Ready Check: Kil'jaeden (and friends), post-3.0.2

Kil'jaeden, the Sunwell Plateau end boss, has had a tough time lately. Since the Echoes of Doom patch, plenty of guilds have breezed through Sunwell and many of those have managed to kill him for the first time, signing off TBC raiding with a bang. Congratulations to them!
This is pretty symptomatic of raiding post-3.0.2 in general -- while nothing on the surface has changed drastically, everything's become a whole lot easier, as increased damage output, decreased mob health and relaxing of raid constraints all add up to great effect. Previously complex encounters become almost trivial and previously trivial encounters become hilarious, with a slight twist of nostalgia when remembering how hard they were first time round.
Of course, having a fundamental understanding of the encounters in their originally designed form, and having a raid force which operates through each boss fight like clockwork, both help. While even the sloppiest PuG is steamrolling content now, you're still going to need people in the raid who know how things like Vashj's cores, Kael's weapons and Archimonde's tears work. Which brings us neatly on to how Black Temple and Sunwell have fared since the patch...
Black Temple
Not exactly the serious raider's favourite instance (due to overfarming, mostly), Black Temple is now a lot shorter and -- hopefully -- this'll sweeten it a bit if you have enough enthusiasm to keep farming it before WotLK. The complexity of pretty much every encounter is trivialised with the changes, although that's not to say you can be entirely complacent.
Naj'entus will (probably) still involve a spine throw, and you'll still have to avoid volcanoes on Supremus (as if you did in the first place!). Teron is trivial and most likely killable even if nobody in the raid can do ghosts. Most of the delicate beauty of Bloodboil co-ordination can be thrown out of the window, and the Reliquary of Souls doesn't live long enough to be a threat. Mother Shahraz's strict shadow resistance requirement can be written off, and while the Illidari Council can still be a tricky pull, the length of the fight -- one of its main challenges -- is drastically reduced. Illidan himself will die without a demon phase for most experienced groups, and can be tanked by a druid now, but you'll still probably want two flame tanks for safety.

One of the common themes with all these fights is that the reduced duration means there's a lot less chance for individual mistakes, such as poor reactions to Shahraz's ports, or poor performance at ghosts. Even if you are one of the unlucky few picked by the RNG, you'll probably still pull it off (or your raid will triumph anyway). If you've been struggling with one of these fights because of too many mistakes cascading into a wipe, it's definitely worth going back and seeing if you can kill it now -- you probably will.
Sunwell Plateau
The design of the Sunwell marked a change in direction from Black Temple, ensuring a greater deal of individual responsibility for the raid's welfare -- i.e. if you screwed up in Black Temple only you died, but if you screw up in Sunwell you can wipe the whole raid. As with Black Temple, this is diminished with the changes, but we'd still recommend knowing the fights to some extent before running in and planning to one-shot everything with a PuG.

Kalecgos' portals are still fairly crucial to the encounter; you'll want to make sure your tanks, healers and DPS take portals in mixed groups, though you can change the strategy somewhat. The dragon's health drops fairly fast due to the sheer number of people upstairs at the start, and you need to ensure the demon actually dies in time, so you could assign your best DPSers to go down first regardless of who got ported. It's up to you how you handle it, your old strategy will work just fine, as long as you don't get entirely complacent and forget that tanks in the shadow realm need healing (or similar).
Brutallus still needs to be taunted and the raid needs to not spread Burn, but his health and your DPS means the fight is over so fast it isn't a major problem if people die. Expect to set some juicy new DPS records.
Felmyst seems to be universally dying before her second air phase, and again, is easily killable now if a few people fail to move out of breaths, encapsulates or green beams. Ideally your raid is well experienced at avoiding these fatal spells, and it's almost unfortunate that you can't really assess trialists' performance in this dimension with the fight in its current state. You'll still want to follow the same basic strategy as you did before, to ensure mass dispelling, but as every class can theoretically AoE tank now your protection paladin can finally get a night off.
The Eredar Twins encounter is one where complacency is definitely deadly; there are fewer Conflagrates cast, but that doesn't mean you can blow up the raid! If you don't wipe to conflagrates or the ledge boss, they'll be dead before you can blink.
