Patch 5.3 interview with Ghostcrawler
Mystery of the Unborn Val'kyr
The latest patch 5.3 news
All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsAsk WoW Insider: Loot rolls and seasonal boss summons
by Mike Schramm 
Oct 20th 2008 at 5:00PM
Time once again to put a question to you, dear readers, and see what you have to say about a current issue in the World of Warcraft. This time around, Rylia has a question about loot ethics with seasonal bosses -- everyone and their guildie is taking down the Headless Horseman (making the Scarlet Graveyard an actual destination, strangely), and Rylia wants to know what the policy is when an item drops:What's your group loot policy for seasonal bosses? (a) Use the usual in-game loot roller; everyone roll Need on the rare items (mounts, small pets, etc.) (b) Whoever summons the boss for that particular attempt gets the rare item drop from that attempt. The logic behind (b) is that it prevents people who've used up their daily summons from getting more than one chance per day (and thus making their groupmates get less than one chance per day). If someone who didn't have a summon in your seasonal group wins a rare roll, do you think that's a ninja?
Rylia
Personally, I think all the summons should get settled before you enter the instance -- if you invite someone in without a summon (for example, because they're a tank, and you just need them rather than waiting for a tank with a summon), they're a part of the group after that and have as much chance as anyone else to win a roll. And yes, if an item drops that someone can use, it should be a Need roll. So if that mount drops, everyone's got a chance to win it. That's just me, though -- I can see the point about someone without a summon taking loot from people who entered with a summon.
Though I have no idea what to do if a mount and pet drops on the same run -- would the person who won one not get a chance on the second? What think you, readers, both of general loot rules on season bosses and of Rylia's summon policy?
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Events, Ask WoW Insider, Bosses, NPCs
Reader Comments (Page 3 of 4)
Yenivaz Oct 20th 2008 6:08PM
This is why my fiancé and myself choose to multibox. We don’t have to worry about people doing the wrong thing or QQing because someone else wants the same item as they do. Or people going AFK because they can’t play for more then 5 minutes without needing a smoke etc.
We both dual box with an alt rotation, and there is only ever 1 main in the instance at a time, so priority goes to the main, then extras just filter down.
We are yet to see the mount, but the pet and everything else has dropped so far.
Adamanthis Oct 20th 2008 6:15PM
I think once someone is in the group, they generally should get a roll, unless the specifically agreed not to. I don't join groups unless everyone has a summons, and many groups I have been in confirm this by getting everyone to pick up the daily from the pumpkin.
As for Need/Greed rolling, I dislike groups that say to use Greed for items that you want. Greed is for items that are going to be DE'ed or vendored. When a rare pet or mount drops, people that don't have any interest in it will roll Greed for the bit of gold it's worth.
Intruis Oct 20th 2008 6:30PM
Personally? I believe that if you want a seasonal item, you should Need roll it. Period. Everyone wants the mount, everyone wants the permanent head-piece, and everyone wants the Squashling. Two of them are Achievement rewards. Why should someone be penalized for getting the mount just because they got lucky on the roll? I've been in 2 groups that have dropped the mount so far, and I haven't gotten it a single time. One of those times, the guy who got the mount also got the Squashling AND the sword. And none of us cared, because it was all fair chance. He was just the lucky one.
That's my 2 cents on the whole matter.
joho Oct 20th 2008 6:35PM
The rule for all BOP/BOA items, in everything I've run for the past 3 years has been PASS, DISCUSS, /ROLL. Otherwise it's greed or pass. If somebody wins something BOE (or a mat/recipe) you need you discuss and trade. I've only used 'need' twice. You quickly learn to weed out the riffraff who can't conform to this style of group play.
NOV14 Oct 20th 2008 6:42PM
Or, when doing a PUG, you just say "Everyone want mount right?" "Yes." "Okay, everyone roll need if it comes, k?" "Sure, np."
End of story, discussion over. I'm all for discussion of true need when it comes to my guild, but when it comes to some people who just want to run and get on with the rest of their lives? Let's not make it an all day event, please.
DLL Oct 21st 2008 1:31PM
I have to disagree with this. I am of the opinion that if you're going into anything (be it a seasonal boss or a raid-25), you should go in knowing what has the potential to drop and what of that potential you want. It's not like this information is hidden from us; take 2 minutes, go to google or your WoW informational source of choice, look it up, and figure it out.
Then again, I'm the kind of person who expects people to be able to play their classes, too, so I guess I'm a bit weird.
Evi Oct 20th 2008 6:41PM
I've never used special loot rules for seasonal bosses. We always use the same rules we use for everything else. But, I generally only run with people from my guild and we've never had an issue where someone didn't have a summon.
Gimmlette Oct 20th 2008 7:07PM
We ran 19 guild members through HH with 3 groups. As we had more dps than tanks and healers (familiar story, I know), the dps rotated out until everyone had gone. That meant the tank and healer in each group had more chances to roll on things than anyone else. 1) Roll need if it was something you could use. I had several guild members who got rings they could use. 2) Roll greed if it wasn't something you could use but rather something you thought would be cool to have, i.e. the sword. I won the only time the sword dropped. As someone who likes the silly parts of the game, that sword is awesome. 3) If no one actually wanted the item, we greed rolled it just to make the corpse stop sparkling. When you kill him multiple times in a row, you can wind up with a pile of bodies and it's tough to know which corpse is the one you just killed.
