Solving the holiday boss summon problem
by Mike Schramm 
Oct 22nd 2008 at 6:00PM
We've heard about a lot of problems with the Headless Horseman summon this year already (and Coren Direbrew had issues as well), but Kimberly over on WoW LJ has the worst story I've heard so far -- a group asked her to heal, claimed they all had summons, and then after killing the HH with her summon, ditched her, presumably to find some other sucker with a summon. That's not just scamming someone into taking you along for a round of summons (as we heard about in Guildwatch yesterday), it's actually scamming someone out of the rest of their chances, because, assuming Kimberly is honest for the rest of the day, why would another group take her?So this is clearly a problem. Let's fix it for Blizzard: how can we make sure everyone has five chances a day at summoning the Headless Horseman (one per day per group member) without ripping off people for helping their guildies or friends? Basically, we need a clear way of seeing whether someone has a summon or not -- maybe a debuff that resets at midnight every night, or a changing number of candles on the pedestal based on how many people in the instance can still do the daily quest? Right now, there's no accountability at all, and with droprates the way they are, getting screwed out of another chance at the HH (or even four chances, in the worst cases) can make the difference between having the achievement and not.
Any other good ideas on how to solve this problem and keep players accountable? I'm sure players with less than upright morals have no problem claiming their brother used their summon or lying to steal the summons of others, but it would be a lot more fair for everyone if the possibility for scamming wasn't there at all.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Raiding, Bosses, Mounts
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
alt255 Oct 22nd 2008 6:06PM
With Direbrew you could look at the number of people with the quest. If you moused over it would tell you who has it and who doesnt. If a person said they have it and it didnt show it I would tell them to go first then boot them when they couldnt do it.
madgoat Oct 22nd 2008 6:10PM
^ This is the way to go, tell everyone in your group to pick up the quest and then before someone pulls the first time look at your quest log to make sure you aren't getting shafted.
MisterMoose Oct 22nd 2008 6:30PM
You can still do this here! Everyone picks it up from the pumkin. This confirms they can do it. Then you take turns activating the final part on the dirt mound.
Lemons Oct 22nd 2008 8:35PM
That requires that you and your party be at sm, and when some1 doesn't have a summon you'll have to boot him/her and find another person that does.
I'm more in favor of a debuff that is clearly visible on the player. That way you can see if they've done it or not as soon as they join your party, so you can boot them, and then easily grab another person from the trade channel.
neoimmortal Oct 22nd 2008 9:19PM
RE: Lemons:
Actually with new patch I think you can see who has the quest from anywhere. Well maybe not, I don't remember exactly, but I do remember that you can share with your group members no matter how close or far you are from them. If you pick up the quest, then share it with everyone, it will tell you if they have completed it or not.
Sucks what they did to that healer, I'd be pissed.
Jane Gray Oct 22nd 2008 9:25PM
My favorite was when a hunter hearthed to go to stormwind to pick up his second summons, then at the end of the group didn't want to use it (he wanted to find another full group. after making me sit around and waste soul shards summoning him twice). I was gentle but firm and he used his second summons.
Brady Oct 22nd 2008 6:06PM
I like the idea of a debuff. Besides, it could be a status symbol, too! "You have slain the dreaded Headless Horseman today" (Not that it is much of an impressive feat since he is so easy!)
James Oct 22nd 2008 6:24PM
Debuff sounds perfect!
Great suggestion, i can't think of a better one. I hope that is implemented for future holiday bosses. I was angry enough b4 reading about these scammers....
now im simply disgusted =(
Thanx, Wow Insider for your wonderfull insight on wow.
- James -
meme Oct 22nd 2008 6:08PM
people from argent dawn is warning about arthas in EU realms!!! would the scourge attack begin this weekend??!!
pumpkinmook Oct 22nd 2008 6:08PM
why not multiply the drop rate by 5, and everyone can only loot / kill him once a day?
... would take some of the drama, and repitition out of the holiday.
Reyven Oct 22nd 2008 6:08PM
Easy solution: Make everyone pick up the quest by using the pumpkin before the first person actually summons. Then check the quest log to make sure that all 5 people have the quest.
hold up Oct 22nd 2008 6:29PM
Unfortunately this will not prevent scammers. You can make sure that everyone has the summon, but you can't make sure that everyone will use it.