It's a real shame to see M'uru reduced to a much easier fight; zerging M'uru himself means the blood elf adds can be off-tanked (by one or two tanks, your preference) and the resulting short phase 1 duration allows for one tank to do both sentinels and spawns. Your own version of this might differ, of course, but any way you try to put it, the fight's definitely simplified now. Even if half the raid is unaware of the actual specifics of the encounter, you'll likely still beat it.

And now Kil'jaeden. This is a fight with many complex aspects, and we'd recommend familiarising yourselves with the original version of the encounter before attempting the 3.0.2 version. The change to KJ -- reduced health -- has a lot of knock-on effects, reducing the duration of each phase and thus removing a lot of the danger of the encounter, but there are still basic steps from the original strategy you'll want to take.
For example, although you'll find he only casts Darkness of a Thousand Souls a handful of times -- depending on how fast you kill him -- you still need to know what to do when he does cast it. Meteors will still land, and you'll have to avoid them. The raid still needs to spread out to avoid excessive damage from Fire Bloom and Flame Dart. You will find that the most hectic part of the fight, phase 5, is a lot simpler when it's over so much quicker; also, you can tolerate a lot more personal error than before, so even if a couple of people die to meteors it won't be the end of the world.

As with the other fights in Sunwell, it should be pretty easy to take someone new along and tell them "stand here, when you see a hellfire animation on the ground move there, when you see him casting Darkness move here" without explaining much of the actual fight's mechanics to them. It'd be a shame, of course, to deny people the joy of understanding such a complex encounter, but raiding post-3.0.2 isn't about complexity; it's about zerging content as fast as possible, for levelling gear or simply for the fun of finally having completed endgame.
We'd love to hear more about your post-3.0.2 raiding experiences, so feel free to chip in below! Best of luck to anyone trying these bosses for the first time -- judging by the number of new kills recently, they shouldn't be too difficult for anyone.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding, Bosses, Guides, Ready Check (Raiding)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 1)
Zancorr Oct 25th 2008 7:26PM
I still love raiding post patch. The only thing I don't like is the number of guilds on my server who have since started hating on our guild because we have now killed Sunwell bosses. Don't get me wrong, I know these are way easier encounters, to the point of being laughable. But since my guild started in the raid game late - we only got to see Kalecgos once or twice before the patch. We only killed Illidan the first time the first week of September, and we needed to farm BT/Hyjal a little longer.
Because we have a progression thread on our realm forums, our guild has posted our recent Sunwell kills, along with other guilds still posting their SSC/TK/Hyjal/BT kills. But since ours is Sunwell, I guess it makes us "bads". It does make me a little sad that I will never be able to see the pre-nerfed Sunwell content, but I am still damn proud of my guild for sticking through the nerf and still planning on getting as much loot as possible before the xpac.
You would think since there was only ONE guild to kill KJ before the patch (October 6th was the first time he died on our server) that people would be a little more enthusiastic about actually getting to see the rest of the content. I guess for other guilds clearing through Sunwell now - keep it to yourself? Or just hope that people on your server aren't as full of themselves as they happen to be on mine.
Heilig Oct 25th 2008 7:41PM
Man, you have to admit that it is way easier than it should be now. My guild was in the same position yours was, we managed to kill Kalec just once pre-nerf, and it took us a while. First day of raiding post-patch, we one shot Kalec AND Brut after a 2 hour BT clear. Bt used to take us two NIGHTS, now it takes us two HOURS. We didn't even screenshot a dead Brutallus because it felt like cheating. The major gear check with the insane enrage timer died on our first attempt ever with NINETY seconds left. The next night we 2-shot Felmyst and got really confused on Twins for the rest of the night. But when we came back the enxt day, we one shot Twins and Dropped M'uru in an hour.
Be proud of your accomplishments, yeah, but being able to go from struggling on Kalec to taking KJ to 50% on our very first attempt IN THE SAME WEEK isn't even fun. The nerf was excessive and unnecessary, and I for one don't like it.
Zancorr Oct 25th 2008 7:49PM
I'm not saying that the nerf wasn't too much - I agree it was. But for people to call us 'bad' cause we are still having fun? Or calling us out cause we posted our kills, but not others for posting theirs? Thats all. Yeah, a lot of stuff feels like cheating. We one shot kalecgos, a few attempts on everything else, and now are gonna kill KJ on our next day.
