Skill Mastery: Bloodsurge
by Matthew Rossi 
Oct 7th 2008 at 6:00PM
It's quite possibly my favorite Fury ability (yes, even more so than Titan's Grip, which I am currently back in love with - I know you were all pulling for us crazy kids to make it) just for the fun of hearing the swoosh-bang on a BT crit. That sound means hit the slam button for extra damage! It's like getting all cherries on the slot machine, but without having to sit with all those people feeding quarters into the boxes with that desperate, hardened stare. Those folks scare me. I get the sense they'd like an instant cast slam as well, so as to easily steal my quarters.
Bloodsurge has a few minor quibbles: the short duration of the buff after the bloodthirst crit means you have to pay attention and hit slam as soon as possible, and with the GCD and rage issues being what they are, it is possible to miss out on a slam for one reason or another. I generally don't find rage to be that big a problem with fury at this point (my fury warrior on Beta is but level 73, though). Also, while fury has Rampage to help with crit synergy, Bloodsurge is still an ability at the mercy of the RNG: if you don't crit on that Bloodthirst then you won't be using Slam for another six seconds. This is also not that horrible a setback, to be honest, but it is there.
Also, man, it's annoying when you kill a mob with a crit bloodthirst and there's nothing around to slam.
Bloodsurge rewards attentive play. If you're sitting back and pushing your rotation while eating a sandwich, Bloodsurge isn't going to help you digest, because the swoosh-bang going off will make you scramble to hit the keybinding for slam. It seems to be an ability designed to make fury more interactive and so far, I'm really enjoying it. I'd probably extend the cooldown by one second: I don't want to remove the hit slam now feeling of the ability, but I do want to make the GCD less likely to lock out a slam on me.
With Bloodsurge in fury, it made sense to move Improved Slam to arms. You're not going to miss this talent if you're fury, and if you have it, a .5 second slam doesn't matter: you're going to do instant slams and those points are going elsewhere anyway. IS was part of the arms rotation as it stood, so this move helps both specs.
Filed under: Warrior, Analysis / Opinion, Talents, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Arkhill Oct 7th 2008 6:10PM
Has something changed about TG? 15% hit still seems like a lot to overcome
Matthew Rossi Oct 7th 2008 6:53PM
15% isn't nothing, but all it really does is give your specials the same miss rate as you would normally have dual wielding for white hits. (Ordinarily specials don't use that heavy miss rate, which is how fury warriors have gotten away with such a low hit rating in the past. 96 hit rating isn't a big hurdle compared to how rogues have to gear.) - you can see what I mean at http://www.wowwiki.com/Hit
With specials using a 2 roll table (as I mentioned in last week's warrior column) I find myself on my draenei warrior at level 73 barely ever missing with about 200 hit rating, and keep in mind that hit rating is worth less as you level. My DPS is definitely increased with TG. It's not a monstrous upgrade, but it's there.
I'm still worried about the lack of hit on gear as I level, though.
Heilig Oct 7th 2008 6:57PM
For the last time, it's not 15% hit. It's 15% hit to SPECIALS. Any fury warrior worth a damn is going to be stacking hit anyway, the only difference being that before, specials only missed 9% of the time, so many fury warriors would get to that first artificial hit "cap" and then push for crit, haste, or strength since it would benefit them a bit more.
Now, you just have more incentive to load up on hit rating since it will dramatically increase the damage not only of your white hits, but also your specials. It's kind of like Expertise, in a way. When expertise was introduced, it was quickly seen that it had roughly twice the benefit of hit since it applied both to parries and blocks where hit only reduced misses. Point for point, Expertise was better than hit. Now Hit is back on the top rung. It actually makes your itemization easier.
And be honest, now. Being able to use two 2hers without ANY penalty at all is just stupid OP. Extra stats, sick damage, and NO downside? Give me a break. The misses on special attacks are the only thing that makes this talent even viable. if you're able to gear like you do now for excessive crit, haste, and expertise with a minimal hit rating and still not miss your specials, you would absolutely destroy any other class.
Remember, 2hers have roughly 50% more DPS than equivalent 1hers and TWICE the stats. With TG you still get the extra stats, and a 15% reduction to 50% of your damage that is already 150% of what it used to be brings you up to roughly 140% of the damage you're doing now, and that doesn't even count the DPS increase from the stats. The only problem TG ever had was spotty rage generation because of the slow speeds, and that has mostly been fixed now.
Heilig Oct 7th 2008 6:58PM
I like your style, Rossi. We always seem to troll the same posts ;)
Caed Oct 7th 2008 11:52PM
@Heilig:
You are off on a few points here. I can only assume that your main is not a raiding fury warrior, or a PVP warrior, in which case perhaps you should not be making such extensive commentary on TG.
First- "Any fury warrior worth a damn is going to be stacking hit anyway". At present, this is simply not true. No fury warrior stacks hit. Fury is only a viable spec (and barely) after reaching a certain standard of gear- around T5. By the time you have this gear, you will not need to stack hit, as the itemization of your gear will mean you have reached the soft hit cap without gems. Once the soft hit cap is reached, STR, ArP, AP, even haste will benefit your DPS more than further hit. In WotLK, fury warrs with TG will be forced to stack more hit than they would if they had not taken TG, wasting gem slots. This is the reason why TG does not, in fact, provide a significant increase in DPS, leading me on to my next point.
