Encrypted Text: Trunks of the Trees, Assassination and Combat
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we explore two of the new 51 point talents coming soon.If you ask 75% of the top Rogues worldwide what the premier PvP spec is, they'll tell you Subtlety. If you ask an even greater margin of raiders what Rogue spec pumps out the most DPS, you'll get a solid shout of "Combat, duh!" And if you should ever feel the urge to pick up a pair of daggers, every brother of the shadows will direct you towards Assassination. These three trees have been neatly defined by Blizzard, and it's fairly obvious what each is designed for.
What separates Rogues from every other class is our nearly unilateral use of 41 point talents. A dagger Rogue without Mutilate is gimped while a Sub PvP Rogue without Shadowstep is the laughing stock of the arena. And don't bother stepping into Sunwell without Surprise Attacks, unless getting trashed on the damage meters is your idea of fun. We've gotten so used to the comfort in knowing that dumping 41 points into any of our trees will yield a viable build. Now that 51 pointers are on the way in 3.0.2 and Wrath to follow, I've been asked by many Rogues "Will the bottom of our trees continue to be the anchors of our builds?" Find out after the cut.
With talents like Guardian Spirit and Deep Freeze being no-brainers for classes that invested in the tree, many Rogues are conflicted on our tier 11 talents. Instead of acting as an anchor for the entire build, they seem more positioned to add some fluff to the bottom of each existing tree. While constructing our new builds off of the really well balanced existing builds is easy for Blizzard, it can leave a sour taste in many mouths that were hoping for a completely new playstyle like Mutilate and Shadowstep provided for Rogues in TBC. These moves still provide a lot of value, however; so let's examine the first two and find out exactly if they're worth the investment of an additional 10 points.
Assassination Tree:
Let's start with Assassination. With Mutilate's positioning requirement removed and the addition of even more Poison synergy to the tree, Mutilate has really become the only viable option for a dagger-wielding Rogue. Hemo Daggers (obligatory "lol") and Combat Daggers are relics of the past: if you want to do it from behind (or now in the front!) with daggers, you're spec'ing Mutilate. It's a great ability that really defines the playstyle for a dagger Rogue.
Hunger for Blood is the newest addition to the Assassination tree. The best correlation to an existing spell or talent I can think of would be Tiger's Fury for Feral Druids, though Hunger for Blood (also HfB) is really much more powerful than that. The core idea is a damage increase to the tune of 9% with 3 stacks, with a bleed removal built in.
The energy cost is not nearly as steep as many Rogues will tell you it is. Any 51 point Assassination player will have also picked up Overkill, which reduces to cost of all abilities used while stealthed and immediately after by 10 energy; and HfB can be used without breaking stealth. So, for a mere 60 energy (6 seconds time) you can boost your opening damage by 9% for 30 seconds – making this spell blow similar talents like Master of Subtlety out of the water.
For just 30 energy every 30 seconds (or 3 seconds time) you can refresh the effect, preserving your 9% damage increase on ALL attacks. 90 energy for 60 seconds of 9% more damage sounds more than fair to me, especially when 60 of it can be spent while stealthed and before the fight even starts. It would cost 75 energy and 15 combo points to keep Slice and Dice up that long, which only increases your white damage, and would not be active at the start of a fight.
The HfB goodness doesn't stop their either. It also removes one Bleed effect per cast, and if it does remove a Bleed, it costs 15 less energy. This will give Mutilate Rogues a huge boost in mobility, as they can ensure that Deep Wounds or Rupture won't break their single Vanish (no Prep with HfB). Improved Gouge into HfB to remove any Bleeds; now Rogues can consistently restealth against enemy Rogues and Warriors. This will prove key to the viability of Mutilate in the arena at 80, and it will make HfB that much easier to keep up.
The only caveat to HfB is that it can be dispelled via Tranquilizing Shot and Anesthetic Poison, however Anesthetic Poison won't be used by many Rogues in the arena and will force them to choose another poison NOT to apply to you, and Tranq Shot will likely be saved to dispel a key Magic Buff off of a teammate instead of you. It will also only take off one charge from the stack, so Hunters will never be able to completely purge HfB from you unless you choose not to refresh it. And a word on keeping HfB up, some Rogues feel it adds even more micromanagement to an already bloated class. However, I feel that 1 button every 30 seconds is something we can handle: I have faith in you!
Combat:
Moving on to our raiding friends (and yes, I predict Combat will still be the raiding build of choice for maximum damage), let's talk about Killing Spree. While it has already had many endearing terms attached to it (BANKAI, Limit Break, etc), it really seems to be an attempt by Blizzard to give Combat Rogues some predictable on-demand burst damage. Combat Rogues are often known as the turtle in the famous tale of the Tortoise and the Hare: slow and steady wins the race. With their only true burst coming in the form of a 5 minute cooldown Adrenaline Rush, this really gives them the edge they need to compete decently in PvP.
