Scattered Shots: What we didn't get

Welcome to another week of Scattered Shots, WoW Insider's column for Hunter miscellany and mischief.
So with Wrath of the Lich King coming closer and closer, classes are probably getting more or less close to what they'll look like when it ships. Maybe.
As for Hunters, We have our problems, be they a 41 point talent that won't be done in time for Wrath, an Aspect of the Viper identity crisis, or a new skill suddenly removed. But honestly, with the removal of shot clipping, the new Disengage and the new Pet talent system, I'm actually cautiously optimistic about our place in Wrath. We may need another patch or two before we're really settled, but we're getting some very basic class changes in Wrath that have been long overdue, and I'm hopeful that the class will end up solid by the time people are picking out their Arthas-killing teams and/or Season 6 Arena teams.
But that aside, permit me this week to opine upon some of the stuff we really did miss out on. Why did Blizzard take it back? Did we need it? Should we get it back again?
This is something I've actually mentioned before, but the list probably wouldn't be complete without it. So the first time we lost Bear Trap, we didn't lose Bear Trap as much as get it merged with Freezing Trap. Overall, that was a good thing. It was one less space on the hot bars, and it gave Freezing Arrow some much needed extra utility, allowing the crowd control to be a bit more forgiving. Any Hunter who's had a Warlock land a stray Corruption on a Frozen target can tell you how much the Bear Trap mechanic was needed.
Unfortunately, it was taken out again a few patches ago, with Ghostcrawler citing the need for them to prevent pets from attacking the Freezing Pet. Like I said last week, that feels like cutting off your hand to fix a sore pinky finger. We'll get it back, sure, but how long will take? We're already going to be waiting for our 41-point Survival skill until after Wrath. It's all well and good to say, "Oh, you'll get these abilities in a future patch," but we want to be able to hold our own in a Naxxramas group now.
Then again, in the case of Freezing Trap, we can make do without the Bear Trap mechanic, as long as everyone's still mindful of the trap, especially now that +hit applies to both physical and spell hit, ending the "Do traps resist like spells or miss like physical hits" debate forever. We did it for years before now anyway.
To say that we had this one taken away is probably a bit of a misnomer, since we never had it. It was found via datamining a few Beta builds ago, and there was a minor buzz among the Beta Hunter community that we might finally be getting something really useful for PvP, a shot that not would slow would-be pillar dancers to a crawl, but then buff our shots to make sure we did some real damage before they broke free and tried to flee.
Here's the secret on that, though: Technically, it's been around for a while. It was originally tested in the original Beta, but never saw the light of day. It was probably an offshoot of the WC3 Dark Ranger's Black Arrow, which did massive damage and had a chance to turn the target into the ranger's undead minion. So given that, I suppose you can't blame Blizzard for taking it from us right now, especially since it never even saw testing on this phase of the Beta.
Of course, regardless, it would have been a nice little skill to have. I still don't think we quite have the good solid ability we need to help combat pillar dancers in PvP. That said, I can't help but think that what we could use more than something like Black Arrow is another simple mechanics change: Just allow us to Auto-Shot while running. This would at least allow us to keep harassing a moving target like a pillar dancer even as we have to run to keep up with them. Since we can't shoot and keep up with them, and don't have a reliable long term method of slowing them down and thus keeping them from ducking for cover (which Black Arrow would provide), we still have to deal with pillar dancing.
This one's been covered a bit by David Bowers, but the questions are pertinent. This is another yo-yo "gift" for Hunters that keeps being given and taken away, over and over again, although this time, it looks like it's probably gone for good. We can't have a Rogue ability, but Rogues? Yeah, they can have Misdirect.
But the big question: Would Camouflage have helped us? Maybe so. The trap laying is what would have been really nice, allowing us a good chance to catch an arena opponent by surprise without having to mask our movements or blow Scatter Shot or Intimidation just to get them to trigger a trap.
