Ask WoW Insider: Loot rolls and seasonal boss summons
by Mike Schramm 
Oct 20th 2008 at 5:00PM
Time once again to put a question to you, dear readers, and see what you have to say about a current issue in the World of Warcraft. This time around, Rylia has a question about loot ethics with seasonal bosses -- everyone and their guildie is taking down the Headless Horseman (making the Scarlet Graveyard an actual destination, strangely), and Rylia wants to know what the policy is when an item drops:What's your group loot policy for seasonal bosses? (a) Use the usual in-game loot roller; everyone roll Need on the rare items (mounts, small pets, etc.) (b) Whoever summons the boss for that particular attempt gets the rare item drop from that attempt. The logic behind (b) is that it prevents people who've used up their daily summons from getting more than one chance per day (and thus making their groupmates get less than one chance per day). If someone who didn't have a summon in your seasonal group wins a rare roll, do you think that's a ninja?
Rylia
Personally, I think all the summons should get settled before you enter the instance -- if you invite someone in without a summon (for example, because they're a tank, and you just need them rather than waiting for a tank with a summon), they're a part of the group after that and have as much chance as anyone else to win a roll. And yes, if an item drops that someone can use, it should be a Need roll. So if that mount drops, everyone's got a chance to win it. That's just me, though -- I can see the point about someone without a summon taking loot from people who entered with a summon.
Though I have no idea what to do if a mount and pet drops on the same run -- would the person who won one not get a chance on the second? What think you, readers, both of general loot rules on season bosses and of Rylia's summon policy?
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Events, Ask WoW Insider, Bosses, NPCs
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
SpaceDog Oct 20th 2008 5:06PM
I think everyone should just roll need on it, providing they actually want it. I don't see the point in adding any stipulations.
It gets a bit complicated otherwise.
Jane Gray Oct 20th 2008 5:52PM
What annoys me is people who think that its ok to mention that they really want the achievement, ask everyone to pass for the pet, and then QQ when people dont. This was in a pug.
I'd love to have the mount on my warlock, but I'm not selfish enough to think that strangers should pass it to me just because I want it.
stillsong Oct 20th 2008 6:32PM
When I am in a group, any group, I prefer these loot rules and they are the ones my guild uses. For armor and weapons: Roll if you need it for your current spec and it is an upgrade. Everybody else passes except the enchanter, who rolls greed in case it needs to be DEed. For things like mounts and pets everybody who wants it rolls need. Everybody in the group is treated equally because everybody in the group has worked equally to get that loot to drop. I agree with an earlier poster that if you put more caveats on the roll than this is gets complex and I also think it becomes unfair.
I dont agree with the rule that you can only roll on the drops on your turn at starting the quest because that drop may be completely useless to you and very useful to someone else.
I do think its good manners that if I win an armor or weapon roll and the next thing that drops is also good for me but someone else also needs it that I pass. Otherwise I think I am being greedy. I know not everybody thinks this way, and its not a loot rule in my guild, just a personal one. This doesnt apply though on mounts and pets and other novelty items.
As a side note; For crafting patterns, If its a non guild run all people who want the pattern roll need. if its a guild run, the guild crafter gets first dibs, after that the person most able use it rolls need.
Wicked Oct 20th 2008 11:10PM
Always best to go with NEED EVERYTHING.
Simply because if you can't loot something, the game won't show it to you anyway.
If everyone agrees to greed on the rares (pets, mounts, etc) and the last person decides to ninja it...everyone loses out.
Hard to Ninja something when everyone needs on it in the first place.
Also, if you can't wait for a tank, healer, whatever that can summon to be available and you take one without, they have as much right to loot as you do.
Xandrence Oct 21st 2008 10:25AM
I really want the HH Mount so I have been running this one as often as I can. I'm an Arms Warrior, but Tank him since Tanks & Healers are harder to come by usually than DPS, so I can get into groups even after I use my Daily Summon. I always reply to the LF Tank request by first stating that I have used my summon, and then once I'm added to the group I repeat again for the whole party to hear just incase it was not relayed by the leader. At this time I feel it's in their hands to relay any stipulations that they have since I do not have a summon. I would not be angry if they asked me not to roll on certain things, but may or may not choose to go depending on the situation.
However, with that said...So far all of the times I've gone after already using my summon, I have chosen not to roll on several things that the other people that still had their summons could use or wanted.
That's just the way I choose to play the game. I've seen some really generous people, and I've seen some that will roll on something that they cannot even equip, or have absolutely no need for. In some cases it's people just being greedy, and in some cases it has been people not realizing that the item is no good for them.
Oh, and there is one other situation. The people that "oops, I forgot, I must of used my summon already today"...and they don't tell you this until 3 or 4 others have already gone ahead of them. I'm sure in some rare cases it was an honest mistake, but I'd have to guess most of the time they are just trying to pull a fast one. That's almost as bad as being a Need/Greed ninja if you ask me.
johnnyc Oct 20th 2008 5:07PM
Option (a) -- Everyone gets a chance at the items, regardless of whether or not they were able to summon on that run. Assuming each person did their part in the battle, they all get a chance at the loot. This has worked just fine the last few days for me and my guildmates.
jurandr Oct 20th 2008 5:08PM
If it's vanity, need roll. If it's a ring, sword, or helm, and you can a) use it, and b) it's an upgrade, then need roll. That whole pass then /roll ritual is just @#$% in my opinion and only provides opportunity for ninjas.
