Encrypted Text: Trunks of the Trees, Subtlety
Every Wednesday, Chase Christian of Encrypted Text invites you to enter the world of shadows, as we explore the secrets and mechanics of the Rogue class. This week, we finish a discussion of 51 point talents. We'll be covering Shadow Dance, the final talent in Subtlety.With the nefarious Patch Tuesday behind us, we now have available to us a plethora of new talents. Other classes received their 51 point talent trees as well, and balance is but a faint whisper of what it once was. I killed a Warrior earlier tonight in a full stunlock, and I saw a Retribution Paladin throw a Holy Light for over 7,000.
What sets Rogues apart is the true uniqueness of the new abilities. They are very different from anything we have ever seen before, and this can cause confusion and makes them harder to evaluate in terms of usefulness. I have been able to test Shadow Dance first hand, find my full report after the cut.
Shadow Dance, how I wish thee were how I once knew you. This talent was drastically rebalanced from essentially 4 consecutive Vanishes to 4 consecutive openers. While any and every Rogue can see that 4 Vanishes was the more powerful version, it looks like we're stuck with the current opener flavor. In addition, since the Rogue will no longer Vanish, your target will almost ALWAYS be in combat (any smart target will put themselves in combat when fighting a Rogue), so I would write off the ability to Sap completely. It does however add the ability to use the recently buffed Premeditation during the Dance, which is another buff to the previously neglected 31 pt Sub talent.
With Ambush being 45 energy, Cheap Shot being 40 energy, and Garrote costing 30 energy (assuming you picked up Dirty Deeds and Slaughter From The Shadows) using the 4-5 possible openers would cost a ton of energy. If somehow you had 5 targets to Garrote all within 2 seconds of each other, you would need 50 energy going into the Shadow Dance and you would leave it with 0 energy. If you wanted to Ambush 5 times, it would cost 225 energy, making it literally impossible to pull off considering Rogues can only have 120 energy at a maximum and with the removal of energy ticks it would be impossible to "time", as you will only gain 100 energy during the duration of the Shadow Dance.
The reason that most Rogues give me when I ask them about Shadow Dance is easily summed up: "5 Improved Ambushes bro!" With a fairly geared Rogue capable of getting Ambush to a nearly 90% critical strike chance, and the ability to use Ambush 3 times in 3 seconds (the first before Shadow Dance, then two immediately after), that could add up to some serious damage. I have seen my own Ambushes crit for well over 3k against cloth-wearing targets. 3 Ambushes in a row could put over 9,000 damage into a Mage!
Attempting to use the full 10 second Shadow Dance duration is very difficult. A 5 Ambush combo over 10 seconds (hard to do considering that targets move, though Waylay helps slightly) that requires you to start with full energy and leave you completely energy bankrupt doesn't sound like a great use of energy or time to me.
It can be useful in PvE, where enemies typically don't team up on the player. In PvP however, during the Shadow Dance duration there is plenty of time to heal up your target, which makes the extended burst capability almost nonexistent. The 2 second cooldown on abilities means all healers could cast a quick heal in between ambushes, or even CC you for the duration. In addition, if you try to spread your Shadow Dance across multiple targets, you will be losing your combo points on the previous targets. I did discover that it basically negates the Hunter's spell Flare and the Druid's Faerie Fire which would previously stop us from even Vanishing, so it does help us against those classes.
The only possible viability of all 5 openers that I see is to either: A) Cheap Shot an entire group, though not all at the same time. If you caught a group of 3-4 players or mobs clumped together, you could Cheap Shot each of them, providing a huge amount of CC in a very short time, allowing your team to coordinate cooldowns to shift momentum in a fight very quickly. If each of the Cheap Shots lasted full duration, it would be 20 seconds of stuns applied in just 10 seconds. However, you are then left completely out of energy in the center of the enemy group: not a place that a Rogue should find themselves.
Option B would be a very controlled stunlock against a single target. However, without the Vanish component, you are very vulnerable to being crowd controlled for the duration of your Shadow Dance. Using Shadow Dance can extend a stunlock (especially against casters) for quite some time, and is one of the key draws of the talent. The ability to use Garrote to silence is very effective since Cheap Shot will be on diminishing returns very quickly if used more than once.
I will say that in its current form, I am very disappointed with Blizzard's attempt at a 51 pt Subtlety talent. The previous iteration provided extreme defensive and offensive options, and really would've added some finesse to the deep Sub Rogue's lineup. It was a very classy talent, and now it is simply reduced to an Ambush spam for big crits and instant gibs. Against highly resilient targets with healers to back them up, I don't forsee the return of the pre-TBC Ambush Rogue two-shotting people outside of BRD. Blizzard has taken such great strides to avoid that style of gameplay, and it is time for Rogues to let go of the dream of returning to our glory days of being completely unstoppable.
Dueling outside of Orgrimmar tonight, everyone trying out their new talents, taught me that true balance is entering a fight without assurance of victory. I have dueled countless Gladiator-quality Warriors, and it was nearly impossible to defeat one as Shadowstep. They can turtle with their shield up and I get trashed every time. But now, with Dismantle, I actually have a fighting chance of taking down a Tauren in plate. I entered every duel with the knowledge that I could easily be defeated: I, with my new spec; them, with their new spec. It was Russian roulette in Durotar, and it felt good to know that I could die at any time. I feel the true victory is adapting, reacting, and ultimately surpassing your opponent in a give-and-take of cooldowns and abilities; not catching a Mage drinking and Ambushing 3 times while they curse themselves for wearing PvE gear outside of town.