Going in, each group was told to need roll the broom, the pet and the horse. Three brooms and several helms dropped but no pet or horse. This worked for us. One group had more rings than people and the plate helm dropped repeatedly for the group with a druid as a tank. Times like that you wish there was a "Loot for Guild Bank" feature. But everyone had fun, saw what was available for loot, and came away happy, which is the bottom line for any event.
DavidC Oct 20th 2008 7:42PM
Two Points:
1) Need if you Need, Greed everything else. Yes, you need the mount! Nuff said.
2) If your foolish enough to bring somebody that doesn't have a summons, then your foolish enough to lose the role to them.
The "summons" is your ticket for a roll on the mount. If you can't summons, then you should not be rolling.
Wait? You think you actually *worked* to kill the HHM? HHM practically falls over dead at your feet when you sneeze, so get-over-yourself ... your not special, you didn't *make* or break the group.
Reality: If you have a good tank, you basically don't need a healer ... at all. if you have a good healer, you don't need a good tank.
HHM is a joke ... so all you *bring* to the party is your summons. If you don't have a summon, you can pound sand regarding the roll ... cause your just not needed.
vine Oct 20th 2008 7:59PM
I disagree: If I get asked to come and heal/tank for a seasonal boss because they can't find anyone else, I have as much right to roll on loot. I'm giving up my time to be there and fill a roll, so I have equal rights to loot. Simple. This happens a lot, the ubiquitous: LF2M tank and healz for HH!
Fluffywumpki of Dethecus Oct 20th 2008 10:15PM
I also disagree... provided the rest of the party knows ahead of time that you don't have the summon. As a DPSer, I tell them upfront i have no summons. If they still let me roll with them for the fight(s), i expect equal chance at the loot. Living on a PvP server, no WAY am I getting through the Horde at SM just to find out I burned ammo for nothing.
vine Oct 20th 2008 7:56PM
In my guild we all pass on loot and chat about it afterwards, decide who can use it, who it's an upgrade for, who wants it more. Very fair. Unless we're speed running something like ZA.
Anytime I'm pugging though, I announce beforehand (numerous times) that I will roll Greed for DE. If you are pugging, roll Need if it's an upgrade, otherwise pass. I can't abide people who roll greed for no reason other than vendor. Those people usually find themselves without a party mid-dungeon.
Heaven on Wheels Oct 20th 2008 9:14PM
My advice is just to stay away from pugs. My guild and I have been running it for ourselves and we have gotten everything we've really wanted. If you keep after it sooner than later all the people that need/want it will have what they want and wont think twice about passing on it to a guildie. Plus after they have what they want there is someone with a daily quest that can be used by the guild for the advancement of the guild.
Osi Oct 20th 2008 9:51PM
Need if you can, pass if you cant. The game server forces you to pass, if you have the loot in your inventory (this is a good thing!). At least on ghostlands, there are too many 5 year olds who roll need, when they should of rolled greed.
So need, or pass...
Jido Oct 28th 2008 8:26PM
What happens in SM stays in SM.
Clifton Oct 22nd 2008 12:24AM
For mounts, pets, and stuff like that I say everyone needs. If a group chooses for everyone to greed(which I have seen) there's a chance someone can ninja. The rule where the person can only roll on their summon is a load of crap. If you're in the group and worked to kill the boss you should have equal rights to the loot. Plus how much work is involved in a summon. Also if you don't have a summon then you should have no right to the loot nor should you be in the group. Cause then you are sponging off people without providing anything for them plus making them have one less summons.
szimm Oct 21st 2008 3:19AM
if you NEED, you NEED
if you DONT, you GREED
if there is an ENCHANTER in your group, and you dont NEED, you PASS
not that hard, is it? o_O
rika13 Oct 21st 2008 8:24AM
i say everyone need
1. the guy who doesnt have a summon is still contributing to the group, after all, what use is a summon if HHM can wtfbbqnasapwn if you try to solo him?
2. yes the person who stays longer has more chances, but read above and realize he is investing more time and giving more chances for others to win things
Jack Oct 21st 2008 4:36AM
Okay.
Being in this EXACT same scenario, just a few hours ago. I can kind of relate to the Author of the article.
I Was asked to come to a HH group on my Main that happens to be a priest. I was asked from a guildie, and when I told him that I didn't have a summon, everyone was okay with it.
The mount dropped and I rolled 98 on it and won it. No one seemed to care. Everyone knew that I didn't have a summon going into the group. The only things I heard in vent were "omg you *Bleep* Gratz".
I Actually felt kind of bad. I told the leader of the group, I felt like I stole their loot because I came into the group with no summon. I was assured it was fine, and that they asked me. not vise versa.
So I'm kind of 50/50 on this. At the same time, I am very happy to have the mount :D its going to look bad ass the rest of the year when n00bs to wow don't know where it comes from. So far Me and my guild have only counted 5 on my server. including mine.
D.O.T. Oct 21st 2008 9:38AM
Well, if you still feel bad, just offer to go back with them tomorrow and offer your summon to them then. That way you have something to give back to them. Another shot.