Raiding, Death Knight, Wrath of the Lich King, (Death Knight) Lichborne






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Kaphik Sep 15th 2008 9:11AM
Very nice column. I have the very same concerns. Perhaps the solution is in the threat generation, not necessarily the DPS.
As far as keeping the original runeblade, I am in favor of this. The Death Knight superior quality armor is one of the BEST looking armor sets in the game, as is the sword and axe. The sad thing is not too long after acquiring the set, DKs run off into Outland and begin building the clown suit that passes for armor out there.
Mattimus Sep 15th 2008 9:44AM
I'm also in favor of keeping a runeblade as an heirloom item in some way.
It's a Hero class after all, and all the Heroes in the lore have used the same weapon forever. Thrall has his Doomhammer, Arthas has Frostmourne, Mograine had Ashbringer, etc.
The Druid bear/cat forms are mediocre at best. They really need a boost in awesome-looking, at least at the higher levels... it's one thing to get tired of plain-looking Druid forms, but the DK Runeblade that they get at the end of their quests is really awesome looking, and the DKs stroll into Outland really looking like a Death Knight. I'd like to hold onto that.
Voodoo Sep 15th 2008 10:07AM
I agree 10 billion %. I hate the fact that, as of right now, pretty much as soon as you get the full Armor and Weapon set.. you then goto Outland and start loosing it within a few minutes, depending on how intent you are on trying to keep the set. Even the weapon's approx 60 DPS could be replaced before ever stepping foot in Outland with the Blade of Misfortune (68.8 DPS and 45 to Crit). I think it should be your choice if ya wanna keep the look and the new Heirloom item system would be 1 easy way to do this. Also, could be if ya wanna get rid of that awesome look then you can if ya want.
main point here, I agree.
-V
dan Sep 15th 2008 3:24PM
hmmm... voodoo, I can't think of a single death knight I know in beta, mine included, that upgraded in outland. The quest gear is designed to take you into northrend so you're not stuck doofing around in outland looking for specific drops, doing ridiculously long group questchains, etc.
Every meter I've seen so far suggests 2h does more dmg than dw at least given the itemization dk's have seen so far in beta.
Naix Sep 15th 2008 9:24AM
WHAT?!? The OPness of the death knight is being brought into line with other classes?!? You don't say.
kabshiel Sep 15th 2008 9:53AM
From what I hear, the OPness of DKs is now below other classes. If you want an OP class these days, roll a mage or paladin.
Lucas Sep 20th 2008 1:11AM
Truth. High level talents that do don't scale are killing that class.
Xero Sep 15th 2008 9:43AM
From my experiences, 2-handed is the way I will be going when I eventually get my DK. I just feel that dual-wielding (or anything that removes that great, big epic sword from hanging over my shoulder) takes away from that BA Death Knight feel.
kabshiel Sep 15th 2008 9:56AM
Unfortunately, as things currently stand, you'll be gimping your DPS if you stick with 2-handed weapons. DW just scales better and I'm not convinced that there's much that Blizzard can do about it. They can mess around with instant strike numbers all they want, but at some point DW always wins. All they can do is push that point back as far as possible.
Eternalpayn Sep 15th 2008 10:05AM
To say that blizzard can't do anything is completely ridiculous. They could equalize things so that on the white damage, the faster your weapon(s), the less it procs for. That way if I'm duel-wielding, it will hit for half the damage that it would if I was using a 2hander.
kabshiel Sep 15th 2008 10:55AM
I'm sure rogues, warriors, and shamans would be thrilled.
CannedBread Sep 15th 2008 8:09PM
Or they could just make all of the abilities work off of topend, like Plague strike.
I.E. - Necrosis adds 10% of your topend in shadow damage etc.
and honestly, Blood-Caked Blade had potential, and it now sucks...
Fireflash38 Sep 15th 2008 9:52AM
That scaling is the reason why you never see any 2h enh shaman anymore (outside of pre-40).
The key difference though is the dependence of shaman on SS and WF (and keeping up flurry/UR), all of which gain more from DW rather than 2H.
Since they are giving so much attention to death knights' balance with DW and 2H, is it too much to ask that they at least try a bit for shaman as well?
Eisengel Sep 15th 2008 5:37PM
@Fireflash38
*mindblown* I never played a Shammy, although I know a few and have certainly seen them around in WoW... and I have never... ever seen a Shammy wielding a 2-hander. I didn't even know they could.
Lucas Sep 24th 2008 9:48PM
NO.
Shamans talents all point toward dual weild.
The 2H thing is just a novelty or for pre 40 shamans.
Please dont bring shit like this up.
Axxam Sep 15th 2008 9:56AM
So, maybe like the Shaman class, we'll have to take advanced mathematics classes to find out what is the best way to use the DK in dps? ;)
SaintStryfe Sep 15th 2008 12:01PM
Not unless you get a hidden, undiscovered swing timer added to your primary damage dealer like Shaman did to WF.
schwonga Sep 15th 2008 9:58AM
I mostly like the idea of a 2h better than dual because of the look and... well quite frankly I'm a newb with dps crunching numbers when it comes to dual vs. 2h and just having one weapon seems simpler than two.
The only reason why I'd switch to a dual wield is if I find a 1h that trounces my 2h at the time, then go find a decent off hand for a while.
Xero Sep 15th 2008 10:12AM
Maybe I'll just use DW to fight (PvP and PvE) and just have a bold looking 2H to set in town with so I get the sweet look and the dps
Hydden Sep 15th 2008 10:20AM
I'd like to see the talent trees to differentiate between the two - for each tree to have both options, but for example you'd have talents for either a Blood 2H, or a Blood DW.
e.g.
"Bonecrushing - your 2H weapons have X% chance to crush your target's armor, reducing their movement speed by X% and causing your next Blood Strike or Heart Strike on that target to ignore X% of their armor."
"Bloodletting - your critical strikes with 1H weapons cause the target to bleed for X damage over X secs and healing you for X% of the bleed damage. Stacks up to X times."