Encrypted Text: Trunks of the Trees, Assassination and Combat
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we explore two of the new 51 point talents coming soon.If you ask 75% of the top Rogues worldwide what the premier PvP spec is, they'll tell you Subtlety. If you ask an even greater margin of raiders what Rogue spec pumps out the most DPS, you'll get a solid shout of "Combat, duh!" And if you should ever feel the urge to pick up a pair of daggers, every brother of the shadows will direct you towards Assassination. These three trees have been neatly defined by Blizzard, and it's fairly obvious what each is designed for.
What separates Rogues from every other class is our nearly unilateral use of 41 point talents. A dagger Rogue without Mutilate is gimped while a Sub PvP Rogue without Shadowstep is the laughing stock of the arena. And don't bother stepping into Sunwell without Surprise Attacks, unless getting trashed on the damage meters is your idea of fun. We've gotten so used to the comfort in knowing that dumping 41 points into any of our trees will yield a viable build. Now that 51 pointers are on the way in 3.0.2 and Wrath to follow, I've been asked by many Rogues "Will the bottom of our trees continue to be the anchors of our builds?" Find out after the cut.
With talents like Guardian Spirit and Deep Freeze being no-brainers for classes that invested in the tree, many Rogues are conflicted on our tier 11 talents. Instead of acting as an anchor for the entire build, they seem more positioned to add some fluff to the bottom of each existing tree. While constructing our new builds off of the really well balanced existing builds is easy for Blizzard, it can leave a sour taste in many mouths that were hoping for a completely new playstyle like Mutilate and Shadowstep provided for Rogues in TBC. These moves still provide a lot of value, however; so let's examine the first two and find out exactly if they're worth the investment of an additional 10 points.
Assassination Tree:
Let's start with Assassination. With Mutilate's positioning requirement removed and the addition of even more Poison synergy to the tree, Mutilate has really become the only viable option for a dagger-wielding Rogue. Hemo Daggers (obligatory "lol") and Combat Daggers are relics of the past: if you want to do it from behind (or now in the front!) with daggers, you're spec'ing Mutilate. It's a great ability that really defines the playstyle for a dagger Rogue.
Hunger for Blood is the newest addition to the Assassination tree. The best correlation to an existing spell or talent I can think of would be Tiger's Fury for Feral Druids, though Hunger for Blood (also HfB) is really much more powerful than that. The core idea is a damage increase to the tune of 9% with 3 stacks, with a bleed removal built in.
The energy cost is not nearly as steep as many Rogues will tell you it is. Any 51 point Assassination player will have also picked up Overkill, which reduces to cost of all abilities used while stealthed and immediately after by 10 energy; and HfB can be used without breaking stealth. So, for a mere 60 energy (6 seconds time) you can boost your opening damage by 9% for 30 seconds – making this spell blow similar talents like Master of Subtlety out of the water.
For just 30 energy every 30 seconds (or 3 seconds time) you can refresh the effect, preserving your 9% damage increase on ALL attacks. 90 energy for 60 seconds of 9% more damage sounds more than fair to me, especially when 60 of it can be spent while stealthed and before the fight even starts. It would cost 75 energy and 15 combo points to keep Slice and Dice up that long, which only increases your white damage, and would not be active at the start of a fight.
The HfB goodness doesn't stop their either. It also removes one Bleed effect per cast, and if it does remove a Bleed, it costs 15 less energy. This will give Mutilate Rogues a huge boost in mobility, as they can ensure that Deep Wounds or Rupture won't break their single Vanish (no Prep with HfB). Improved Gouge into HfB to remove any Bleeds; now Rogues can consistently restealth against enemy Rogues and Warriors. This will prove key to the viability of Mutilate in the arena at 80, and it will make HfB that much easier to keep up.
The only caveat to HfB is that it can be dispelled via Tranquilizing Shot and Anesthetic Poison, however Anesthetic Poison won't be used by many Rogues in the arena and will force them to choose another poison NOT to apply to you, and Tranq Shot will likely be saved to dispel a key Magic Buff off of a teammate instead of you. It will also only take off one charge from the stack, so Hunters will never be able to completely purge HfB from you unless you choose not to refresh it. And a word on keeping HfB up, some Rogues feel it adds even more micromanagement to an already bloated class. However, I feel that 1 button every 30 seconds is something we can handle: I have faith in you!
Combat:
Moving on to our raiding friends (and yes, I predict Combat will still be the raiding build of choice for maximum damage), let's talk about Killing Spree. While it has already had many endearing terms attached to it (BANKAI, Limit Break, etc), it really seems to be an attempt by Blizzard to give Combat Rogues some predictable on-demand burst damage. Combat Rogues are often known as the turtle in the famous tale of the Tortoise and the Hare: slow and steady wins the race. With their only true burst coming in the form of a 5 minute cooldown Adrenaline Rush, this really gives them the edge they need to compete decently in PvP.