My test with Killing Spree at level 80 show it doing between 6k and 8k damage to a level 80 mob, while wearing blue PvP gear. Translate this to a lower amount against a player, and you still have a sizeable burst that can demolish a target in 2.5 seconds. A Fan Of Knives interrupt into Killing Spree could be the deathblow that Combat has lacked in patches past.
However, I did notice one potential use of Killing Spree that could make it a must have for Combat even if you're not planning to arena. What's the secret? Blade Flurry.
Fan of Knives + Blade Flurry + Killing Spree. And yes, all Killing Spree hits will be under the effect of Blade Flurry. I literally dumped 20,000 damage into two mobs in just a couple seconds. And you can do this every 2 minutes! I suggest using Killing Spree while low on energy, as you will regain a ton of energy in the 2.5 seconds of inactivity when adding the 5 possible Combat Potency procs. Combat Rogues are positioned to continue their place as the ultimate PvE class in both solo and group settings. Add in the additional defensive capabilities the tree has received, and it may just be strong enough to see some combat Rogues in the SK100.
Summary:
That about sums up two of the new 51 point talents for the Rogue class. As always, your spec is your own, and how you choose to use your talent points should reflect the playstyle you prefer. In a PvE setting, I would say every Rogue should pick up HfB if they are already Mutilate or looking to switch to daggers. In PvP, Preparation becomes very attractive instead, making it a very close call between the two. And any Combat Rogue that wants to PvP should pick up Killing Spree, and it will remain to be theorycrafted if there are better talents elsewhere for maximum PvE DPS. As for Shadow Dance? You'll have to wait until next week!
Filed under: Rogue, Raiding, Talents, (Rogue) Encrypted Text, Wrath of the Lich King






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
dotorion Oct 8th 2008 1:41PM
*drools at the thought of the killing spree combo*
Saiforune Oct 8th 2008 4:21PM
What I would like to see is what is the PvE and PvP cookie cutter(s) for Rogues if possible with the current trees, barring any changes.
One of my alts is a 70 PvP rogue and I'd like to see what I could do with him in WoTLK PvE or PvP.
besaba Oct 15th 2008 10:25PM
Sorry, but anyone who clicks all their abilities should not be giving advice to the rest of the rogue community. Just throwing that out there.
madsushi Oct 15th 2008 10:36PM
I actually had just respec'd in the beta for Killing Spree and I didn't have my UI set up, I only clicked to get the video for you guys. :)
Jack Spicer Oct 8th 2008 1:48PM
This is a rogue column, so excuses are definitely in order, but I don't think that either Guardian Spirit nor Deep Freeze are no brainers.
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 1:54PM
True, they are not so good that you couldn't pass them up if you're only 30-40 points into a tree, you're right. However, I would say that if you're 50 points deep into Frost or Holy, you're picking up Guardian Spirit or Deep Freeze.
I know many rogues who are not picking up HfB or Shadow Dance, simply because they don't fit with the situation they're playing in. I'm actually looking at an x/x/50 spec if I play Shadowstep at 80. Prep is so good for a Mutilate Rogue, and as you'll read next week, Shadow Dance is so bad.
Bootsanator Oct 8th 2008 2:06PM
Yep.
At lvl 80, I'll pick up Guardian Spirit with no questions asked, because I'll be deep enough in the holy tree soaking up all that new talent goodness.
For the next month or so, encompassing post-patch and pre-wrath, I simply Can't take guardian spirit because Meditation is required. Yep, required. Hands down, no arguments necessary or even viable.
but yeah. I'll like that amazing oh-shit button for when we get to 80 :)
Tridus Oct 8th 2008 2:30PM
Deep freeze as a no-brainer? He must not know any Frost Mages. The talent is totally useless in endgame PvE.
I guess that qualifies as "no-brainer", if by that you mean "no raiding Mage will ever take it".
Guardian Spirit also isn't a no brainer, though I think most Holy Priests will get it at 80. Almost nobody will have it at 70 becuase we're forced to spend 13 Disc for Meditation to be even remotely functional, and that puts GS out of reach.
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 2:34PM
While PvE frost mages won't take it, most PvE mages are currently fire spec'd anyway...
The talent is designed for PvP, the same way a raider wouldn't pick up improved Kidney Shot.
