Forum post of the day: I'm just not that into you
by Amanda Dean 
Sep 17th 2008 at 1:00PM
Tymestryker of Aerie Peak is frustrated because players are leaving his guild. Despite his loyalty to the guild and the effort he's put into the guild, he's facing some significant churn. His guild, though apparently a friendly, social place lacks in endgame experience. He seems to be taking it personally that people are leaving for guilds in endgame progression. He feels that others should share his loyalty.
Many responders pointed out that heart only goes so far in World of Warcraft, but there's a lot more to the game. Most successful guilds have a purpose, maybe doing regular raids or being the best they can be at PvP. Some suggested that the original poster chose not to take the situation personally.
I've bounced around to a number of guilds in my two and a half years of WoW experience. I've left a guild for insulting my (now ex) boyfriend. I've left over drama , discomfort and boredom. I feel bad for leaving when someone has made a genuine effort to help me. I just can't bring myself to stay in a guild that fails to mesh with my goals and personality. I'm currently in a guild on a new server that I'm trying to help gain some momentum in preparation for the next endgame.
What do you look for in a guild and what drives you away?
Filed under: Fan stuff, Guilds, Forums, Forum Post of the Day
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Pappy Sep 17th 2008 1:16PM
I know I'll be flamed but....
/sigh at casuals.
runawaypianist Sep 17th 2008 1:27PM
No more casuals equals /end to WoW. Sorry.
Arcaria Sep 17th 2008 1:27PM
So you have a problem with people who have real lives is what you're saying? I think an even better way to look at your comment is that you have to step into a fantasy life in order to have a smidgen of self-esteem.
/sigh at losers
Charlie Sep 17th 2008 1:48PM
You can be casual without raiding casually. You sir, are just ignorant.
Anyways, in response to the OP. I've been in the same situation, only on the other side. My GM is still angry at me for leaving (granted, i was an officer). But the fact is that the guild was not run well, and I was not up to the task of changing it. After i left it took them 6 months to down Gruul and Mag (and mag was post-nerf). There doing better now, 4/6 SSC and 2/4 TK, but i jumped to a guild who just got down archimonde.
Charlie Sep 17th 2008 1:50PM
WI needs an edit button...
Anyways, my point is that you can have a great guild with great people, but raiding is a different story. If your main objective is raiding, and your progression has stalled, people are going to leave, no matter how loyal people are.
Xero Sep 17th 2008 1:23PM
Having my own guild and getting people to stay and/or recruit new people is always hard. We try and focus on the current picture rather than the big picture, although endgame is always on our minds. Talking about downing bosses in SWP is always fun and would be really amazing, but killing the boss thats right in front of us is what's most important.
With Wrath in November, we are changing our goals to be based more so on server firsts and top honors in many aspects. But for now, we just have fun and raid what we can while trying to see how few people we can clear vanilla-WoW raids with.
Manatank Sep 17th 2008 1:28PM
I've always been perplexed by the GMs that seem to think they deserve to have a guild when it seems the only reason they wanted to be a GM was the attention. I mean if the guild is going no where, and the guild roster ends up being nothing more than a friends list, then why be upset when people move on to DO something in WoW? It isn't like you can't still talk to them and have them in your friends list. If gchat is just a glorified chat channel, then just create a chat channel for your friends list. There is no need for a guild.
GMs who take it personally clearly were only in it for the ego trip. If your guild has no purpose in WoW, then there is nothing for people to have loyalty to. It isn't a gang. Your guild isn't your friends list on facebook. Grow up.
jeremiah johnson Sep 17th 2008 4:19PM
eh don't be so harsh. for some GMs, being a GM is the only reason to play the game. They enjoy guiding the guild to better gear or what have you. It's not always a fancy friends list.
Manatank Sep 17th 2008 5:52PM
Well nice folks like that shouldn't have a problem with people not needing the help anymore and moving on to do other things. After the help isn't needed then all that remains is the social aspect of the guild, which can be maintained with chat channels and friends lists without a common tag under people's names.
What I don't get are the social guilds that cut ties with people who leave to raid. It isn't like progress in the game keeps them from being the same person they were when they were in the social guild. Why do they have to be in your guild to be your friend? It sometimes feels like a very primitive tribe mentality. The worst of it usually comes from casual GMs who see their guild roster as some kind of in game achievement. It is as though the only reason they started the guild was to see how many people they could recruit. The churn in these guilds is often high.
rageundersilk Sep 17th 2008 1:33PM
I thought the video there was actually pretty epic. These days, I'm sure there's far better videos that could be used to sell WoW but this one really ain't bad at all. I can easily see the storyline of five different heroes, banding together, for one last epic fight against the forces of the Horde. It's a fantasy classic, but the classics are the ones that pull at the heart strings with nostalgia. And they're classics for a reason, they evoke something that keeps us coming back.
rageundersilk Sep 17th 2008 1:36PM
And apparently I'm an utter noob because I commented on the wrong article. So... feel free to ignore me... ;)
Bones Sep 17th 2008 1:35PM
Fundamentally he's missing the point. WoW is a game. If your enjoyment of the game is linked to raiding and end game then remaining in a guild that is not dedicated to that end is somewhat pointless. Likewise if you're burned out on raiding and in a raid guild then staying in is likely to be less fun than switching to a more casual environment.