My test with Killing Spree at level 80 show it doing between 6k and 8k damage to a level 80 mob, while wearing blue PvP gear. Translate this to a lower amount against a player, and you still have a sizeable burst that can demolish a target in 2.5 seconds. A Fan Of Knives interrupt into Killing Spree could be the deathblow that Combat has lacked in patches past.
However, I did notice one potential use of Killing Spree that could make it a must have for Combat even if you're not planning to arena. What's the secret? Blade Flurry.
Fan of Knives + Blade Flurry + Killing Spree. And yes, all Killing Spree hits will be under the effect of Blade Flurry. I literally dumped 20,000 damage into two mobs in just a couple seconds. And you can do this every 2 minutes! I suggest using Killing Spree while low on energy, as you will regain a ton of energy in the 2.5 seconds of inactivity when adding the 5 possible Combat Potency procs. Combat Rogues are positioned to continue their place as the ultimate PvE class in both solo and group settings. Add in the additional defensive capabilities the tree has received, and it may just be strong enough to see some combat Rogues in the SK100.
Summary:
That about sums up two of the new 51 point talents for the Rogue class. As always, your spec is your own, and how you choose to use your talent points should reflect the playstyle you prefer. In a PvE setting, I would say every Rogue should pick up HfB if they are already Mutilate or looking to switch to daggers. In PvP, Preparation becomes very attractive instead, making it a very close call between the two. And any Combat Rogue that wants to PvP should pick up Killing Spree, and it will remain to be theorycrafted if there are better talents elsewhere for maximum PvE DPS. As for Shadow Dance? You'll have to wait until next week!
Filed under: Rogue, Raiding, Talents, (Rogue) Encrypted Text, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 3)
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 2:36PM
I haven't tried a Backstab build, for the same reason I never played Mutilate for more than a week before PTR/Beta - because latency + positioning requirements = bad. The removal of positioning requirements and the deep synergy with Mutilate and the Assassination tree is why Mutilate is coming out as a powerful potential build. Backstab has very little synergy with other talents and it's positioning requirement and dependence on critical strikes make it lackluster in my eyes. Until I can test it, I can't say for sure.
Knoc Oct 8th 2008 2:43PM
Ok, I can definitely see the issue with latency and positional requirements, especially right now on beta. I'm just trying to think outside of the box. At 80, rogues will have roughly 40% crit (I assume) with talented 90% chance to crit ambush someone. Being able to do that twice with shadow dance sounds appealing to me.
With all the talents that are adding to ambush viability, I'm just interested to see how it all comes together. Yes there is still the issue of sustained dps of course, but it's interesting none the less.
Knoc Oct 8th 2008 2:51PM
Found a small video showing ambush/subt in pvp in the current build. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiPqYOXXxcE For those interested it starts at about 2:55
zappo Oct 8th 2008 3:02PM
Combat Daggers is dead. In the assassination tree, you need Pucturing Wounds, Leathality, and Ruthlessness. In subtlety you need Relentless Strikes and Opportunity.
Combat Daggers requires a bunch of extras in the other trees to get its damage, but because Blizzard split some essential things between two trees, and made relentless strikes 5 points, there is simply not enough points to allocate.
That's not to say that Blizzard couldn't bring it back in the future, but the way the current trees are laid out I can't see it happening in WotLK
Lemons Oct 8th 2008 3:30PM
He's not talking about combat daggers you rube, he's talking about shadow dance and ambush, I think it'll be a scary thing in pvp for sure (not to mention tricks of the trade + shadow dance + 5 ambushes in a row for pve! Not saying it's a viable pve spec but it'll be fun)
Think about it, the base damage got buffed, the crit got buffed, and it's now effected by lethality! You could even pick up glyph of ambush and increase the range. Even if you find it hard to get behind some people it won't matter because as soon as you do it'll be all over for them.
I'm an ambush dagger rogue right now (one of the few that exist I'm sure) and I'd have to say I'd love to see my spec vindicated come wotlk.
zappo Oct 8th 2008 2:18PM
Interesting thinking on Overkill. Initially I figured that would be a bad idea front-loading threat like that, but then I remembered that we can just toss that threat on the tank now, and optionally hunters/rogues thereafter.
I'm supposing I'd open with garrote > snd > shiv > evis, then go into a rotation with mutilate/rupture while refreshing HfB and using up extra combo points on evis (or possibly envenom).
This is actually kinda fun experimenting before the theory-crafters have stomped the fun-factor out with the "one true way to do it".
JPN Oct 8th 2008 2:45PM
I wish my main wasn't a rogue sometimes, because it's all about boring numbers, and cookie-cutter specs. We don't often get anything "cool", just ways to increase our damage. I mean, I get that DPS is our job, but it would be cool to have some fun little toys to play around with or do things differently, as opposed to just buffing damage.
