BlizzCon 2008: WoW Raids and Dungeons Panel
by Adam Holisky 
Oct 11th 2008 at 2:58PM
12:59PM Panel is over! Thanks for reading!
12:58PM Q: "Can you mix teir bonuses from old sets, like tier 2 and 3?" A: "I don't like to see that. If you feel compelled to actually wear gear that is 5 years old, that's a sign something is messed up."
12:57PM Q: "Is there a story line for Ashbringer? What is happening to the old Naxx legendary items?" A: "Get your old naxx items within the next two days, because then they're gone." Lots of boos at that.
12:56PM Q: "Will there be a Sunwell version of Wrath where only the top end guilds defeat the encounters?" A: "Naxx is going to be blown through by the top end guilds. Will there be a raid at the end that only the top of 1% will be able to beat? No, I hope not. I want a raid that is more accessible than SWP was."
12:55PM Q: "When do you think top ends guild will have beaten the xpac?" Crowd yells "Two weeks!" Real answer: "Less than that. The expansion won't be done until you take your sword out of Arthas' Chest."
12:54PM Q: "Are you going to keep dropping tokens? Any way to help when one token won't drop?" A: "We're dropping more loot from bosses, so that should help. We're not looking at dropping one of each token. What we did do to help this is allow the purchase of tokens with badges. I think you can buy the shoulders and chest [with tokens]."
12:52PM Additional answer: "We want to create an epic five-man eventually. [Creating larger dungeons] is definitely something we're looking at doing in the future." Crowd applauds at that. It appears this crowd is filled with some "hard core" raiders.
12:51PM Q: "The dungeon design in BC was different from classic because there are no super dungeons like BRS. Going to do anything like in DM where you could go from wing to wing via passages and not have to go outside the instance?" A: "Great question, that's something we think of often."
12:49PM The crowd appreciated the presentation. But they're not enjoying the answers coming out of the Q&A session. A lot of grumbling around me about "not having a raid as difficult as SWP." A guy just told the devs: "I think you're wrong, btw." Next guy up says "Kil'Jaden is a wonderful encounter, thanks for that by the way." Lots of applause.
12:47PM Q: "UBRS was truly puggable. If you were a new player it helped bridge the gap. Kara really missed that. Is there a plan for 10-man raids that have no lockout or a shorter lockout?" A: "The issue of a lockout is due to items. If there is no lockout, we can't give as good of rewards in the dungeon. It's something we've discussed and we might do in the future. But for right now, no."
12:46PM More A: "We don't want to push the players too far. We don't want to push them to things that are negative to their guild."
12:45PM Q: "In BC after HKM and Mag was fixed, things wrapped up in SWP which is hard. Naxx is easy. Going to be a SWP difficulty level raid in WotLk?" A: "You'll see more difficult encounters as you go on. We won't get to the level of difficulty of SWP."
12:43PM Q: "Can hunters tank a 5 man with my pet?" LOTS of boos. A: "Goal is for any defense specd pet to be able to OT, not MT."
12:42PM Q: "What are you planning to do with keys in WotLK?" A: "You have to be level 80." Pause. Boos. Crowd wants keys. Additional answer: "But with Malygos you have to get a thing from Naxx, so that's like a key."
12:41PM Additional note: Badges can be used to purchase additional set pieces to help fill out sets.
12:40PM Q: "As a moonkin you solved a lot of gear problems, but now 70% of the raid is going to be rolling on my caster weapon. Going to solve this so we don't have to see the same weapon drop 30 times?" A: "You should see the same proportions of caster and melee weapons drop." They didn't really answer the question in my opinion.
12:39PM Q: "Going to open up Uldum and the other dungeons?" A: "They haven't falled off the map. They just need to fit with the story we're telling. We've got this huge queue of dungeons we can choose from." More answers: "The plan right now is no."
12:37PM Q: "Whats going to happen with legendaries?" A: "Time for caster legendaries again...don't want to do random drops. Like the old Naxx way of doing legendaries."
