The Art of War(craft): Kalgan speaks on Blizzard's PvP philosophy

One poster's contention was that there was no access to PvP gear before engaging in Arenas was countered with Kalgan mentioning their efforts to include craftable PvP gear. This was an omission in The Burning Crusade that became apparent as the seasons progressed, with newer players or Level 70s struggling to break into the Arena format faced against opponents who had gathered gear through several Arena seasons. This was addressed philosophically with the introduction of Outlands reputation PvP gear, which were identical to the rare PvP sets obtainable through Honor. I say philosophically because by the time these item sets became available to players, it was too late. Starting Arenas at that point would find players matched up against other players wearing epic gear from the past seasons. In fact, wearing such dated gear only served to mark the player as easy targets.
Gear progression
I appreciate Blizzard's efforts in making craftable PvP gear, mostly available at Level 78 in preparation for Level 80 Battlegrounds and Arenas. I think it will help a lot of players get a start in Wrath of the Lich King endgame PvP, but at the same time, I believe they'll very quickly be discarded as players obtain PvP Honor and Arena gear. Kalgan likens the rare level Savage Gladiator items to Heroic dungeon rewards. The flaw in that analogy is that there is technically a chronological limit to accruing Arena points.
Even though Kalgan points out that the points required to purchase the items is low -- from 175 Arena points for wands and relics to 700 points for main or two-handed weapons -- you can only get Arena points once a week. No matter how many Arena matches you play, you will only ever get a weekly payout. The Arena PvP system naturally limits your progression. On the other hand, you can run any number of Heroics a day with RNG the only barrier to obtaining your desired item. The Battlegrounds Honor system would have been a closer, albeit still imperfect, comparison.
That said, I'm extremely excited about the tiered PvP gear system and applaud the fact that it's all readily available from the get go. It certainly goes a long way into distributing PvP gear among the playing population and closely addresses the balance of skill and time investment. This is best exemplified by the middle tier Hateful Gladiator gear, which is obtainable with a combination of Honor and Arena points and require a modest Arena rating. The top tier Deadly Gladiator requires high ratings -- mostly above 2k -- and are purchased exclusively with Arena points. The tiered gear system is one of the best things to happen to WoW PvP, allowing players to get gear at pretty much any level of Arena play.
Blizzard views high Arena ratings as the equivalent of 25-man raids, which is a simplistic but inevitable philosophy. There needs to be a progression within the PvP system beyond the seasons, giving players something to aspire for and pursue. Arenas are a good barometer for progression simply because it has a rating system. Kalgan explains that a similar rating system for the Battlegrounds that measure's an individual player's skill would be difficult to implement.
Arenas as being necessary
The question was why the Savage Gladiator set required any Arena points at all. Kalgan responded that there needed to be something for players who rate 1500 or below to play for. He then explains that "requiring" Arena play was no different from other aspects of the game which players are seemingly required to participate in for them to excel. He contends that some Arena enthusiasts might dislike the Battlegrounds -- a near unthinkable scenario in my experience -- but are required to play it for the boots, bracers, and belt pieces.
In a later response, Kalgan shoots down the contention that Arenas were created for the purpose of professional competition (eSports). He says that this is irrelevant from a business standpoint, something I tend to believe. eSports have always been shaky from a business perspective, and a good majority of the WoW community doesn't even pay attention to what's going on in professional scene. If anything, eSports are a marketing expense, and not even one that's targeted at the paying market -- some pro players have stopped playing the live realms altogether. With the vitriol often spewed in the comments section here at WoW Insider, it's apparent to me that some players don't even like Arenas. So I trust Kalgan when he says that Arenas as an eSport endeavor is a mere "cool side-effect" of the format.
Arenas are another aspect of the PvP gameplay in WoW, and I personally appreciate the fact that it's there. There are tons of PvE aspects to the game, from regular quests to 5-mans to raids. In fact, aside from the Battlegrounds, Arenas, and pitifully few World PvP objectives, everything about WoW revolves around PvE. As a PvP enthusiast, I greatly appreciate that Blizzard is expanding the PvP aspect of the game, particularly with Wrath of the Lich King's Lake Wintergrasp.
Kalgan reassuringly states that the voices of players who rail against the seeming over-emphasis on Arenas is "heard and understood". Making high-end gear available through the Battlegrounds is planned for the future, but owing to the complexity of implementing a measure of "skill" in the format, it's difficult to make appropriate gear that isn't just a reward of time invested.
A delicate balance
The truth is, more than PvE, gear parity for PvP is a moving target. Unlike bosses who stay static in difficulty -- sometimes even made easier over time -- opponents in PvP just keep getting better with gear and sometimes skill. This is simply the natural progression of PvP. The original poster's contention of players getting ahead of others is simply inevitable. If you're late coming into the PvP game, you really will have a ways to go in order to catch up.