Starstrike Oct 8th 2008 4:01PM
what is Killing Spree if not a great increase to damage and fun to do?
I love my ShS rogue but when I saw this ability I just dont get enough of it. Also, My rogue is alot less boring than remembering Shot rotations for my hunter. Now that they have made shot rots really easy I think I would be even more bored in raids with him. I'll stick with my (currently combat) rogue and Killing Spree for now.
I also noticed that this article doesnt mention the other new talent in combat tree called unfair advantage I believe (the one that makes you counterattack every time you dodge, i think that is the name of it). I was wondering the numbers for it exactly because I am not sure, but as far as I could tell it works really well and is affected by Blade Flurry.
Jeremy Oct 8th 2008 2:49PM
"Tranq Shot will likely be saved to dispel a key Magic Buff off of a teammate instead of you."
Tranq Shot may only be used on a "enemy target" not a teammate.
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 2:57PM
Yes, and the ENEMY hunter will save his Tranq shot to purge a magic BUFF off YOUR teammate, instead of using it on a Rogue with a 3-stack of HfB up.
Sorry for the confusing wording.
Josh Oct 8th 2008 3:04PM
Any info on the subtlety tree? Or did i just miss that? I only see assassination and combat covered here.
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 3:09PM
The post got way too long way too quick, Subtlety will be covered in next week's post, along with a quick recap of the major changes to each tree. Shadow Dance also was changed yesterday, so I will have to redo that portion. :)
Lemons Oct 8th 2008 3:52PM
It was changed yesterday? wha? I can't find any information. It looks like it's the same as it has been for weeks now : \
madsushi Oct 8th 2008 4:08PM
They removed the 2 second cooldowns of openers while under Shadow Dance, so you can ambush 3 times in a row, etc, so the GCD is the only thing affecting you.
Knoc Oct 8th 2008 4:26PM
So.... if I get this right, there is no longer the 2 second cooldown on any of the spells in shadow dance. So you could ambush someone 3x in a row, with a 90% crit rating which will slow movement speed by 30% each time. Even with resilience playing a factor you're still looking at 3k damage each crit on plate. That is absurd. And I am very much looking forward to it.
Dawkins Oct 8th 2008 3:36PM
I can out DPS combat rogues with my Mutilate build pretty easily as long as the boss is poison friendly. The only reason I go "Combat, duh!" is 'cause I have a pocket enhancement shaman or I know there is a progression boss that is not keen on poisons.
I don't know if you don't PvE enough or you are just new to the class, but your view on the current state of the game are not well informed.
"...if you should ever feel the urge to pick up a pair of daggers..." - Rogues are the class that get the most out of daggers so they might as well be using them. Also, deep assassination does more DPS than combat currently in the beta. You should try it out (and yes, I predict you are going to be wrong about raiding builds).
k1dsmoke Oct 8th 2008 4:54PM
You must be playing with really bad Combat rogues on live if your beating them. In its current state Assassination is Energy starved and makes keeping SnD and rupture up a chore.
I've played your typical Assassination build; combat daggers, even the hemo raid build and none of them compare to deep sword combat except maybe Fist/sword (if you don't have a Hyjal/s3 wep or better for your main hand and all your left with is the badge fist).
Now if your talking about beta thats a different story. It still seems HFB is kind of useless in PVE because its too taxing on your energy to keep rupture/envenom/eviscerate and SnD going WITH HFB.
Sure you can either start your SnD and then just 5 point envenom/eviscerate to keep it up and pop HFB before it wears off, but working out a Rupture and Envenom/Eviscerate combo is much better, and if you try to fit HFB in there G'luck.
Grubba Oct 8th 2008 5:34PM
What k1dsmoke said. If you are beating sword combat rogues right now on live with mutilate, you either significantly outgear them, or they're playing badly.
In beta, on the other hand, Mutilate has been on top for a while, but the recent changes to combat are bringing it up to where the two are pretty close now. It is looking very much like Blizzard is going to be able to make the two trees comparable in damage, giving us an actual choice of what we want to play based on playstyle preferences (or at least on luck with drops).
Rowl Oct 8th 2008 3:34PM
Rogues early talents are some of the best of the game imo.
They are all good and usefull even for any spec but wont drastically change the game and add a lot of flavor.
The big PVP/PVE gap sucks tho, its primitive design.
Lemons Oct 8th 2008 3:47PM
yes...yes...now to the time machine to next weeks column because I don't care about either of these specs!
Although it is great to understand them better, but really, 60 specs of a 9% damage increase? that's like an entire arena game's worth! Couple that with the fact that rogues can now mutilate from any position and assassination is looking very scary come wotlk!
but yeah seriously tho, I'm really looking forward to the one on sub, it's long overdue considering combat and assassination already had wotlk articles done on them a while back and sub didn't : (