The Light and How to Swing It: Something's gone terribly wrong

The truth is, something's wrong with Retribution. There, I said it. I'm embarrassed to say it because I'm supposed to be celebrating it. I've waited for Retribution to be viable for so long that when the time finally arrives, I'm disgusted at myself for not being happy about it. Well, I'm really happy. But not happy about the fact that very nearly every Paladin is now specced Retribution. I'm certainly not happy about the fact that even undergeared Retribution Paladins are blowing things up in the Battlegrounds left and right. When a Retribution Paladin in blues can burst down a player with over 400 Resilience with some RNG -- and I've seen this happen -- there's something terribly wrong.
The problem
I hate to break it to you Retribution Paladins who suddenly find themselves dominating the Battlegrounds and getting Damage Control within the first five minutes -- you didn't just become good at PvP overnight. Really. When you crush that Season 4 Warrior with your Season 2 mace, it's not (necessarily) because you're awesome. If you suddenly find that other players -- well, other players who aren't Retadins, that is -- turn and run at the sight of you, trust me when I say it's not because of your Crusader's Scaled Shoulders, and certainly isn't your Oathkeeper.
Divine Storm being nerfed to deal Physical damage is a band-aid solution to a bigger issue. I'd prefer that it be Holy damage, but right now Retribution burst is being tuned down for PvP. At least Battleground PvP. In Arenas, a Retribution Paladin is still going to get kited because it's a coordinated PvP environment. And Paladins are still an incredibly kite-susceptible class. In the Battlegrounds, where chaos is the order of the day, a Retadin can wreak havoc because of unmitigated, imbalanced burst. I'm upset because it feels like it doesn't take any skill to play anymore.
Nowadays, when a Retadin tops the Battleground chart for Killing Blows or Damage Done, it's no longer something remarkable. In fact, it's kind of expected and boring. When I file screenshots of good games now, I have to put it in a folder with the asterisk *post Patch 3.0.2 just to remind me that it might not be because I played well but because the spec is simply too good at Level 70. That's the thing -- everything is tuned for Level 80 right now. All the 51-point abilities, in particular, are envisioned for a Level 80 environment.
The same goes for my damage in raids. Before Echoes of Doom, whenever I'd get into the Top 5 it was because I knew I was paying attention to my rotations. The only way I would do well was with a lot of hard work. I would throw Seal of Blood up exactly between my melee swing timer. I took my Haste Potions exactly when Avenging Wrath and Bloodlust Brooch were both up. It felt good because I knew I was working hard and making a point. Now, I'm not so sure. I work just as hard, but I don't know if I'm doing well or it's the spec.
It's like when Michael Schumacher used to win in Formula 1, critics used to accuse him of driving the best car. Or MotoGP's Valentino Rossi when he used to race and win on Honda, prompting him to switch to the unproven Yamaha just to shut his detractors up. I know motor sports probably aren't the best analogy for this, but you know what I mean. I just don't want people to think we're dominating Battlegrounds and topping Recount just because our spec is godly. As Blizzard says -- bring the player not the class, or in this case, spec.
The problematic solution
Of course, Blizzard will bring out the nerf bat. I know it feels like a kneejerk reaction, specially when players run to the forums crying with their tails between their legs. And many of them don't bother to mention that they got wtfpwned while wearing scrub gear. I trust in Blizzard to check their numbers, but the response frightens me. In Beta build 9138, Paladins got nerfed to the ground. And when I say 'to the ground', I mean insanely, ridiculously, soul-crushingly nerfed. The sad thing is, I'm not sure it actually solves the problem.
For one thing, the nerfs are applied across the board, reducing the damage done by all Seals, not just Seal of Command or Blood / of the Martyr. This means that all Paladins of every spec will be affected by the change. Holy Paladins are already hurting on the damage end, and this nerf reduces their damage output even more. Blizzard has been tuning Seal damage downwards for several Beta builds now, and Holy Paladins keep hurting because of it. The Holy spec has been crying out for a bone to be thrown its way with respect to this.