This is where an "under the hood" rating system comes in. Blizzard recognizes that entering at the 1500 bracket and getting rolled by teams in gear a full two or three seasons ahead is no fun for anybody. This prompted Blizzard created a persistent rating system that is invisible to players but generally tracks a player's or team's performance and more or less ensures that match-ups will be made with players and teams of relatively similar skill. Hopefully it works because it will go a long way towards ensuring that players remain interested in competing in Arenas.
Playing with friends
One of the problems many players, even myself, will encounter in Arenas is that playing with your friends doesn't always deliver the best results in Arena play. Certain class combinations are sometimes optimal and not all your friends will have skill in or are even interested in PvP. This is just the way it works. My Arena teammates aren't necessarily my friends -- they're simply like-minded people whom I trust to PvP better than my friends. In fact, some of the best PvP teammates aren't friends at all. Pro Arena player Neilyo reportedly detests his teammate Serennia (as do many other people, supposedly), but they play together simply because Serennia is really good at PvP. It's nothing personal.
Of course, you can luck out and have one to four of your good friends be excellent PvP players, but then comes the organizational difficulty of getting a decent schedule together. It's really not too different from getting 10 or 25 people together to raid. Sometimes, not all of those people are your friends. They're just people you raid with. Of course, there are family and friends guilds, but those don't necessarily translate to endgame progression.
Nothing in a vacuum
In order to progress in the game, players need to participate in its different aspects. Limiting oneself to 5-mans will yield no better than 5-man gear, for example. Even raiding exclusively, as Kalgan points out, will eventually run a player's resources dry. When one plays World of Warcraft, the best experience comes from taking all the different aspects of the game -- from quests to reputation grinds to instances. The same goes for PvP. One needs to play Battlegrounds, Arenas, and even world PvP.
I know that right now, particularly with the Savage Gladiator gear, it feels as though Blizzard is forcing Arenas upon the players. The fact is, nobody has to play Arenas if they don't want to. The Savage Gladiator gear isn't even particularly compelling -- for me, anyway -- and you will do just as well with several PvE epics and carefully chosen Resilience gems and Enchantments. Arenas are, like it or not, a solid barometer for PvP play. Yes, it has a bias against some classes and specs because of the close quarters and small team format, but hopefully the changes in Wrath of the Lich King and at Level 80 will smoothen that out a bit more.
In order to be competitive in WoW PvP, one has to participate in all aspects of WoW -- even, oddly enough, some PvE. Take the Lake Wintergrasp boss Archavon, for example, who drops tokens for PvP gear. The top Arena players in the world commit to professions that give them the greatest advantage in Arena play, such as Enchanting and Jewelcrafting. It's impossible to play the game in a vacuum, at least not if you want to progress.
Wrath PvP
PvP in the coming expansion is going to be a good experience. I say this with a mix of confidence, knowledge gleaned from experience, and mostly a lot of faith simply because I've been playing this game for almost four years and I've seen it grow and get better. Blizzard is not taking class balance for granted, despite how it might feel in Wrath Beta right now. The tiered PvP gear is an excellent idea and hopefully only the tip of the iceberg. PvP gear already comes from several different sources now, and it isn't too hopeful to imagine there'd be a few more.
Play the Arenas, if even casually. My very good friends' Arena team have taken to the habit of playing their last, or tenth game of every week naked wearing only sombreros in a gesture of fun. It boggles my mind as I could never contemplate such a thing, but he says they know they're not cut out for Arena play. But they enjoy it anyway. These are the kind of players who know how to have fun and get the most out of the game. In Wrath of the Lich King, they'll even get gear. That's not a bad deal at all.
Zach Yonzon writes the PvP column The Art of War(craft), where he mulls over the underwhelming new designs for Arena and PvP gear. He looks forward to the new PvP environment as well as encountering new challenges. He's still grumpy over the fact that Warhammer Online is only for PCs.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, PvP, The Art of War(craft) (PvP)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Danath Oct 5th 2008 3:02PM
So why for progression in raiding can you do 25 man OR 10 man, yet for pvp progression we HAVE to do the tedious, boring, annoying, arena? BG allows you do pvp as any spec and you can be relatively effective, arena limits that a great deal, suddenly no matter how skilled you are, your the wrong class/spec combination? your screwed.
PvE heroics, badges, alts, theres actually LOTS of ways to spend your time pveing, and thanks to 10 mans theres an easier system in place for moving on as long as you dont mind weaker loot. Would be simple if they did the same thing for BG's, an honor only set thats slightly weaker than the arena set, but still a FULLY obtainable set, there, problem solved, BG gets its progression.
jaybarti Oct 5th 2008 2:26PM
Perhaps some sort of BG badge system might be implemented. Specifically for PVP gear. Or a token system based on win/honor turn in. Since we accumulate honor at a much higher rate. Something else to spend it on might be the way to go.
tomhennessy Oct 5th 2008 2:33PM
Let's drawn an analogy.
