Encrypted Text: Dough for your cookie cutters
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. In this special 3.0.2 edition of Encrypted Text, we'll be talking about the new talent trees that are coming this Tuesday with the release of the patch.With 3.0.2 right around the corner, all three of our precious talent trees are about to get shaken up. Talents are getting moved around, point costs are travelling in both directions, and a lot of rebalancing is taking place. Blizzard has been removing bloat from certain areas, and also adding some very cool new abilities for our class.
With all these changes, it can be hard to see the forest for the trees. (Get it? Talent trees? Haha!) For a detailed analysis of all the changes, I recommend reading the patch notes. I am going to give my readers (you) exactly what a busy Rogue wants: what's nerfed, what's buffed, what's good when the dust settles?
In order to condense all of this information into a single article, I will be rating each change with a number in parenthesis, e.g. (5) is a big buff or is an awesome new talent, (1) is a big nerf or a not-so-useful new talent, (3) means the talent wasn't changed much, just moved around, or the new talent is okay.
Assassination Changes:
Buffed:
Vile Poisons (5), Murder (4), Deadened Nerves (5), Find Weakness (4), Master Poisoner (3), Vigor (3).
Nerfed:
Improved Poisons (3), Fleet Footed (3).
New PvP talents:
Blood Spatter (5), Deadly Brew (5), Overkill (2).
New PvE talents:
Blood Spatter (5), Focused Attacks (5), Turn the Tables (4), Cut to the Chase (4), Hunger for Blood (4)
Takeaway:
Assassination saw several buffs, in particular to the poison talents. Nearly all of their changes were buffs, and their nerfs were not significant. With the changes to the poison mechanics (I talked about this a bit ago) and the attempt to remove RNG from WoW, the Assassination tree comes out with no true nerfs and a lot of very strong new talents. Daggers are back, and Mutilate will be the facilitator of their return. Hunger for Blood also adds some variety to the Mutilate rotation, attempting to set it apart from the old standby of Combat.
Builds:
41/5/15 – Picks up Blood Spatter + Serrated Blades for 60% more Rupture damage, also picks up all the nice stealth and PvP talents in Subtlety. I see this as being the serious PvP Mutilate build until 80, where Mutilate + Prep becomes possible.
51/3/7 – PvE build with Hunger for Blood. I really like the way this build looks, and this will be the base for the Mutilate raiding build at 80 as well. Getting used to the new rotations now will make it easier as you level in WotLK.
42/12/7 – PvE with more combat talents, as we see in Mutilate builds today. I don't think this is as strong as the HfB build, but it will be more consistent with what a Mutilate Rogue would play with currently.
Combat Changes:
Buffed:
Deflection (5), Precision (3), Endurance (3), Aggression (3), Mace Specialization (5 in my opinion!), Blade Twisting (5), Vitality (5).
Nerfed:
Mace Specialization (1 if you loved the RNG)
New PvP talents:
Throwing Specialization (1), Unfair Advantage (3), Savage Combat (4), Prey on the Weak (3), Killing Spree (3)
New PvE talents:
Savage Combat (4), Prey on the Weak (4), Killing Spree (3)
Takeaway:
Combat had several buffs and a lot of the tree's bloat has been removed. However, many of the new talents are lackluster, and very boring "your DPS will go up by X" type talents that Combat has been plagued with for so long. I think Unfair Advantage may be my new favorite Rogue talent, it really adds some flavor to deep Combat. Look to avoid Throwing Specialization, it's nearly a complete waste if you already have your PvP gloves. Killing Spree is great talent to try out, I suggest every Rogue play with it once.
Builds:
5/51/5 – Vanilla combat build, very similar to what a raiding Rogue would use today. We pick up all the new talents, which are all significant DPS increases.
0/49/12 – A PvP build that picks up the important Sub talents. Combat won't really be viable as a PvP build until there are more points to allocate to other trees.
Subtlety Changes:
Buffed:
Master of Deception (5), Opportunity (5), Camouflage (5), Endurance (3), Setup (4), Initiative (4), Improved Ambush (5), Sinister Calling (4).
Nerfed:
Enveloping Shadows (1), Shadowstep (1, no longer usable while rooted), Relentless Strikes (1, this talent was moved to Subtlety and had its point cost increased from 1 to 5 for the same effect - the biggest nerf of this patch for Rogues.)
New PvP talents:
Waylay (2), Filthy Tricks (3), Slaughter from the Shadows (5), Shadow Dance (2).
New PvE talents:
Honor Among Thieves (3), Filthy Tricks (4), Slaughter from the Shadows (5).