Zakk Oct 20th 2008 10:58PM
Agreed. Everyone in my guild likes the pass-then-roll method, and I just see absolutely no reason for it. It makes more confusion, ninjas, and misunderstanding possible.
Keith Nov 6th 2008 7:04PM
I was in a group last night and the group leader told us we were going to pass on everything then "talk" it over. A couple of people in the group said that was ok with them, another didn't say anything, and I told him that wasn't a good idea because it gave rise to opportunity for ninjas to roll on the mount, pet or whatever someone else might want. He said he was the farthest thing from a ninja and loled at me. Nothing good dropped anyway, so we mostly ended up passing, but I thought it was either a blatant attempt to con us into passing for him, he was way too trusting of other people, or some other reason I' rather not mention.
Dr00d Oct 21st 2008 9:22AM
My server uses the pass and /roll method.... driving me nuts!!!.... Good advice.... avoid terenas EU server... ^^
D.O.T. Oct 21st 2008 9:50AM
Because sometimes people feel rushed and need to think about a loot item before taking it. If you're in a group of friends this shouldn't be a concern as they won't ninja an item on you (Especially if you can walk over to their house and yell at them - which I can do with my friends ^_^).
If you're in a pug group, it's usually best to clear the rules out first so that no one makes a mistake. In pugs, it's just best to roll need or greed unless you set ground rules first.
I also think this stems from raiding days where people would greedily roll for an item that was an upgrade for someone else. Guild leaders would try to curb that and make sure people who actually got the most out of it got the item first.
There's a lot of people who don't care about other players and just want the item for themselves. While it's not wrong to want to improve your character, it's annoying when running a raid or a run to have someone take something that's more an upgrade for someone else - and which would help that player more - because they just wanted it. Furthermore, could you imagine someone running on an alt after they geared up a main and taking that upgrade for their alt over someone running a main character? Not right either... but a lot of players don't care.
It's carry over from that.
FlashBIOS Oct 20th 2008 5:12PM
As someone who just DID get the mount I can tell you that I will not be rolling on the pet for the guild runs, and probably even for any pick-up runs I do (I'm a tank, I get asked a lot). Even though I fancy myself a pet collector.
However this is a personal choice. I would not begrudge someone for ever rolling on both, and I don't feel my guild would hold it against me either (after the prerequisite teasing has passed of course). I got what I wanted most, and it is very rare. I want the "joy" of cool drops to be spread around. Silly? Maybe, but that's what I'm doing.
hold up Oct 20th 2008 5:14PM
Normally you greed if you want it for fun, need if you need it for main spec and when dealing with seasonal stuff you should almost never pass unless your excluded because you already have the item. If you really 'need' an item you might want to check with whoever is in your group. I had someone Need the helm when there was a Ret Pally in the group that could have used it as an upgrade, only because they 'Needed' it for the achievement where you have to get the squashling and the helm. Luckily the helm dropped the next day for the pally and he won.
It's too bad they didnt make different helms out of different materials. The stats on that thing are nice, especially with 3 sockets.
Worcester Oct 20th 2008 8:09PM
Actually, they did make two versions. The Plate helm doesn't actually count towards the Achievement (I know this because I have it, oddly). Only the Cloth "vanity" helm counts, and it has no stats at all.
I'm sure they did this just to avoid the problem you're describing, where someone might ninja a useful item just for the Achievement. Happily, that's not the case so far!
Good luck with all your rolls!
jbodar Oct 20th 2008 8:07PM
People who would roll Need solely for an Achievement -- to the detriment of their fellow players -- should be publicly humiliated and never allowed into another group again. E-peenery of this magnitude should not be tolerated.
Glad the pally got his drop in the end though.
Balius Oct 21st 2008 2:26AM
The helm for the achievement is pure vanity. It's cloth, and blue quality, and looks like a pumpkin. Nobody "needs" it for any reason other than the achievement.
Alkaios Oct 20th 2008 5:15PM
I prefer the first option, because I won't need to spend two weeks to get all the achievements. I did every Hallow's End achievement but the mask achievement in two days using this "strategy" (luck was obviously involved).
This is also how I worked Brewfest, repeated runs using my own daily, and after that, mooching off other people's dailies. Your % is FAR greater using this method. Civility goes out the door when you log on, I don't see why I should pass on loot from a holiday boss that I contributed to killing, especially with my holy paladin.
Just my two cents.
Dood Oct 20th 2008 5:27PM
If your groups knows you are mooching and accept that then by all means roll with it.
If you go in pretending you have a summon and drop that little tidbit that you are mooching at the end then you're just a dick.
peagle Oct 20th 2008 6:17PM
"Civility goes out the door when you log on"
You sound fun to be around.
Vendrill Oct 21st 2008 3:34AM
"Civility goes out the door when you log on"
I'm thinking of a word that begins with "A" and ends with "sshole".
/smack