You have a new 70 Druid. You spec it 30Moonkin/21 Feral, leaving some talent points unspent, because, gosh darn it, that's how you like to spec.
Ok, fine. In PvE, you're going to do OK in 5-mans. No heroics for you. You'll also be a great crafter. So, you'll have blues, and some crafted epics.
What if you wanted to PvP? you'd do OK in BGs, but no arena team would take you. You'd get blues, some epics.
Now say you wanted good gear.
PvE - Pick a dominant spec, find 9-24 other good people, raid, get epics.
PvP - pick a dominant spec, find 1-4 other good people, Arena, get epics.
Achieving things in this game requires determination, the right spec, time, and other good people.
Wookiecookie Oct 5th 2008 3:58PM
@tomhennessy
You're missing Danath's point. He's asking for battlegrounds to become an alternative progression in PvP. It's hard to break into arenas at the moment and have FUN doing it due to the number of teams that go back to 1500 to farm points. It doesn't matter what spec you are. On the other hand, it's possible to enjoy yourself in battlegrounds without having to dedicate your time to it.
Some people are interested in the payoff of hardwork and that seems to be what interests you. For others, it's about having fun along the way.
So basically Danath is asking for a way to enjoy progressing again because right now progression in PvP lies in Arena, which is liked getting kicked in the balls... repeatedly. If you enjoy that, good for you. The rest of us aren't masochists.
Ærynn Lómëhtar Oct 6th 2008 1:19AM
@ tomhennessy
You're missing the point. While there is tiered arena gear, there is no tiered arena experience. In raiding, one needs ONLY raid T4 content, regardless of skill, until they are geared enough to go to T5. Later, with T4 gear, they need to be skillful enough to win T5 gear, and so on. But imagine dropping a T4-geared level 70, no matter how skillful, in Black Temple? They not only cannot compete at all with T5-T6 geared raiders (can't DPS well, can't heal well, and can't survive well), they are also a liability.
And yet, it is assumed, that a person who has just equipped his Outland Battlegear and won some PvP pieces from Allerian stronghold "just doesn't have enough skill" when facing those with S3-S4 (which is equivalent to T6+) gear? The best they can do is do BGs for, what, a few weeks, just so they can participate in arena, probably get a few S3 armor, no hope for S3 weaponry and, by the time they qualify for S4 gear, the season is over. Is this fair?
The implications are obvious: those who get to the top first stay there and keep those trying to get there out of it as long as they can (remember that the points you earn each week is dependent on your win-loss ratio and your weekly rating) until the season ends. It's no longer a question of skill but of keeping the masses subdued—and this is what Blizzard should realise.
Caustik Oct 5th 2008 2:16PM
Problem I see is that pvp items you get from honor are >= to blue pve80.
This is worrying me a bit about the way you'll be able or not to instance @ 80.
Well, we'll see.
joggoms Oct 5th 2008 10:33PM
That would cause these mounts to be too common, but I'm sure it will also be a good money maker early on in Wrath.
We might some day see a fancier version that is engineering only too, so no need to cry yet.
StalinsGameCompany Oct 6th 2008 8:05AM
Blizzard is borking PvE by balancing DPS on PvP burst. That's how they screwed up TBC. Since many classes can't keep that burst up for 6 mins they fail in PvE.
And arena really isn't that popular, to fix that THEY WILL MAKE YOU DO IT. See now arena is popular. Get in the arena or it's the reeducation camps for you!
F BLIZZARD!
matt Oct 5th 2008 2:18PM
The Hateful reqs are hardly modest.
Say you're an "average" arena player. That means your rating hangs out around 1500. If you practice a bit, and get a good comp, and get good gear, maybe you can go on a decent streak and hit 1575, or 1600.
Right now, 1550, 1575, and 1600 will buy you something with a req. You have a reason to keep playing and trying to get just a little bit better. If you keep improving, you get those, then you go for 1700, and so on.
Let's look at Hateful:
Chest - 1725 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Hands - 1665 AR - 3600 HP and 400 AP
Head - 1785 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Legs - 1695 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
Shoulder - 1825 AR - 4800 and 550 AP
MH Weapons - 1755 AR - 8400 HP and 950 AP
OH Weapons & Items - 1755 AR - 3600 HP and 400 AP
Shields - 1755 AR - 6000 HP and 700 AP
2H Weapons - 1755 AR - 12000 HP and 1400 AP
Caster 1H Weapons - 1755 AR - 10000 HP and 1150 AP
Ranged Weapon - 1755 AR - 1200 HP and 1400 AP
Throwing Weapon - 1755 AR - 3200 HP and 350 AP
Wands - 1755 AR - 3200 HP and 350 AP
The very, very lowest is 1665. If you're that average arena player, and you've already purchased your non-req gear (doesn't take long), why continue playing? You will likely never hit 1665.