Takeaway:
Shadowstep was nerfed very hard though almost every other Subtlety talent was buffed nicely. However, many of our new talents in Sub are very situational or just plain terrible. Enveloping Shadows may prove to be useful in the more AoE-centric WotLK, but I see it as a big nerf on one of my favorite RNG talents. Rogues don't have a lot of that random proc goodness that will completely own our targets. We are traditionally very calculated and a very precise class, so we will largely be buffed by the removal of our opponents' RNG talents and abilities. I am also very disappointed in Shadow Dance, I will cover it in detail on Wednesday.
Builds:
8/2/51 – This Shadow Dance Daggers is for the guys who love to Ambush. I personally don't think Shadow Dance is worth the point investment. However, if you want to Ambush 3 times in a row, this is the build to do it with.
10/0/51 – Shadow Dance Hemo again features the 51 point Sub talent, however I feel this build is much weaker than the traditional Shadowstep build that we see used in high-end play.
18/0/43 – Cookie Cutter Shadowstep gets a bit more flexibility with several key talents being reduced to 3 points instead of 5, letting Rogues pick up a few new goodies like the new-and-improved Setup.
Conclusion:
Hopefully this provides a nice summary for all of you who are on the fence about certain talents, or trying to choose a new build for this coming week. I predict that there will be significant changes to each tree when Wrath hits, so I want to stress the importance of experimentation. You have approximately one month until we see Northrend, and I suggest trying out different builds and exploring all the new talents available. The arena season ends Tuesday, so there's no pressure to maintain a specific rating. Many guilds have paused PvE activity until November. So take this opportunity to try out the new trees: you might just find yourself attached to a spec you had never even thought to give the time of day!
Check in this Wednesday as I will have a few notes from my trip to Blizzcon and an in-depth analysis of Shadow Dance.
Filed under: Rogue, Patches, PvP, Raiding, Talents, Buffs, (Rogue) Encrypted Text






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
mike Oct 13th 2008 11:10AM
"it can be hard to see the forest for the trees."
Through the trees man.. through the trees. L2Make Sense.
JK.. nice write-up thanks.
Farrell Oct 13th 2008 11:16AM
actually, it is "for the trees"
However, the correct idiom is "Can't see the woods for the trees." but his version is still valid.
MechChef Oct 13th 2008 11:13AM
As an old Unreal Tournament player, am I the only one who hears the corresponding sound effect when they read the phrase, "Killing Spree!" ?
Unstoppable!
Raaj Oct 13th 2008 12:42PM
All I hear is, "HOLY SHIT!"
evankimori Oct 13th 2008 9:04PM
Look for the 'Comix' mod. You can actually GET that effect while playing on your Rogue.
I love it. :D
mydwych Nov 6th 2008 4:20AM
Er, Cloak of Shadows nerf anyone? CD up from 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds?
Or is that not relevant?
zappo Oct 13th 2008 11:18AM
I always came away with 51/8/2 (http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efoeMoiboIuVo0xcZ0b)
Since precision gives you hit AND chance to poison, it's too good to pass up for pve. Opportunity gets too much mileage out of 2 points, so I put 2 in there. Will be hard to say without extensive testing though.
xenothaulus Oct 13th 2008 12:02PM
Actually for 51/5/5, Vulajin's spreadsheet is showing 5/5 DW, 3/5 RS 2/2 Opp as higher than the 3/5 DW 5/5 RS variant, but only by about 20 dps. Either way, you're going to fill them both out on your way to 80, so I guess it's not terribly important at this point, unless you get all ^_^ about min/maxing.
I've spent the last 3 hours trying to figure out what I want to do after tomorrow given the gear that's available to me. I just got http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=34606 yesterday, and I was hoping I'd be able to use it; 51/5/5 beats 5/51/5 by 10 whole points for me! (Yeah, I know :P) Furthermore, the next upgrade I'd planned was the http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=34927but for 5 more badges I can get http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?item=34894 which is a much bigger dps increase for Mut build than the tunic would be for CSwords.
The real deal sealer for me is that I've been using these same damn swords for about a year; it's time for a change!
Mydwych Oct 13th 2008 11:19AM
Erm, didn't you think the Cloak of Shadows nerf was worth mentioning? The cooldown's up from 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds!
Mydwych Oct 13th 2008 11:27AM
Oh, wait, the article's about Talents. I get it.
/facepalm
Naix Oct 13th 2008 11:30AM
Return of the dagger Rogue!
Hudders Oct 13th 2008 11:32AM
I'm surprised you didn't mention the mutilate buff of not being positional.
Rochmoninoff Oct 13th 2008 11:43AM
I know that the throwing spec isn't competitive with the other talents around it.
However, I'm pretty sure this article (and several other postings I've read are incorrect):
PVP gloves are losing their interrupt.