That said, there's other ways to help us in Arenas. Camouflage would have been most useful in Battlegrounds, where we hardly need it. We're already well enough off in Battlegrounds, where we can defend an area and make attackers enter our traps, or hide behind a large mob of melee and take potshots. Now, I'm not saying I would have complained if we got Camouflage. It really would have been great. But I think we'll survive without it, assuming we get some other decent needed buffs.
Pet Resilience
Ok, technically this one was never promised to us, but I feel like it's one of my personal crusades now. I've long thought that pets are just too much a part of our class and abilities, especially with Master's Call, for them to be as squishy as they are. Without resilience, they really are sitting ducks in Arenas, and as long as they are, there's going to be a point in Arena play where they're too easily killable, and we use too much of our utility and extra damage in a way that is incredibly hard to get back. Even talented, resurrecting a pet is hardly as easily as dispelling a debuff.
But it really does seem like Resilience is off the table, according to the Devs. Still, not all hope is lost. Tenacity pets (the ever popular Scorpid and the AC-reducing Worm belong to this family) have a talent called Grace of the Mantis, which in the most recent builds, offers a 4% chance to avoid critical hits for 2 points. As long as that stays in, we will at least have resilience to a point. Whether it will be enough, I'm not sure. Arena gear is only going to get more and more powerful, and as it does, that 4% will look mighty dinky.
One thing that is worth mentioning though, is that Ghostcrawler has been heard to say that pet survivability needs more testing. And while I can't find it now, I swear I saw a post a few days ago where either she or Koraa wonders if they should try a system where pets do much less DPS, but are very durable. I have to admit, the idea intrigues me as well. As long as I get a decent buff to my personal DPS, and my pet can still keep aggro in PvE soloing and small grouping, I'd be willing to give it a try too. When a pet makes up so much of your own personal utility via their family ability, Master's Call, and talents like Intimidation and The Beast Within, it's really a pain when he dies, and pets still die far too easily in PvP.
Whither Hunters?
I'll be frank. I'm not nearly as excited about Hunters as I once was in Beta. Blizzard giveth and Blizzard taketh away, I know, but it's sometimes a bit bemusing when you watch so much stuff being taken away from Hunters, even as you know intellectually that Beta is a time for testing stuff, and not all tests work out. We never had most of it in the first place on live servers, so technically, we haven't lost much.
If nothing else, when Wrath comes out, we'll have no more shot clipping and a bunch of shiny new pet abilities, so that's awesome. I can't overstate how awesome they are, I'm serious. Still, when we'll also be without at least one 41 point talent and with a whole gamut of new class skills either taken away completely or removed pending bug fixes, will we be seriously considered for Naxxramas groups and season 5 Arena teams?
That remains to be seen.
Filed under: Hunter, Arena, Wrath of the Lich King, Talents, Raiding, Expansions, Instances, PvP, Analysis / Opinion, (Hunter) Scattered Shots






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 5)
Ahoni Oct 9th 2008 1:09PM
Blah blah arena blah blah arena blah blah.
/sigh
Tinwhisker Oct 9th 2008 1:12PM
"We can't have a Rogue ability, but Rogues? Yeah, they can have Misdirect."
Stealth is a rogue ability that is core to the class. Misdirect is a high end raid utility that was given to hunters as a tool.
The same tool being given to rogues 10 levels later doesn't mean that hunters should get a core ability that we are built on. Are you going to argue that hunters are built around misdirect? If we're going to be fair, I'll give up rogue misdirect and you can give up your 'mortal strike/wound poison'.
lazarel Oct 9th 2008 1:21PM
C'mon Rogues, get over yourselves...
Core Ability... really? So giving a hunter your CORE ability ruins the game for you? It's not like a hunter could stealth, stun you, stay stealthed, stun someone else, and then attack with a massive crit. It's not like a hunter could restealth during combat and then turn on the jets and flee. Jeez.
NO ONE CAN HAVE MY TOYS BUT ME!!!!!
Spend much time popping other kids ballons as a child?
Falcio Oct 9th 2008 1:47PM
All I'm asking is, why is it that we can't get an ability because we're not one class, but that same class can have our ability, an ability that /defined/ us in the raid environment in TBC?
