Group buffs should last through death
by Eliah Hecht 
Sep 24th 2008 at 3:00PM
Wrath of the Lich King is fixing a lot of minor annoyances that have been present in the game since launch. Things like Entangling Roots being changed to work indoors, or clams stacking. They're also introducing a system to selectively modify spells: glyphs. Most spells seem to have a glyph that makes them better in some way, including the group buffs Prayer of Fortitude, Gift of the Wild, and Arcane Brilliance (there is no glyph for Prayer of Spirit right now, and Prayer of Shadow Protection has never been taken seriously).
The group buffs are all simply more convenient versions of single-target buffs the classes possess. The single-target buffs hit one target and last for half an hour, while the group buffs hit the whole raid (up from one group in BC), last an hour, and require a reagent. The glyphs for the group buffs that have them all reduce their mana cost by 50%, which is a reasonable benefit for a minor glyph.
However (and now I'm finally getting to my point), I think it would be better if the glyph let the buffs last through death, instead of or in addition to its mana reduction. It's annoying to have to rebuff everybody after a wipe, and while the buffs hitting the whole raid will help that a lot, it's still a bit irritating. I don't think it would be imbalanced to only have to rebuff once every hour, and it would make me a lot less irritated on those progression raids or bad pugs. Think of it like flask buffs. And isn't the point of group buffs convenience?
Filed under: Raiding, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Ed (Sindarin, Hydraxis US) Sep 24th 2008 3:07PM
It'd make me *far* more likely to give out group buffs in BGs if they made this change.
Shisho Sep 25th 2008 8:18AM
I think that's the point. Your unwillingness or inability to buff people is the same as not healing or providing other benefits to players on your team. It hinders them and contributes to losing or making the game more difficult to win.
So a team with no priests will have to fight a team that will continually have to fight against a team with waves and waves of players with Fort / Spr / Shd Prot with only a single effort made their priest at the beginning of the game?
What about purge though? The persist through death won't matter, you're still going to find your initial buffs dispelled on a whim by enemy shamans and priests.
neadamthal Sep 25th 2008 8:46AM
lame... i always give out group buffs in BGs... (AV excluded since that gets too expensive)... what's 80s per AB/EOTS/WSG.... meh.
but in BGs i think this would not be a good change. when you die in BG you should not start with buffs from before you died IMHO.
peagle Sep 24th 2008 3:11PM
Anything that reduces down time between raid wipes gets an A+ from me.
Dotixi Sep 24th 2008 3:13PM
I'd like to see glyphs do something besides reduce costs or increase durations, so I really like the idea purposed here.
Heck, where are all the fun glyphs?
nbcaffeine Sep 24th 2008 3:22PM
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=43379
I can't wait for this to be implemented in game. If it is, I haven't seen it, and I've asked every Scribe I've met for it.
Dotixi Sep 24th 2008 3:42PM
@nbcaffeine
As far as I know minor glyphs are still not in the Beta but that is a fun glyph for a Rogue. Though, as a shaman, I can already walk on water. :P
Nick S Sep 24th 2008 3:14PM
It's a huge change... I don't know.
Battlegrounds, battle-rezzing, soulstones... all of these would be drastically changed by through-death buffs.
ash Sep 24th 2008 3:15PM
Thats a good idea
kitty3572 Sep 24th 2008 3:17PM
buffing is irritating but i don't see what the big problem is...it helps you pay attention and it's great that they are lasting an hour now. seems like everyone wants to be spoon-fed. what's next? i just want to press "1" key for the entire raid...more keys are just irritating and time consuming.
on the other hand, it would be nice if buffs could last on bg's..there's just no way to keep everyone buffed.
Tech Sep 24th 2008 3:19PM
I think that is a great idea, you should make a post on the suggestion forums and link it here so everyone that agrees with you can sign it.
Randolyn Sep 24th 2008 3:18PM
Druids, priests, and mages have the gall to complain about buffing during raids.
And I tell them, "Unless you play a paladin, I don't want to hear ANYONE whine about buffing. EVER."
Until you have to listen to a boomkin, a tree, and a bear in the same raid that all want individualized blessings every 10 minutes, you don't know the meaning of the word annoying.
Alizar Sep 24th 2008 3:34PM
/agree
I never even had an end game pally, but even in low level dungeons I found it annoying. Not so bad when you have 25 man each pally usually is in charge of a buff.
Mitch Sep 24th 2008 3:38PM
Quiet down and hurry up on my 10 minute Might.
=P
Chris Anthony Sep 24th 2008 3:44PM
If it makes you feel better, Randolyn, my reagents (as a priest) are almost seven times as expensive as yours.
Vylemacer Sep 24th 2008 7:06PM
^^ This.
Simon Sep 24th 2008 3:58PM
Chris Anthony, but your buffs last twice as long and you buff per group and not per class. So for a full raid that's 5 buffs per hour versus 9 buffs per half hour, in ideal cases. Anyway, reagent cost should be of no concern if you have half a brain since we got dailies. It's the variety and duration of pala buffs that can get frustrating. Thank god there is PallyPower, it takes away most of the pain ;)
Braundo Sep 24th 2008 4:05PM
Even worse if you were around in the days of only having 5-minute single-target blessing with no Greater versions at all :)
Schadow Sep 24th 2008 6:27PM
@Simon:
I am amazed you haven't yet discovered the joy of ZOMG buffs.
For individual blessings you just select the person and put the baby blessing on them. ZOMG automatically assigns that person as an exception the class. It can link to a hotkey, so whenever it tells you a new buff is needed, you just press your button and it does its thing. Greater, lesser, whatever - it just does it.
Rebuffing a raid, I can give the cats and chickens salv, the bears kings, and the trees wisdom just by hitting the same button 3 times.
It has a blessings manager, so you can communicate buff assignments to other paladins running it. It also has templates, so you can hit everyone with Kings when in BGs without messing up your party or raid buffs.
Saelorn Sep 24th 2008 3:22PM
The buff system currently works on a "kick 'em while they're down" premise; if you can manage one of the three methods of recovering from death during combat, you will only be half as effective until the end of the fight.
Meanwhile, every battle is tuned with the assumption that all buffs are on all characters at all times.
The obvious solution is to remove durations from all buffs, and turn them into raid-wide auras.