We still have fun though, since the point of raiding (for us at least) is too get together with our friends and beat the crap out of pixels for purple pixels. From what I have seen, the first few raids in Wrath aren't gonna be any harder than the post-nerf Sunwell - so if you aren't having any fun at all, then maybe it's time to move on?
Tcgjarhead Oct 25th 2008 8:43PM
Just because you are having fun doesnt make you "good", or not "bad".
But if you couldnt do it before they nerfed the living sh*t out of it you arent necessarily bad but deffinately not good either. And posting kills when its no longer meaningful is kind of rediculous.
Cy Oct 26th 2008 2:53AM
The people who are competitive raiders just feel the need to point out that you didn't do it "when it was hard" to stroke their epeens.
Fact is, in a couple of weeks even their "hard" accomplishments will mean nothing, as the playing field gets leveled once again. So just have fun doing what you're doing and ignore the whiners.
greyistar Oct 25th 2008 7:28PM
Raiding is lame now.
shumanfu Oct 25th 2008 8:14PM
I guess you guys never got roped into running MC at 70.
Same sh*t.
Get used to it after the Lich King is released.
Zancorr Oct 25th 2008 8:17PM
Yeap.
Flutterby Oct 25th 2008 9:18PM
Considering my guild now kills KJ without one darkness going off, which completely kills the whole rubber band type premise of the fight.. and kills him in less than 4 minutes.. it's more than just a bit irritating. I have no issue with people getting to see boss fights, I myself was unable to see most of the pre-TBC raid content due to a few factors.
But! The fact that my guild's team of alts/friends/pugs have succeeded in clearing Sunwell both weeks since the patch is just more than a bit depressing. There's a big difference between nerfing something to give some of the guilds who have been stuck on this content longer than blizzard was anticipating than nerfing it so badly that it kills the things in these fights that make them challenging or fun.
Anyway.. that's my two cents on the matter.
Pucelle Oct 25th 2008 11:01PM
Less than a month from all this raiding becoming 100% irrelevant, and people can STILL whine about how the great nerf of Q4 '08 wasn't fair.
For the love of God, Montressor! Let people enjoy the **content** in the last big rush up to Wrath, instead of watching you ride in while they grind yet more dailies on the Isle.
- T6 raider
Balasan Oct 26th 2008 3:26AM
WHat he said.
Is it so hard to be happy for others?
Lyraat Oct 25th 2008 11:41PM
Our guild had just downed Teron for the first time the weekend before the patch. Now we one-shot him, blew through RoS and Mother, and are working on Illidari Council. We know downing new bosses is nothing like it was before. Personally, I see our guild as 4/9 BT, not 7/9.
I like the nerf mainly because we'll most likely never come back to these raids and this gives those of us who didn't finish the content a chance to experience what we missed. SSC, TK, BT, Hyjal and Sunwell are gonna be pushed into oblivion, like AQ40, MC, and old Naxx. Might as well enjoy the stroll now. Plus, these last few raids are a good chance to burn through all the leftover raid consumables that I had stored up.
Zancorr Oct 26th 2008 12:59AM
Exactly. I totally agree that my guild is forever 5/5 9/9 - but telling me that we are "bad" cause we are happy with our time in Sunwell just makes me laugh.
tarheelblue24 Oct 26th 2008 1:27AM
I think the nerf was a little too much. Maybe a 15% health decrease. I'm enjoying it cause we started about 3 months too late at the pace we were progessing and farming. When the patch hit we were 4/5 hyjal and 3/9 bt without attempting kael yet, and only 3 hours on vashj. We downed vashj after 3 more hours and kael the same. I will say that vashj still does take a good knowledge of how to get her out of phase 2, which is still a pain until you get some runs in, but after that its cake. Kael took a lot less than vashj for us. Still dont think a pug full of ppl in heroic blues could do it without some raid experience.