You say it doesn't matter because Misdirect doesn't define Hunters. This is true, to an extent. [if Hunters didn't have MD, we probably wouldn't be in high-end raids a lot] But our stealth wouldn't define us like it does a Rogue. It's just a Hunter Pet's Prowl, only modified for the Hunter, as well.
Simple as that. If a Rogue had a problem with the Hunters having a stealth, they should've brought it up when pets had Prowl.
And really, is it that bad for a Hunter to be a ranged Rogue at times? Not really, no. About as bad as it would be for a Rogue to be a melee Hunter, which is what this new Misdirect would help accomplish for them. Why shouldn't Hunters get something that, technically, is part of what the class is about: prowling, and finding your prey, then killing it? We're Hunters, dammit.
Robert M Oct 9th 2008 1:55PM
Tinwhisker,
For those of us that can read the blue posts, we don’t need you regurgitating their rationale here. Rogues are so OP in pvp, would it kill you to share just part of the stealth aspect?
Hunters shouldn't worry anyway. As a tank and raid leader, I'll still take a ranged dps like a hunter over any rogue, and now with the homoginization of raid buffs, your value for nasty unrelenting DPS will still have those of you that aren't huntards at top of any raid leaders wish list.
Lemons Oct 9th 2008 2:30PM
Yes it would kill us to share one of our core aspects, you idiots. Christ, hunters are greedy, you already want every piece of gear in the game and now you want every ability, even the abilities that define other classes!
Rogues and druids are the only ones who should be able to stealth, end of story. Sure we got ur misdirect but comparing misdirect to stealth is like comparing Steven Segal to Chuck Norris. They are NOT equal!
If Rogues got pets then you'd have a legitimate gripe.
p.s. don't say "all the other classes DO have pets" no...they really don't...most of those pets are on a timer and suck compared to your pets so...yeah.
lazarel Oct 9th 2008 3:20PM
@ Lemons...
Stop hating. Play your class.
And really, let TinWhiskey make his own points, he's doing better without your input.
I respect his argument, I just disagree. I'm not saying we should get *THIS* because *THEY* got something similar to what we have.
I'm saying I would like to get this because it's cool and I want it and I see a use for it.
I don't hate on your class, quit hating on mine. I'm sorry you lost a roll to a Hunter once, or got ganked when you were a noob, or whatever happened. Let it go.
shisho Oct 9th 2008 3:49PM
They're making valid points, not reciting BLUE rationale. There's tons of whining as to why you should get something excessive, because... you play that class. The best reason you can come up with is because of a threat based PvE skill that's similar to misdirection.
I don't think I've seen anyone put out a reason why hunter's need a stealth for PvE or stealth to function in PvP, or demonstrate how it would be balanced. It’s a ranged class with moderately high damage mitigation.
The point of stealth on a rogue is because.... drum roll.... you're wearing leather and you're melee. How well do you think a rogue would do against a hunter if he came barreling after him from 50 yds away in plain view?
Play a rogue, and go understand that everything they do is generally to keep them alive so they can deliver damage. If a rogue isn’t using its bag of tricks it’s getting shredded to pieces.
I've played all the classes, and to this day hunter's have more than enough tools to prevent and ruin a rogue's day. Now you're saying you need their stealth? How pitiful are you at playing hunter that you want stealth that badly?
Seriously, the misdirection thing is just a whiner's excuse. No one serious looks at the two abilities and tags an equal value to them.
It's like:
Warrior gets a threat misdirect for raids: We want to wear plate armor and shields too!
Priest gets a threat misdirect for raids: We should get magic shields and/or healing too!
Paladin gets a threat misdirect for raids: We should get Divine Shield too!
You do realize that this skill similarity thing has gone back and forth in the past, and hunter's have also been given mechanics without equal compensation to the class that originally had it? There’s seriously no rule of some kind of equal trade off of game mechanics between classes.
IE - What's that Mortal Strike debuff... what did those pesky warriors get that hunter’s can do to compensate such a change?!