Then all the average players drop out of the system, the bottom drops out, and no one gets the high-end gear. It's happening right now with S4.
niko Oct 5th 2008 5:40PM
persistent rating takes some of the guaranteed losses, and with that, the lost rating, and removes it from the table.
I fully expect the average rating to improve overall. If you were a 1500 player in S4, you'll be touching that 1700 rating in LK.
My only caveat here is that perhaps the scoring system will be adjusted as well for each win/loss. Ya never know.
/devil's advocate
Jane Gray Oct 6th 2008 1:18AM
Yeah this has been my problem. I got into the arena game too late (75% through arena 3) and no matter how hard we try my partner and I can barely tread water between 1450 and 1505, very frustrating.
Brian VP Oct 6th 2008 8:06AM
Great point... while waiting for a raid the other day, I happened to look at another players pvp stats... this guy had a 1505 3's raiding with 200 GAMES PLAYED. There is no way he is getting that rating high enough to get the S4 gear. Yet an idiot in blues can come to a t5 raid and get any drop nobody else wants...
tomhennessy Oct 5th 2008 2:33PM
I love the people who complain about Arenas being hard. Arenas are hard if you:
A. Don't know anyone else.
B. Are Bad.
C. Haven't practiced
(My 1500 rating shows that I fit at least the last two.)
That's why there are battlegrounds - no skill is required, so the masses get Phat Lewtz. Enjoy!
T Oct 5th 2008 2:53PM
Don't forget:
D. The other team has the gear to mow you down.
You give me the matching gear of a 2000+ arena team, and I guarantee you, that while I may not when every time, I damn well will be able to compete.
Instead, we have a system that favors those with better gear. Period. That is how it is now, and that is how it appears it will be in WotLK. This whole argument that it takes purely "skill" is bullshit, and it is usually advanced by those who already have great gear and believe their own hype.
Skill and practice are important. They are not the exclusive requirements to succeed in Arenas that higher-end players make them out to be. Gear is important, and it amazes me that Blizzard refuses to directly address this problem and instead puts band-aids on it.
Give everybody the same gear when they walk in an arena. Then you're going to see who has been practicing, who has skill, and who just thinks they do. You get to wear the gear that you're playing for while you're in the arena. Some teams, when they exit the arena, will be good enough to purchase those same pieces and then wear those for bg's, world pvp, or to stand around in. Many other teams won't be that good, or they will have to play for a longer time to get the gear. They'll return their greens and blues out in the "real" world.
lshizzle Oct 5th 2008 3:07PM
Well, if you have never experienced arena past 1500, how can you possibly comment on the skill level of PVP at the ratings you would need to achieve Hateful or better gear? Arenas are hard, particularly if you aren't an 'OP' class and these rating reqs seem overly restrictive. We get that gear is the reward for time spent in the game etc, but a level of parity in gear between experienced and new PVPers is necessary
Amaxe Oct 5th 2008 3:17PM
"A. Don't know anyone else.
B. Are Bad.
C. Haven't practiced"
You forgot D: Have gear not suited for PvP. A just starting out Arena team may be skilled but if they are not geared, they will clearly get a sub 1500 rating
tomhennessy Oct 5th 2008 3:23PM
If they have the gear to mow you down...that means that you haven't practiced enough. If you were good, and you'd practiced, you'd have good gear. That's how Arena works. Those guys who steamroll you? Yeah, 80% of the time they'd roll you in S1 gear.
Tanglebones Oct 5th 2008 4:53PM
"That's why there are battlegrounds - no skill is required, so the masses get Phat Lewtz. Enjoy!"
...apparently you missed this month's big news: PvP gear in Wrath requires BOTH Arena and Honour points. Maybe at least give a nod to facts before you go trolling hmm?
Asgaroth Oct 5th 2008 5:03PM
How can you say that no skill is required in battlegrounds? How did you learn to PvP in WoW? Don't tell me with arenas, considering that arenas are for the capped level. Don't be so posh, you had to learn the nature of pvp from somewhere.
pantear Oct 5th 2008 6:52PM
"If they have the gear to mow you down...that means that you haven't practiced enough. If you were good, and you'd practiced, you'd have good gear. That's how Arena works. Those guys who steamroll you? Yeah, 80% of the time they'd roll you in S1 gear."
I'm sorry, but there's something called Arena points, that you win on a weekly basis, which limits how much gear you can buy.
And last time I tried to play arena competitively, I was streamrolled 8 out of 10 times. After those streamrolls, I armoried each and every team member I faced and only twice in almost a month did I find a team that was near our gear level.