BT bosses are a litttle different. We have only been in once since the patch and immediatly went from 3/9 to 6/9 in one evening. Najentus is a joke with all the aoe healing flying around now. Supremus only takes people staying out of volcanoes, which people still can't do for some reason. Akama was and still is a joke. Gorefiend was cake, we killed him with 3 full groups of constructs in the raid so the nerf broke that encounter, which stinks cause most the others still take a little knowledge of how to execute. Bloodboil still takes knowledge and execution but we just saw 3 bloodboil rotations and killed him on the 3rd fel rage. Reliquary pretty much is a power through it fight as long as you get through phase 1 without the ppl tanking dieing.
Overall, it seems you can steamroll through many bosses if your raid has decent experience, but it will still take a couple hours work on some bosses that you still have to execute properly on. 25 man pugs of ppl with little raid experience I dont see steamrolling the content. They can get it by putting in some work, but how many pugs actually hold together long enough to work on something? It still takes a little knowledge and communication with the people you raid with, but it is much easier if you have that.
datt67 Oct 26th 2008 1:45PM
My guild made the decision to carry on with our raid schedule after the patch and it's proved to be a lot of fun. Yeah, the nerfs are the nerfs but as our guild master put it, 'why not go see the content?'. We're proudly a 'casual' guild, but in the best sense - organized, committed, scheduled, but still relaxed enough to have fun. The upshot has been that we just never got through the endgame stuff before the patch/expansion. But why not take a crack at? Those are cool environments and even if the edge is off, it's cool to wander around in them. The hardcore crowd will always have bragging rights - that doesn't mean the rest of us can't enjoy the show.
mobomeku Oct 27th 2008 12:35PM
Like datt67's guild, we've managed to continue our raiding schedule through the patch (we were working on the Twins when the patch hit), and while it is a little sad to see some of the fights nerfed back so hard, we're still accomplishing what we originally set out to do: Get screenshots of Dead Bosses.
When you define your own goals, it doesn't matter what measuring metric anyone else uses.
While I didn't *ask* for the nerf, I'm certainly enjoying it, because, for us, it's the difference between having the time to get *to* Kil'jaeden and having the time to *kill* Kil'jaeden. It was a rough summer of attrition for our guild, as we seemed to lose people to Real Life faster than we could gear-up replacements (losing seven raiding healers over a ten day span was especially hard to recover from), so we fell behind schedule in Sunwell. And even though we expanded our raiding schedule to five nights a week, we were going to be behind schedule for finishing up Sunwell barring the expansion being pushed back. Post-patch, I'm back to enjoying the game and not being stressed out about falling short because of circumstances beyond my control.
Above all, Blizzard is a business, and the nerf was a good business decision:
1) It's reinvigorated a good portion of the player base in the face of increasing market competition and pre-expansion player fatigue.
2) It's exposed a whole strata of the player base to "raiding", giving them the opportunity to see what it's all about and potentially turning "casuals" into "raiders".
3) It gets the maximum use out of already-produced properties.
Do I understand that our M'uru kill might not have cost me as much in consumables as someone who killed him pre-patch? Yes. Does that bother me? No. I still look good in the screenshot.
evankimori Oct 27th 2008 4:31PM
Gotta wonder if Bliz had done this pre-BC and done it to the old-school instances (nerf MC. Lulz) if it would've had the same effect that it did now?
Lucid Oct 27th 2008 4:10PM
Our casual guild has felt the thrill diminished somewhat on these fights, but we all agree that downing a nerfed boss is significantly better then waiting till level 80 and doing it then. Seeing MC for the first time post-BC must be fun for some people, but it simply can't be as fun as it was for 60s.
Plus this content is being obsoleted very soon, why not open it up and let people check it out. Even if you cleared it pre-nerf, you can't be that bummed others got it during a month before it was over. Additionally with so much end-game burnout, its a great idea to keep people interested.
We went from halfway in the tier 5 bracket to entirely cleared in 2 weeks, and working on archimonde with BT planned later. Most fights were one shots. Archimonde has been the only boss that we've had trouble with since the patch.
I'm very happy our guild is getting to see this stuff, so we can all be motivated to get on the ball with raiding at 80. I highly recommend other casual guilds should take the opportunity to blaze this content and get to see the fights, nerfed is better then not at all, especially if you're real late in the game and at kara level now.
Kanuris Nov 9th 2008 11:12AM
Kil'Jaeden is not to be taken lightly, he is still an immensly hard fight to learn to do. That said, have had a lot of fun killing him.