Filed under: (Rogue) Encrypted Text, Rogue, Patches, Tips, Talents






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Louis Oct 15th 2008 11:14AM
Rogues are crazy now!
I saw a Rogue and a Pally take out a Fel Reaver by themselves yesterday! This guys did like 104K damage in less than 2 min.
It was insane.
Tinwhisker Oct 15th 2008 11:29AM
That's less than 500 DPS from each of them. A rogue in kara level gear pre-3.0 could easily manage that without buffs.
If it was just the pally healing, that's less than 1K DPS from the rogue which isn't impressive either.
xin Oct 15th 2008 11:37AM
104k dmg over 2 mins? that is some crappy dps lol
that's about 866 dps for the both of combined!
a single well geared warrior can do that himself lol
Louis Oct 15th 2008 11:41AM
Well it was probably faster than 2 min but still haven't seen anyone take our a Fel Reaver pretty much by himself.
I also kept messing with the Paladin while he was healing too. HoJ and the like.
Taenwyn Oct 15th 2008 3:29PM
Fel Reavers have been soloable by patient Holy/Prot paladins for a while, pre-patch. Very patient.
Kody Oct 15th 2008 11:23AM
I'm currently spec'd into Shadow Dance but to be honest, I haven't found a good use for it.
Wish we could get the vanish ability back :(
Laynne Oct 15th 2008 11:36AM
Me too. I don't like shadow dance at all. Seems like for a 51 point talent, it should at least be useful.
MikomIko Oct 15th 2008 11:27AM
>and I saw a Retribution Paladin throw a Holy Light for over 7,000.
It's almost over NINE THOUSAAAAAAAANDS!
Joseph Oct 15th 2008 11:49AM
I disagree with the shadow dance claim. Use it as a sequence for control 1v1. SD,CS,Gar,Amb, Dismantale, then warm up for the kidney shot. Use some energy buffs from cooking (there is one that restores your energy...some kind of tea.) I think it would be cooler to enter and leave stealth...but...I still think its a neat skill. Last time I speced to combat from subtlety...I hated it. I might like it now...but subtlety has many unforseen tricks. Just gotta use your macros. I was getting my arse handed to me by a hunter, because i couldnt get close to him. If you shadowstep, then enter sd...or vice versa...you can stop a hunter from running circles around you. I dunno...I think this article only focused on the Skill...rather than the whole picture. My opinion only.
zappo Oct 15th 2008 12:16PM
Thistle tea gives you 100 energy at level 40 and diminishes 2 energy per level thereafter. At level 70 you get 40 energy back so I don't think you're going to get enough millage out of that to make up for the energy required.
Personally I'd probably go for a shadow step / seal fate build and skip the 51.
Charles Oct 15th 2008 12:01PM
I agree. I do not like the talent either.
Avoid it and spec for vigor instead!
Saelorn Oct 15th 2008 12:08PM
Shadow Dance seems fairly useless as a solo ability, since you can only ambush something once before it starts looking at you (thus making it impossible to get behind without needing a gouge or some other stun, which just eats massive energy).
Three ambushes should finish off any normal solo mob, in theory.
Worcester Oct 15th 2008 2:30PM
I actually did pretty well with a castsequence macro... Shadow Dance, Cheap Shot, Ambush, Rupture, Cheapshot, Ambush, Rupture. This is basically an out-of-stealth opener, of course, for those times when you're caught off guard.
The CS keeps the mob locked down and gives you the combo points you need for the Ruptures. I need to work on the energy timing a bit, but with the built in 2 second cooldowns and the continuous energy regeneration, I didn't do too badly against the mobs on QD. I was able to take them down much faster than ever before.
Now that Pally... HE was a problem!
Shade Oct 15th 2008 12:21PM
In using Shadow Dance I love the CC utility it gives, I have not been a big fan of daggers in PvP. So I just enjoy keeping the enemy stun locked during a normal SnD Kidney Shot combo. I was taking down Warriors and Ret pallys like they were nothing. Mmmmmm
Joseph Oct 15th 2008 12:36PM
Another lover of the subt tree I see. I am not alone!
Nick S Oct 15th 2008 12:44PM
It's possible now for Rogues specced 51 points into Sub to stunlock people through death who previously would have gotten away.
My prediction is that 51-point Sub is going to be the favorite spec of gankers, and less popular with Arena players and the like.
Shade Oct 15th 2008 12:49PM
I think it can be great in 2v2's Rogue+another DPS. With the added CC Shadow Dance provides you will have more than enough time to keep the healer stunlocked and kill them.
Lemons Oct 15th 2008 3:20PM
Yup, I play 2s with a mage (worst comp ever i kno but we are irl friends and it's really fun) and shadowdance will definitely help us stop those pesky pillar humpers from getting away. Also with honor amoung thieves (HaT as it's commonly known, lol) I'll be getting more combo points than tony hawk, so I think rogue/mage will end up being a pretty good combo.
Also as anyone tried an eviscerate or expose armor in the middle of shadow dance to proc relentless strikes??? That might give you some more energy to work with, and you could possibly get in another attack. Just a thought.
vlad Oct 15th 2008 12:47PM
why all the love for sub chase?
your last article "Encrypted Text: Trunks of the Trees, Assassination and Combat" was ok but sub recieved more screen space than assas and combat combined. also no spec previews and analysis for combat and assas like you did for sub.
i look foward to a more thorough article about the 2 trees you neglected.
MechChef Oct 15th 2008 12:52PM
Soooo, the impression I'm getting is rock can't always beat scissors. Excellent.