Blizzard leaning toward AE Tanking for all
by Daniel Whitcomb 
Sep 29th 2008 at 9:00AM
You may recall earlier yesterday that we reported on Thunder Clap losing its target limit, thus quite suddenly making Warriors have a very good chance of being viable AE tanks. One thing that you might have also noticed is that the Druid's Swipe is getting the same treatment (no word on whether it will also be getting the ability to go 360 degrees, but it seems likely, if it's going to be a Thunder Clap/Consecrate equivalent). In addition, Death and Decay, the Death Knight's AE mainstay, recently received a bump to threat gain. That means that all 4 tank classes, in theory, will have the ability to do some Protection Paladin style AE tanking should they want to. This all seems to be in line with the tanking philosophy Blizzard has been pushing for Wrath, one which Ghostcrawler recently reiterated: Blizzard wants to make sure that all tanks are as equal as possible. There should be no reason to take one class of tank over another, all things being equal, and no reason to sideline your tank because he or she is not the right class. Certainly, if this is to be realized completely, you do have to give every tank a good amount of AE capability, and this latest round of announced tank changes seems to be tailor made to do just that.
As the former player of a Druid tank and the future (current beta) player of a Death Knight tank, I'm very pleased to see these changes. I know that there was nothing more fun that running through a dungeon like Shattered Halls as a DPS with a Paladin Tank leading the way, and the idea that every tank class might be able to do that to some extent in Wrath makes me incredibly excited. It also allows groups to be more flexible in what DPS they take, including DPSers that traditionally have had a hard time getting groups due to having poor CC abilities, such as Cat Druids and Retribution Paladins.
If this change is handled right, it will go a long way toward solving the tank shortage for PuG groups, and, in fact, make the 5-man dungeon run fun again in general.
Filed under: Druid, Death Knight, Raiding, Expansions, Instances, News items, Analysis / Opinion, Warrior, Paladin, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
Sarem Sep 29th 2008 9:04AM
Exactly, well stated,
Lots of these LK changes have been geared toward not Needing a certain grp build to run something successfully.
Cow Sep 29th 2008 9:06AM
Coming soon: the great healer shortage of 2009.
arrogance Sep 29th 2008 9:34AM
i'm not sure if we'll have as much healer shortage as in tbc. that's why they condensed spell damage and spell healing into spellpower.. so that dps specced healers can still heal viably with a good tank.
Balius Sep 29th 2008 10:46AM
Warriors, Paladin, and Druids can all be tanks. Most go DPS, though. The same thing will probably happen with Deathknights, no doubt. Some may become tanks, of course, but I wouldn't predict any more of healer shortage than there is now unless the people who chose to heal in BC are disproportionately affected by the DPS and tanking siren song of the Deathknight.
Kya Sep 29th 2008 5:32PM
I'm still hoping that they decide to allow dual-specs. Apart from any problems it might cause it would allow folks the flexibility to DPS/Tank or heal, depending on the needs of the run. People who also might have never given a healer spec a shot might explore it without consequence, except of course acquiring proper healing gear.
Even though DPS often seems to be the spec of choice, I think there will be tanks-a-plenty come LK and that's a good thing.
Rugus Sep 29th 2008 9:07AM
Hmmm that sounds good for HUNTERS too: our beloved gorilla Thunderstomp (10 sec. cooldown) wont be nerfed ;)
andyjay220 Sep 29th 2008 9:09AM
I am happy to see this, but I think paladin tanks come up short on this now as they're main strength is shared by all while their weaknesses (low mitigation and stam compared to other tanks) have not been addressed to compensate.
I always wanted to be ret anyway, and now that ret is awesome maybe it's time to take on a new role. I will miss the feeling of "leading" the runs though...
superfrank Sep 29th 2008 11:03AM
paladin tanks stamina scales better than warrior tanks stamina.
Muiran Sep 29th 2008 12:29PM
True, however, paladins start off about 2k health in the hole at 80 from differences in base health. There are numbers out there on what gear level they would become equal and it's beyond T7. I think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of 3k stamina. I know stamina values are going up on gear, but 3k is still a lot.
Heilig Sep 29th 2008 4:34PM
It also happens to not be true anymore. Warriors and paladins have equal stam scaling now with the Combat Expertise nerf.
redgel Sep 29th 2008 9:12AM
i can vouch for multiple times where we search for a pally tank based on the fact there might be a few pulls that are easier with an "ae tank" (Shattered halls, magister's terrace)
on the other hand, warriors were known for the better single target tank, vs a paladin.
so with these changes sounds like any tank we get should be able to do a good job, single target or aoe.