(Unless Bliz decided to reverse themselves again - and I'm pretty sure they didn't).
madsushi Oct 13th 2008 12:06PM
They are losing the interrupt - but only at 80. I tailored this article for the level 70 player who will still have interrupts, I will cover level 80 equivs when the time is right. :)
Khorre Oct 13th 2008 11:49AM
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0ef0exoVboIzAo0hZxb
Is almost certainly to be the level 70 mutilate spec of choice.
Starstrike Oct 13th 2008 11:53AM
dont think I agree with his stance on the combat tree. It does get quite a few increase damage abilities but honestly there is nothing wrong with that, it also still has AR, Blade Flurry, and now Killing Spree.
Also, combat hasn't been the premier pvp build for as long as I can remember. It would be like tryin to be angry that prot warriors are not the top dpsers in a bg.
however, if you do decide to go deep combat and do some pvp, it might be a good idea to get throwing specialization. You wont have those pvp gloves forever and it would still allow you to have the same effect and with a longer range at that.
I will agree that I am not too happy with shadow dance at the moment simply because it requires that my stealth skills be viewable at all times. Not to mention that all of my usual binds are taken up already by other skills. I will try it again after Blizz changes that (which is what I read that they are doing).
Also, if you beleive blade turning will be very effective, I would beleive that walay would be higher as well. Along with shadow dance, that could ensure that someone takes the hit and ensure thier death.
as for shadowstep being nerfed, it is probably better that you either vanish of hit CoS if you are rooted anyway, as shadowstep doesnt remove the effect. If you could kill the target in one more hit, might as well use deadly throw and not use the 30s cooldown on Shadowstep until after the immob wears off, otherwise, it could just be a waste.
I am a bit torn on filthy tricks myself, I only would really take it for the reduced prep CD but you could put those points in something else. I guess I dont use prep too often so I could skip it, however, takin it down by 5 mins would be very useful (better to have it when you need it rather than need it and not have it).
Based on what I read, this guy seems in love with assassination and mut whether he knows it or not. My summation of the trees is Assassination is awesome and very effective in pvp and pve, though combat would probably still outdo them in a raid. combat is (to me) still not the best spec for pvp, but if you do it, consider throwing specialization (people love to run away) and take killing spree. It does a good amount of damage quickly and makes you hard to follow so you cant get hit back. Finally, even though sub was my favorite, it needs a UI fix on shadow dance, but I see it as more useful in raids now with filthy tricks, slaugher from the shadows, and shadow dance. The hemo debuff on targets is always good in the end and walay is a good pvp talent.
dirtydeeds Oct 13th 2008 12:01PM
http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?talent=f0efke0sVrocdZ0xZgbo0h
43/5/13. I'm actually going to try this for leveling 70-80. I call it the "sneaky little bastard" build. Chase described this kind of build as a pvp build, but I think it will be fun for leveling. I really wanted the improved stealth from subtlety because it really stinks when your cover is blown while questing. The other thing I like about this build is it brings a lot of improved armor penetration (expose armor, serrated blaes) and improved bleeds (blood spatter, serrated blades). Also, with the deadly brew talent, I will dw instant poison for burst damage and be able to kite mobs when they get the crippling poison on them. This still gives the 50% dmg increase to mutilate. Is this the optimal pure dps build? no. Will it be the most efficient? probably not. But I've been combat swords for so long and I'm tired of being a fury warrior in leather armor. I want to have fun while leveling, being a sneaky, sapping, armor penetrating, kiting, bleeding little bastard rogue.
Starstrike Oct 13th 2008 12:16PM
I can't seem to make a single build that doesnt have improved stealth and speed. I just find it too useful haha. It usually ends up like 20/0/41 or 0/45/16 (not exactly but the point is I'm always somewhere in sub).
Dez Oct 13th 2008 12:01PM
"Erm, didn't you think the Cloak of Shadows nerf was worth mentioning? The cooldown's up from 1 minute to 1 minute 30 seconds!"
And there's also a talent that reduces the cooldown of CoS, so really no reason to whine.
Now I'm wondering why you rated Filthy tricks as (3). 5 mins less cooldown on the ability that renews all our cooldowns, that's not epic? I don't see how it's useful at all for PvE though, yet you rated it (4) there. : O
madsushi Oct 13th 2008 12:09PM
Tricks of the Trade being reduced to a 20s cooldown is pretty nice for PvE. Throw it on another rogue when he has Adrenaline Rush/BF/Bloodlust and he'll return the favor. It's a 6 second boost of 15% for anyone in your raid, every 20 seconds.
I find that waiting 5 minutes for a cooldown is uneffective except for in the longest of PvP fights, and that while it rocks for world PvP, it is still 5 minutes of waiting on our reduced cooldowns. Remember, nearly all of our cooldowns are dropped from 5 minutes to 3 minutes!