Having a Shadow Priest wouldn't increase our mana regeneration any, though, since Shadow Priests and Retribution Paladins share the same mana regeneration buff - Replenishment.

With the increase in mana restoring buffs from other classes I don't consider this to be an issue for riads. At least not one which can't/won't be finetuned for in the future.

The mana issue is most definitely what I'm worried about. It's tough to balance because they don't want us to never have to worry about mana, but at the same time with our tiny mana pools if we do have to worry about mana we will run out very quickly.

Am I the only one who is thinking 'Its about dam time!'

Ive been getting 2 shot by paladins since the beta was released, its absurd.

oh well, i'm quite disappointed with these nerfs. I'm prot paladin as main spec, used to spec ret for some relax, however after patch, yes i can burst people a lot(not as much as mages but still:P), however these nerfs aren't really gonna change it too much imo. Seriously, my ret burst is pretty heavy even without seals, and if SoB hits for 500 or 400(which is probably what this patch does), it wont save the game.

I think this hurts holy solo and prot threat way more than ret burst. Devs said they like ret dps in pve, just wanna tone down ret burst, well this seems to me like nerf to sustained dps, holy dmg, prot dmg/threat, but definitely not ret nerf :/ Correct me if i'm wrong, but i fail to see points of such nerfs.

i'm not QQing about it, i don't think nerfing SoV threat by some 20% will make me lose aggro, 'cos in my roughly T5level gear (some prekara,badge,T5,T6) i can keep above sunwell geared dps even while offtanking (about 20% behind SWP tankadin and T6 tankadin with JoL), but these nerfs seem pretty weird to me :/

Paladins don't have a gap closer, snare, ms or kick. Our playstyle is based around hitting you with that stun and then exploding you, burst is our niche. Is that op? perhapes, but if you take the burst away and add no skills to compinsate we're lolret.


If paladins are once again lolret people simply won't play them anymore, I think the pally community has had more then enough and free lvl 50 deathknights are very appealing.

Every buff we've gotten in 3.0 is being removed one by one. Now we're back to relying on Sprititual Attunement for mana, meaning other healers have to give us special attention, thus reducing our desirability in raids.

To those of you who approve of these nerfs: everything here except the Art of War and Righteous Vengeance changes is a PvE nerf, and no one with half a brain ever thought our sustained DPS was OP, at least not at 80. Even GC himself said our PvE DPS is fine, then they turn around and slay us in a whirlwind of nerfs less than 2 weeks after 3.0, despite a "working as intended" at Blizzcon, after over 2 months of beta testing.

They claim they're being surgical. Nerfing every seal, killing our mana regen, AND completely reworking two other talents all in one build is NOT surgical.

They claim they're not nerfing people due to QQs. They hotfix our 51 pt talent 2 days after it goes live, without testing it on beta or PTR first, and after the tree had been extensively tested in beta for over 2 months and claiming the class was reasonably well balanced at 80.

In the process of Blizzard's zealous overnerfing of Ret, Holy has lost badly needed DPS for soloing and Prot has lost badly needed threat gen.

If these new changes go live, every Paladin will have been completely betrayed and lied to by Blizzard & Ghostcrawler. Thanks Blizz!