12:36PM Q: "People fall asleep at night while raiding. We're screwed until they DC completely and are forced to zone out. Any way raid leaders can force people out?" Crowd ERUPTS in applause. A: "It's something we've looekd at." Doesn't look like they're going to do it, despite the fan approval.
12:35PM All done with the main part. Now Q&A.
12:35PM Any ratio of 10-man sets and 25-man sets will allow the set of gear to be completed, and you'll get the set bonus. Ie: 2 pieces from 10-man naxx and 2 pieces from 25-man naxx will give you a 4 piece bonus.
12:34PM They also wanted to address the way the badges play out in WotLK. They wanted to give incentives to get better rewards - hence the multiple new badge types. We already knew this, but nice to hear the thought process.
12:32PM We'll see loot that is "flat out better" than what normal 80 dungeons give. More applause.
12:32PM "In WotLK we decided to take the heroic dungeons up a tier from the level 80 dungeons." Lots of applause at that.
12:32PM "One of the things we didn't really like the feel of was the way heroic dungeons played out as far as itemization is concerned."
12:31PM All done with EoE. Even though the demo messed up, some good footage we'll get you soon.
12:31PM Demo is bugged. Apparently being a GM in the raid instance made it not work right.
12:30PM They had a "Design Menu" that they pulled down and made themselves no longer invincible.
12:29PM We just got a look at the developer view of WoW!
12:29PM EoE is a great looking space area. You're on a platform in space. Looks a lot like StarCraft, in some ways. Nothing new here either, we've seen all these screenshots before.
12:28PM Eye of Eternity is the home of Malygos, Aspect of Magic.
12:27PM All done with CoA. Next up is Eye of Eternity.
12:27PM They're not expecting people to get the twilight drake mount from the hard version of this until a patch or so after release. "But you guys are smart, so I'm sure you'll find a way."
12:26PM The hard way is to not kill the twilight drake (the sub-bosses), and just kill the main dragon. Nothing new again, but nice to see this.
12:26PM Main boss is a black dragon, and the sub-bosses are also there. The sub-bosses will drop a badge only, no other loot. Kill the main dragon for all the loot.
12:25PM Lots of great red and black lava going around.
12:25PM Looking at CoA now. It's a huge outdoor area with the feel of MC and Blasted Lands.
12:24PM Learned a lot from ZA too - they want to continue to keep that challenge format where both low-geared raiders and high-geared raiders want to run it.
12:24PM CoA is an intro to raiding. They made a mistake in that Grull and Mag was really really hard when they came out. "You went into these rooms and you got your ass kicked."
12:23PM First raid dungeon up is Chamber of the Aspects.
12:23PM Going over already known material... 10 & 25 person versions, everyone can raid depending on your social situation you have (ie: how many people you can get to raid with you).
12:22PM All done with Ak. Next up - raid zones. Everyone is applauding. Getting loud.
12:22PM If you're an elemental shaman, you'll fight a elemental shaman in the mirror world.
12:21PM Think of this mechanic as a modified version of Leotharas the Blind in SSC.
12:21PM This boss send you eventually into the shadow world - where mirror images of your party kill you for a time.
12:20PM The final boss of Ak is in a big room near the top - grand on the scale of the dwarves in LotR. The final boss is a faseless one.
12:19PM "Vampire lore with the Blood Prince boss in Ak."
12:17PM Lots of great looking buildings. The buildings are heavily influenced by original naxx art style, since KT pulled Naxx out of these buildings. Interesting.
12:16PM Back to the live gameplay in GM view of Ak. For those of you that haven't been to the dungeon yet, think of the imagery given to us by Salvatore in his Dark Elf series of books.
12:16PM The goal of Ak will be to help tell part of the story of Northrend.
12:15PM Ak is underground, and is using new technology that makes the dungeon itself be completely in a cave. It mixes both indoor and outdoor spaces in a way that hasn't been done before.