"Being able to use two 2hers without ANY penalty at all is just stupid OP." Again, you are incorrect, and your rough calculations do more to harm your argument than back it up. I don't really want to fill up this thread with theorycrafting, so I would suggest that you and anyone who is interested take a look at the warrior forums, which have several threads analysing TG in depth, and warrior threads on the Elitist Jerks forums. In short, at present TG only provides a minor increase in DPS over a standard DW fury build. So the idea that DPS warriors would be overpowered if TG did not lower special hit is incorrect in relation to pure DPS, i.e. raiding. The 51-pt talent of any class should be more than a minor DPS increase, I am sure you will agree. And frankly, fury warriors really need a significant DPS increase. Tell me the last time you wanted to take a fury warrior to a raid, or even a heroic. They bring nothing other than their DPS, which at present is inferior to most other classes. A warlock, mage, rogue, shaman, or hunter will always out DPS a fury warrior of similar skill and gear, as well as providing extra utility.
Finally, you mention that "if you're able to gear like you do now ... and not miss your specials, you would absolutely destroy any other class." This is laughable. Please, show me the fury warriors above the 2K mark in arena. We are certainly capable of destroying other classes- if they are kind enough to stand still and face away from us, and refrain from being healed. While some talents in the WotLK fury tree are aimed at increasing our PVP viability (and we are thankful for this), we still have a long way to go in relation to other classes and specs. A small amount of extra damage might have helped to compensate for our total lack of mobility, CC, utility, or in fact ability to do anything other than hit stationary targets.
In summary, there is a reason why every serious warrior in the beta is Prot spec- for tanking, PVP, or DPS. Fury needs help.
superfrank Oct 8th 2008 7:21AM
heilig a little quibble:
t6.5 level 1h = 103 dps, t6.5 level 2h = 135dps so thats only about 30% more dps.
given that, I don't see how caed can claim that TG barely provides a boost cos you're losing at most 15% white dps from the hit penalty, and as to the yellow attacks slam and whirlwind are going to be much bigger with TG than with 2x1H
Arkhill Oct 8th 2008 11:56AM
@superfrank
The problem seems to be that much of the damage of 2h used by warriors is from special attacks, which added to the hit penalty of dual wielding, will be missing a lot. If I am wrong, someone please correct me, my fury warrior can't wait to use TG.
Jetstream Oct 7th 2008 6:12PM
Not to change the subject, but why are you "back in love" with TG? Did something change? Or did you really mean you had never stopped loving it? Cuz that article was from 2 months ago ;)
Eschaton Oct 7th 2008 6:35PM
Does the instant Slam reset the swing timer?
MacGayver Oct 7th 2008 6:54PM
Nope, does not reset swing timer. That's what makes it good :)
BobTurkey Oct 15th 2008 3:26AM
"people feeding quarters into the boxes with that desperate, hardened stare. Those folks scare me. I get the sense they'd like an instant cast slam as well, so as to easily steal my quarters."
I don't know what drugs you're on Rossi but send me some (and keep up the great posts).
MacGayver Oct 7th 2008 6:46PM
Some talents make you more effective and powerful, while others are remain lackluster. That's fine and all.
However, I expect an expansion to give me radical new character experiences. Both in game play and visually. A few talents and abilities that increase numbers/stats won't be enough to justify a new expansion.
The point I'm trying to make is that, while a talent/ability can increase the effectiveness, even the most crappy talent/ability can be far more fun (Heroic Leap for example).
deviationer Oct 7th 2008 6:52PM
I have been having a lot of fun with my crazy spec in the beta.
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=LhrhbfIx00bMZhE00xVzZbI
But I guess I'm going to have to spec prot and see what all the crazy fun is with that. Although I don't know how good prot will be for leveling with all dps gear and the tanking sword and shield from shattered sun rep.
Djinn Oct 7th 2008 7:29PM
Completely off topic, but Matthew, I have been hoping to learn what the state of the arms tree might be and want your opinion on it. i am leveling up a warrior going arms and love it and would like to stay with the playstyle after the expansion. is it viable?
Matthew Rossi Oct 7th 2008 7:35PM
At present, both arms and fury (in my opinion) are a bit low on damage. But that can be fixed pretty easily, and the talents in arms themselves are pretty solid. I'm not 100% sold on basing so much of the tree on Sudden Death and Overpower procs from bleeds, but in general I'd say arms has a plan and they're looking to implement it. Making Berserker Rage usable in all stances, in my opinion, was aimed at arms in PvP.
Djinn Oct 7th 2008 9:48PM
Thanks for taking time out to address this for me. I keep hoping to hear you on the Wowinsider show so that you can can talk about Warriors and Shamans, both of which are classes I am leveling up at the moment and either of them could easily become my new main. But I am liking arms more than I did fury. I finally got a swing timer and worked MS into the rotation between swings and my DPS went up significantly and arms I am having a blast with. I tend to like the 2h weapon thing cuz my main is a ret pally...
Bethany Oct 7th 2008 7:38PM
Heilig, while you're on the subject of correcting people.. Expertise affects Dodge and Parry. Not block.
skreed Oct 7th 2008 7:47PM
Is Slam hitting with both weapons in a TG build?
Matthew Rossi Oct 7th 2008 7:58PM
Oh my word, no. Can you imagine that? I'd be in crazy DPS heaven. It appears to hit with your MH only, which is still pretty sweet.
Mayhew Oct 7th 2008 8:24PM
When I last checked (couple weeks ago, before they broke TG), Slam was only hitting with the main hand weapon. Whirlwind, though... Whirlwind hits like a truck.