Stealth != Misdirect
Stealth != Misdirect
Stealth != Misdirect
Stealth != Misdirect
Stealth != Misdirect
T_T more
Mick Oct 9th 2008 4:10PM
It's pretty simple why Blizzard made this decision.
One skill is very useful in pvp.
One skill has no use and zero impact in pvp.
Now figure out which is which and you'll know why they didn't implement it.
Ærynn Lómëhtar Oct 9th 2008 6:41PM
The ability to stealthily stalk our prey SHOULD have been one of a hunter's core abilities. I can go on about other stuff that should have been core abilities (like having our own quest line to tame our own mounts), but arguing that one class shouldn't have an ability that is core to another and that one CAN have an ability as long as it's an end-game tool is not even fair.
If that's the case, give us the ability to lace our arrows with poison (poisoned auto shots) and the ability to stun repeatedly (no cooldowns on concussive shots). If I'm not mistaken, those are end-game tools... but even I don't see that as being particularly right.
Yes, that's what the devs say and I will accept it—what else can we do? I am still happy that the devs finally allowed Trueshot Aura to scale, and that Beastmasters will finally not be the only spec allowed to raid.
Nick S Oct 9th 2008 1:16PM
I'm facing a serious dilemma when I reach Wrath. Do I level my Hunter first so that I can start raiding (which I prefer) right away, or do I level a class that can compete in the Arenas first so that I have a snowball's chance in hell of getting my foot in the Arena door before all the hardcore PvPers are wearing top-tier PvP gear?
Tough decisions.
st1pe Oct 9th 2008 1:19PM
i totally agree with tinwhisker. I play a hunter and i dont think that can compare, yea if they were giving rogues pets or something! Its probably better for the greater wow community that rogues get a misdirection type move. It most certainly isnt going to affect the Hunter class.
lazarel Oct 9th 2008 1:25PM
And don't misunderstand my reply to Tinwhisker... I could care less that they get a misdirection. Good for them, good for ANY CLASS that gets something they can use. I've never jumped on a class that got nerfed and said 'Good.. they deserve it'.
It's a game, it's supposed to be fun.
zappo Oct 9th 2008 1:46PM
Actually in situations where a group would want more damage, I'd probably throw tricks of the trade on a hunter. So indirectly it sorta does affect hunters.
Tinwhisker Oct 9th 2008 1:48PM
Stealth is already shared with Druids (and hunter pets), or didn't you notice? It's an incredibly powerful ability suited to melee.
As for saying you 'can't have it' or 'deserve to get nerfed', I'm saying you don't need it and adds next to nothing to your class. Hunter's are already suffering from button bloat, do you really want more?
Yeah, it sucks that you've got unfinished talents but even Ghostcrawler admits that hunters have gotten monumentally more attention than any other class in the expansion with may the exception of death knights and you're still not happy unless you have all the weapons, er skills.
lazarel Oct 9th 2008 2:53PM
@ Tinwhisker...
I'm not trying to fight or anything, but...
"As for saying you 'can't have it' or 'deserve to get nerfed', I'm saying you don't need it and adds next to nothing to your class."
Well, if it adds next to nothing, why care if we get it?
"Hunter's are already suffering from button bloat, do you really want more?"
Yes, I always want more... I'll choose which buttons I do and don't use. I appreciate the concern, but more options are always better.
luv2wow Oct 9th 2008 1:23PM
You forgot to mention that concussive shot cooldown got doubled....that will really help us not kite things.....
lynnia+alts Oct 9th 2008 1:23PM
Dont mean to be picky but isnt it a 51 point talent thats unfinished??
Pucechan Oct 9th 2008 4:59PM
No it's not, it's the Survival 41-pointer that's unfinished.
At the moment Trap Mastery has been moved into the 41-point slot as a temporary measure while it's worked on.
The devs have stated it won't be finished for launch. Which kinda leaves Survival in a strange place.
Fobok Oct 9th 2008 1:24PM
Personally, as a hunter, I'm loving what's coming in Wrath. It seems all the complaints have to do with arenas. Well, remember, some of us have no real interest in arenas at all.