12:15PM Ak will re-introduce the faceless ones.
12:14PM Old gods will be an ongoing story in Northrend. First old god was C'Thun, and there will be more.
12:14PM Done with HoL. Crowd starts clapping and really likes the instance.
12:13PM They're able to do very custom mini-cinematics, like those near Loken in Halls of Lightening. Check it out in the beta if you haven't already - very cool and very deep in lore. Lots of moving lights and patterns, and lots of characters.
12:12PM And BWL.
12:12PM They also want to allow people to see the outdoors from dungeons. He's talking like it's new... but we've seen this since Kara...
12:11PM They were pushing tons of custom models for WotLK. Ie: things that look unique. Crowd is happy and applauds. Lots of agreement from the people around me.
12:10PM They want to give the impression that everything is very scary and show the bosses before you hit them. They want to give you a sense that this is an epic place.
12:09PM Yup, a GM view. They're moving the in-game camera around the entire dungeon at will, looking at everything.
12:09PM They'll be running us through the Halls of Lightning now, showing gameplay footage. Very neat view. Perhaps a special GM mode?
12:08PM Moved up and sitting right next to the stage now. Audio problem solved.
12:04PM They need to fix the audio. People can't hear!
12:03PM Okay. Live blog is setup! And the panel is starting. Lots of applause.
12:01PM Test live blog entry. This is only a test.
Filed under: BlizzCon
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
svenhoek Oct 11th 2008 3:08PM
Hang on, he said "we dont want you to be fighting titans right when you start..." Then he did a shifty eye like he said something he shouldnt have. Titan raid boss?
Desanduin Oct 11th 2008 3:14PM
My first live blog! I'm glad to hear that they're staying firm on the custom models. We've seen them in all of the beta videos so far, but it's great they're keeping it that way.
Dightkuz Oct 11th 2008 3:14PM
Goddamn, wasnt there supposed to be a live stream somewhere? Can't find it :(
Farrell Oct 11th 2008 3:29PM
"but we've seen this since Kara.."
And SFK... and Scholo
[you can jump out of both instances...]
Of course, that's if I understand your meaning
INStrom Oct 11th 2008 3:36PM
All I want to know is if they are trying to make some of the new instances like the pre BC instances.
You know, bigger, with more side stuff to do and options to take, kinda like an adventure dungeon.
BC instances were more like an on rail shooter where theres 1 route and 3 bosses.
They got boring pretty fast even though they were awsome.
Phyerfly Oct 11th 2008 3:49PM
You missed the question from the rogue who asked if the dual-spec switching was going to be tuned to the point that he'd need to be combat for one fight and subtlety for another.
BTW, the answer was a resounding no.
Rakash Oct 11th 2008 4:13PM
That was a good question.
With min/max the way it is and how blizz always balances things in account for what we can do it could happen.
The idea of having dual specs is to have the option for a second spec, not just to have another must have spec.
Like shamans going from elemental in a heavy unfriendly fight then enchancement for the timed encounter boss with low armor.
Crescent Oct 11th 2008 3:52PM
Live audio streams can be found on WoWRadios website here
dcwdvl Oct 11th 2008 4:02PM
I'm kind of disappointed there won't be a raid similar to SWP. SWP provided a challenge, and something a guild couldn't burn through in a couple weeks. I'll agree it was probably slightly too hard, but I hope the hardest raid in Wrath isn't something significantly easier; slightly easier yes, significantly no.
aurorallew Oct 11th 2008 4:04PM
Hardcore raiders upset they aren't getting another SWP. In old WoW, vanilla WoW, Blizzard conditioned raiders to believe the best rewards in the game would always theirs and they had a right to content most of the players would never see. The old Naxxramas was a diamond-encrusted horse buggy -- expensive and obsolete the day it launched.
Blizz has been regretting that mistake since launch, and is finally creating a progressive PvE path that guilds of normal people can pursue.