Balasan Sep 29th 2008 9:16AM
I doubt swipe is going to turn 360. It's powerful enough as it is, considering it is currently the only multi-mob tanking spell that HAS NO COOLDOWN. As long as I have rage I'll probably just be spamming swipe, mangle and maul, and maybe a bash if needed.
As you can see I'm quite excited with this change.
Though, then again, considering the absolute stress of tanking (I MTed Karazhan one day, and I was also the only officer handling it. Don't ask me to do that again), I don't think we'll be having tank excess any time soon.
Manatank Sep 29th 2008 10:37AM
This article is incorrect as Ghostcrawler has already stated that the directional component of swipe is staying in place to offset the fact that it can be spamed:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=10532266545&sid=2000&pageNo=3#52
"They are pretty different abilities. Consecration ticks after being cast so you can effectively keep it up 100% of the time. While it is expensive, a paladin will most likely have mana at the start of a fight, while a druid will probably not have rage. Also, we did leave the positional part of Swipe in place so druids will have to pay attention to that. Thunder Clap has a cooldown and Death and Decay requires targeting. We don't want every ability to be identical in this case."
I'm a prot paladin, and I'd actually prefer the new swipe to consecrate. It will allow a druid with skill to really shine. One of the biggest problems with consecrate is that the cooldown is pretty long. When I throw it down, I have to be sure I don't want to move for 8 seconds. If new adds pop up and don't hit my consecrate I'm kind of screwed, and have to rely on other players to have the sense to bring the mobs to me (unless of course I can grab the mobs with my taunt which is also on a cooldown).
Throwing a swipe at the new adds gives druids some serious control. More than waiting for Thunder Clap or Consecrate. This isn't QQ by the way. I think it is awesome, and it does give AoE to all tanks with some definite flavor.
ivan256 Sep 29th 2008 2:06PM
No cooldown, but also no over-time effect...
Manatank Sep 29th 2008 3:08PM
An over time effect doesn't do anything for mobs that aren't in the radius of the consecrate. A spamable ability like swipe means that a druid will always be able to put some amount of agro on as many mobs as they can get in range of. This allows snap agro on adds that an ability like consecrate and thunder clap will not have.
Flavors of tanking. I like it.
Heilig Sep 29th 2008 4:42PM
While I generally agree with you, manatank, Warriors are still far, far better for snap aggro than bears, and especially paladins. The change to charge has changed the entire tanking gestalt for warriors. They now have a "go-get-em" ability that paladins don't have, and unlike the bear version, it actually GENERATES enough rage to follow it with another ability. Swipe works decently for snap aggro, but not nearly as well as a charge->shield slam combo. Paladins have a shield throw and an inadequate taunt. The change to charge is probably the biggest change to tanking that no one is talking about. Everyone seems focused on TC and Swipe, and I understand that, what with us tankadins soaking up the spotlight in TBC, but saying Bears have better snap aggro tools than warriors is just wrong. Warriors are very quickly shaping up to be THE go-to tanks in Wrath.
uncaringbear Sep 29th 2008 8:02PM
I agree with Heilig - the ability to use Charge in defensive stance, while in combat, is huge. I'm glad no one is talking about how great it is, otherwise it might get the nerf bat.
Manatank Sep 29th 2008 8:46PM
When I'm talking about snap agro, I'm talking about more than 3 mobs. With swipe, a druid could easily pick up the adds on the firehawk boss for example. Single target pick ups are reasonably easy for all the tanks, but I'd think that warriors probably are the best at it as you said.
Heilig Sep 29th 2008 10:43PM
Then just replace Shield Slam with Thunder Clap after the Charge and you still have higher snap aggro. Swipe requires rage. Damage shield does not. All it takes for a warrior now is enough aggro to get them interested in you (Thunder Clap FTW) and it's almost impossible to peel them off, just like Paladins now with Holy Shield, Ret Aura, and BoSanc. Once they're on you, they're not coming back off.
Sarem Sep 29th 2008 9:24AM
Anything that makes for more tanks is good, and I thought the overall changes to avoidance will make pallies better for tanking anything except spl dmg.
And it takes a certain kind of person to be good at leading raids, and just bc your a good tank doesnt mean u need to be a raid leader.
Lol my friend and I did a ZA last night, and we totoally ignored the raid leader and did the pulls how we knew them, 3 chests and full clear.