I've been "scammed" twice by someone who has the summon but just does not use it.
We all went to the horseman and after everyone else had volunteered to start their summon the last guy says "sorry guys, i have to go." and then just left the group. he had the summon, he just chose not to use it while he was in our group.
The problem with the debuff is that it would most likely be applied after the summon, which still allows the person to sit on the summon until he gets a few tries and then leave the group.
Maybe implement a mechanic where all 5 players are needed to summon the boss and then all summons are used simultaneously and the boss respawns 5 times. The only problem with that would be that people with more than one level 70 could not use their alts to give them extra chances at getting the rare drops on their main. Also if you are unable to get 5 you would be out of luck - such as one night where i logged on late and was unable to find a healer so we just 4 manned it with my ret pally off healing.
I've been doing runs separately on my 2 70s because I want the title for both toons, unfortunately it has so far resulted in me having a squashling on my druid and a pumpkin head on my pally. :(
havitech Oct 22nd 2008 6:09PM
The whole idea of having to fight the same boss 5 times a day, for 14 days to maximize your chances is just bad design. On one day alone I repeated the fight about a dozen times, with myself and other players switching theirs alts in and out.
Groups as a whole should get 1 summon, with the loot drop rate adjusted accordingly.* If someone in your group has already been in another group that summoned, then that person has to be replaced before the rest of the members can summon.
*Or, alternatively, have his death spawn 5 pumpkins, each with his normal loot table.
RogueJedi86 Oct 22nd 2008 6:18PM
I like that. It can't be that hard to have the number of pumpkins scale with the number of groupies. Seems like it's been done with other things already. I could see possible problems though, namely on if someone disconnects in the middle of the fight, and come back on 30 minutes later. The loot is long gone, and they didn't get the loot.
Nick S Oct 22nd 2008 6:37PM
Agreed. /vote
Otce Oct 22nd 2008 6:11PM
As Reyven said above, you already can check by having everyone take the quest, and looking in your quest log and making sure there is a number 4 next to the quest, to make sure everyone can summon.
Aghast Oct 22nd 2008 6:16PM
I had a similar experience. I say in trade "lfg HH." I get a tell from another rogue saying can you summon, i say yes, we get the other 3 people we need, all respectable people on the server (definitly people who will keep you from getting into top guilds.) We do our 4 summons, and this rogue says "welp sorry no mounts or pets, better luck next time" Needless to say he does not summon, and we leave. Then i get back to UC, and he is spamming trade "LFM HH MUST HAVE SUMMON" So me and the other people in the group tell everyone he does not have the summon. Then he whispers me asking me if i have a problem with him. He gets a group anyway, rinse and repeat, what an asshole.
Brian Oct 22nd 2008 6:17PM
Grrrr. Look it's an MMO, strangers can be a**holes. Yes it's fantastic when you get nice people but every so often you get a jerk in a game of 10 million people there are bound to be lots of them.
There is a very simple solution to this: don't group with strangers. Make everything in the game soloable. In fact take the game off line and make it single player. Then nobody has to deal with anybody else. Ever.
If you tie people into a group for the 5 summons then you will get some poor kid begin abused by 4 other people and complaining because they couldn't leave the group.
Seriously what do you want? A free ride for everyone? Here's the epic mount the hat and the achievements and a big parade that says you are a winner? Do you really want the kind of mentality where every kid has to go home with a trophy? 'cos in that case I'd like to know where my Ferarri is and my house and the beautiful wife and perfect kids and the computer that never gets virused... You know what? life isn't fair. Get used to it.
No they weren't nice but the internet is full of asshats. Welcome to the world of Warcraft you have earned the achievement [got screwed over in a PUG] now go get the T shirt form J!NX.
Brian Oct 22nd 2008 6:20PM
I'd just like to mention that wasn't aimed at the blogger or the player who got screwed over. It's just an observation on the risks of grouping.
BTW can we have a list of WOW Insider Achievements? :)
James Oct 22nd 2008 6:21PM
Horrible idea... Go play a console game if you want everything to be soloable.
- James -