As a result, a tiny fraction of the .05 percent of the players who go to Blizzcon are revolting. I'm sure Blizzard understands that people at Blizzcon don't represent the average WoW player. Mistakes like SWP and the old Naxxramas serve to divide players and make people angry they're paying for content they can't use.
Rob Oct 11th 2008 4:18PM
You know i used to think like this. Now I think guilds that have gone through all the content in the game need something more to keep them interested. SW was great for this. It was hard, such that you had to have BT on farm to get in there and down bosses. It was a reversion to the old days where badge gear didn't cut it and there had to be zero slack in the raid. ALot of people like that (not me - but I realize that alot do). Anyway I hope in a year or so there will be another SW instance.
incoherent Oct 11th 2008 4:07PM
So... Should we interpret the question about old Naxx items as proof that the patch is in fact coming Tuesday? Previously it was simply "extremely likely", not confirmed.
Alaw Oct 11th 2008 4:08PM
A: "Get your old naxx items within the next two days, because then they're gone."
patch date confirmed : )
crsh Oct 11th 2008 4:12PM
"UBRS was truly puggable. If you were a new player it helped bridge the gap. Kara really missed that."
Some folks must have bad memory, UBRS was puggable but the loot wasn't better than what you found in 5-mans; furthermore Karazhan, after it got nerfed so many times, is definitely puggable, there's practically no reason anymore to waste time in heroic 5-mans.
Remember the original order: normal 5-mans, heroic 5-mans, Karazhan, etc. Now newly-leveled toons just go straight to Karazhan, pick up epic gear and ~20 badges in one run. If you don't think that's much faster character progression to allow you to "catch up", nothing is.
Removing the timer on Karazhan, given the gear and badges that drop there, would only make it an even bigger joke imo.
Zep Oct 11th 2008 4:31PM
12:12PM They also want to allow people to see the outdoors from dungeons. He's talking like it's new... but we've seen this since Kara...
You mean Shadowfang Keep. Where you could actually jump outside and zone out.
Jarnis Oct 11th 2008 4:59PM
"A: "You'll see more difficult encounters as you go on. We won't get to the level of difficulty of SWP.""
This is stupid. People are already revolting that the 5man and heroic 5man content is so easy that a group of retarded monkeys bashing their head at the keyboard could complete them. If same trend continues to raids, WOTLK will be the most epic failure in the history of failures.
MMOs have ZERO point if there is zero challenge. Things you _can't_ do, until you do the time (gear up, practice). SWP was the best instance since Naxx40 because it required actual skill. SWP was the first instance where we couldn't just pick random_people from our large guild roster and "try them out" - even just 2-3 sub-performing people would turn the raid into a wipe-fest. So we trained the people in Hyjal/BT that is much more forgiving.
If WOTLK has no challenging raid content, hardcore raiders will raise holy hell 0.0005 seconds after all the available content has been smashed through. It doesn't matter if it's the top 1% - the next 2-5% will show up to the same point a few weeks later, and very soon the negative publicity will be something epic to watch.
aurorallew Oct 11th 2008 5:10PM
Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Terrant Oct 11th 2008 6:02PM
All right, do all the Wrath content with one hand tied behind your back. Harder is more fun, right?
Exiledchaos Oct 12th 2008 3:10AM
Don't spend any of your talent points. Ever. And Voila! Difficulty level restored! Pick your own handicap!
Sonmerlong Oct 13th 2008 10:11AM
I agree Jarnis.
But your preaching to the wrong crowd, a lot good and friendly people hang out on this blog, but most that post are very casual, despite the fact that quite a number of people agree with you that the difficulty level inherint in the game seems to have dropped and that we need another SWP eventually, you will not find those people here.
Suggesting this type of thing will only draw anger, at least here on wowinsider, this is a good blog to find news, but most of the people that post here (not all) hate it when someone speaks of making things semi difficult, or adding content on a steep progression path. Just not realy a good forum for a topic such as this.
Here there be lovers of the easy mode. Yar..