Valhalla Oct 8th 2008 1:56PM
Mutilate/Preparation seems like a more attractive option than Hunger for Blood, at the moment. Yes, you do a bit more damage working to keep HFB up, but Mutilate already excels in damage output. Its real problem is its lack of mobility, which speccing Preparation will solve.
You claim that Hunger will increase mobility to make Vanish more usable, but you can still break roots and kiting with a bleed on you. Preparation is obviously a much better choice for mobility in HFB's current state.
Plus, double Cold Blood? Random win!
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 2:25PM
Well, not having vanish break plus:
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=43380
Means 30% more speed while under the Vanish effect... so getting those bleeds off you make your Vanish go further. :)
Fold Oct 8th 2008 2:42PM
I have to agree with Valhalla. HfB really doesn't offer any "mobility" benefits to Mutilate. Removing bleeds might be helpful for vanish/open combos but increasing mobility? It doesn't remove hamstring or any other snares, basically making it a cheap damage buff when fighting rogues or warriors, and a pretty expensive one when you're not bleeding. Find Weakness is the same amount of damage buff at max rank, and all you have to do is perform a finisher to gain the effect.
Overkill is almost not worth mentioning, how much time do you spend stealthed in an arena? A very small percentage compared to open combat.
Prep is far more useful, absolutely one of the best talents for PVP and especially so for Mutilate spec since it lags behind ShS for mobility.
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 2:55PM
"I have to agree with Valhalla. HfB really doesn't offer any "mobility" benefits to Mutilate. Removing bleeds might be helpful for vanish/open combos but increasing mobility? It doesn't remove hamstring or any other snares, basically making it a cheap damage buff when fighting rogues or warriors, and a pretty expensive one when you're not bleeding. Find Weakness is the same amount of damage buff at max rank, and all you have to do is perform a finisher to gain the effect."
Actually, Find Weakness was made passive and nerfed to 6% all abilities. The ability to remove DoTs and use Glyph'd Vanish does improve mobility, adding a weak Sprint to your lineup can help. As I mentioned in the article, Prep is a very great talent for Mutilate and it will probably cause some rogues to go one way and some to go the other. Also, 30 energy every 30 seconds is not very expensive, imo.
"Overkill is almost not worth mentioning, how much time do you spend stealthed in an arena? A very small percentage compared to open combat."
True, but again, in a double DPS fight, you only need 6 seconds before opening on your target, and you spend only 30 points of "real" energy to keep it up for 60 seconds. 60 seconds is a long time in a double DPS fight, and I think 30 energy cost over a full minute is not too shabby.
"Prep is far more useful, absolutely one of the best talents for PVP and especially so for Mutilate spec since it lags behind ShS for mobility."
With the ShS nerf (no use while rooted), and improved Sprint being viable for a Mut/Combat build, Mutilate's mobility is definitely moving forwards (though not at ShS's level yet).
Valhalla Oct 8th 2008 5:16PM
The Vanish glyph doesn't really offer any mobility, it just says you don't kite yourself when you break a snare off yourself. It basically saves us a cooldown so we don't have to Vanish+Sprint to catch someone or Vanish+Shadowstep. (if you're specced)
I didn't know that the Vanish glyph was a Minor though. Definently has to be one of the best Minor Glyphs available.
Helioz Oct 8th 2008 2:01PM
This is probably going to make me seem like an absurd computer nerd but the 51 point talents are much more "leaves" than "trunks."
Graphically yes they are trunks but in the tree sense of the word the 51 point talents they are the furthest reaches from the "roots"
+10 to Geek
vlad Oct 8th 2008 3:00PM
hmm, but unless your upside down your really building your tree from the top down. the trunk is the single slot at the bottom of that tree. im with chase on this one :)
terra Oct 8th 2008 6:16PM
@vlad: That's exactly it, in computer science terms, the 'trees' ARE upside down.
kpt Oct 8th 2008 2:14PM
I have one question regarding killing spree does sword spec proc while using killing spree i hope id does cause then that will be some crazy burst potiental if it does. The killing spree+bladeflurry+sword spec combo will help combat in pvp as it give them some on demand burst where this helps alot
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 2:32PM
It does proc Sword Spec, but it DOES NOT include your regular attacks while this is happening. This means: don't use SnD, don't use it when Bloodlust is up, etc.
Knoc Oct 8th 2008 2:15PM
Ok, I know everyone is against the ambush/bs thing right now, and I doubt that will ever change.... BUT, has no one noticed this? And how that may turn some heads?
Ambush - Base damage increased from 335 to 907.5 (Rank 10).
Backstab - Base damage increased.
Obviously, Blizz has made some attempts to make daggers a usable weapon again outside of mutilate. Has ANYONE actually checked the numbers on these in beta?