Loyalty to a guild is marvelous, but since wow is entertainment, it's not really feasible to stay in a guild that is not entertaining you.
Knid Sep 17th 2008 1:38PM
It's a difficult game. In some ways it feels like you need to set up an organization that either has concrete goals or none at all. Casual guilds that are able to attract good, friendly people will find that some days you'll be able to run good raids and other days you won't. The inconsistency drives the regulars crazy and eventually make them leave or stop trying to make events happen. Raid or pvp guilds attract players with similar goals and can therefore build upon those goals.
I am hoping my next foray into the next guild can be with friendly people and definite 10-man goals. I've recently rejoined some friends after being a 'casual' for the last several months. I really think that with 10-man goals, people will be able to play with their friends and not recruit people they don't mesh with based on guild needs. So far, we've got a ton of people willing to play tank and healing roles that newer members could take on any role. No longer will ZA be the pinnacle of instances you can do with closer friends.
Fletch Sep 17th 2008 1:41PM
Being constantly pestered for 'boosts' by low level players. It's not so bad if they are polite, but a lot treat it like it is some divine right. Nowadays, I will only join guilds that just recruit high-level players.
Bugz Sep 17th 2008 2:02PM
I know exactly what you mean. I was running Gruuls when in guild chat this lowbie asked me for a run in a snarky way. I told him if he can look me up and see that I'm 70, he can also look me up and see that im in Gruuls. He responded saying ''So what? you're too lazy to come out here?'' and I responded with ''You're too lazy to quest?'' He didn't like it, and we've been on bad terms ever since. He just hit 70 so things in might be getting interesting for our guild.
Liel Sep 17th 2008 1:54PM
My first ever guild when I started the game right after launch was my online home for a while. Back when I was a nub and did not know a lot about the game the guild was a good fit for me.
Later I was bored to tears because back then there was nothing and I mean nothing to do unless you raided so a few members including myself decided to leave together to join a raiding guild as a group. Our GM left so much of the guild management to us since he was pretty unreliable he never even showed up for 5 mans he scheduled himself.
So we leave, and he decides to join the old guild in with the one we joined and bad mouthed the hell out of us.
Aw drama.
Ilnara Sep 17th 2008 2:03PM
I again blame the guild system this game employs.
At no point does it reward loyalty, the game itself seems to ignore it. It's a very large pitfall of a game that claims it's a "Socially oriented multi-player Game" because nothing about the game encourages grouping or continued loyalty to groups once you have what you want. Get your purples, quit raiding, and do whatever you want.
Personally, I've never seen the allure of running headlong towards brick walls then standing there and beating your head against them repeatedly (End game). It does the same thing to every guild I've ever been in, or been around, or seen via friends from the outside.
It's just not worth it.
Speedmonkay Sep 17th 2008 3:59PM
Why should a game reward loyalty to a guild ? How do you suggest it could reward loyalty ? That there just sounds ridiculous. If anything the GM and officers should set up bonuses for loyalty by advancement or something, but it shouldnt be anything Blizzard impliments.
I think FFXI handled "guilds" the best. They call them linkshells on there. A player starts one and they give sacks to their officers, who can then make and hand out linkpearls to member. Have the pearl in your inventory and set that linkshell as your active one. Wanna switch from an endgame linkshell to a casual one with friends ? Just change your active linkpearl. That way you never really have to leave one for the other.
Bugz Sep 17th 2008 2:11PM
I was in a hardcore raiding guild for the longest time. In fact it got a little too hardcore for me and I got burned out so I took a break. After I came back I left that guild and joined a guild full of friends from real life. I actually prefer this guild. They're in Karazhan right now, and even though I outgear Kara, its still fun running with them. Its easier for them too because I main tank for them. Like you, I have plans for WotLK endgame with this guild.
Liel Sep 17th 2008 2:47PM
That is my plan as well, with the addition of 10 mans being the same bosses as 25 mans it is allowing myself and coworkers and real life friends to play and advance more casually and at least see the content if we work together. I really did not care for the loot anyways but wanted to see the fights themselves.