Another problem about reducing Retribution burst is that it doesn't address our old issues in PvP. The only way Retribution kills healers these days is because of sudden burst. In Arenas, this doesn't work as well because there's coordinated mitigation and healing. Reducing Retribution DPS brings damage output to manageable levels but will bring kitability and spell interruption back into question. Hand of Freedom hasn't been un-nerfed ever since the kneejerk reaction from Season 1. I don't care what Blizzard says about this one. The nerf to Blessing of Freedom was as kneejerk as they come, with Paladin representation in Arenas declining sharply in the following three Seasons.
Paladins still don't have a reliable interrupt on an acceptable cooldown. With damage scaled back down, Paladins will again be unable to kill healers just like in The Burning Crusade. While I don't believe that the ability to instagib healers was the solution, nerfing Retribution damage only reveals that Blizzard still hasn't addressed core issues of the class or spec. We're extremely kitable and without any offensive dispels, we have problems with spell interrupts. The best solution is to take 18 points in Protection for Improved Hammer of Justice and the 4-piece bonus from PvP sets. And that's just a band-aid.
Judgements of the Wise was nerfed to a 15% return of base mana from 33%. The good news is, Judgements cost only 5% of base mana. This means that Retribution Paladins will run out of mana at some point, but judicious (pardon the pun) use of Judgements will allow us to stretch our resources. In PvE, this will work out just fine, combined with Replenishment and the occasional potion. In PvP, it becomes a problem against drain mechanics -- another key weakness of the spec that will rear its ugly head once more. We'll see. I have to see it at work in Arenas (where it used to be a problem) before I can actually say whether or not this breaks the talent for PvP.
The only change I really like is the change to Righteous Vengeance, which will apply periodic damage with every Judgement or Divine Storm crit instead of bigger damage up front. The effective DPS is the same, just no longer as bursty. I like it because we get a DoT without being forced to use Seal of Vengance / Corruption. This will be more useful to us in PvP than the burst.
Bust up burst, but address the rest
I actually support Blizzard in their effort to scale down the class. I don't believe it's some conspiracy theory to make Retadins the laughing stocks of the game once again. At this point, I just want the issues that have always plagued the spec -- particularly in PvP, which Blizzard seems to want to fix -- eventually addressed, as well. With no healing debuff or spell interrupt, a Druid's HoT ticking for crazy amounts will render Retribution DPS negligible.
We'll still be kited to hell, with no means to close the gap like an Intercept or Sprint. We're the one melee class without a real snare, and we're the ones with no ranged abilities. Toughness and Pursuit of Justice are not the solutions, either. In Wrath of the Lich King, Death Knights will be pulling things left and right while we will be panting across the Arena floor trying to catch up with our targets. It happened in Arenas during The Burning Crusade, and it'll happen again in Wrath.
Lastly, I wish Blizzard would take a look at Holy DPS. If they're wondering why everybody and his uncle is now a Retribution Paladin, it isn't because players hate healing. It's because Holy is extremely unsatisfying to play offensively. With the nerf to Seals across the board, this frustration will grow even further. Protection Paladins are delirious with their damage now, it shouldn't be a surprise to them that Holy Paladins sometimes want to kill things, too.
Overall, I'm happy with the class. I think Blizzard's done a great job listening to the community so far. Obviously, there's just some more work that needs to be done. As terrible as these nerfs may sound, I don't think these were done without deliberation. If the nerfs actually make it live, we'll all just have to grin and bear it, and always keep our fingers crossed.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, (Paladin) The Light and How to Swing It, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 3 of 8)
Saeverud Oct 25th 2008 10:31PM
I'm more upset over how the nerfs are affecting all three specs. Prot is in a very good place right now. But with the seal nerfs it hurts us a bit. We have the lowest DPS of the tanking class as it is and this nerf just hurts us unnecessarily.
razer9999 Oct 25th 2008 10:32PM
"Overall I'm happy with the class... I don't think these were done without deliberation.." -> are you kidding me? How can you be happy? Blizzard should just scrap the entire Retribution tree and force every paladin to choose between Protection or Holy...I mean at this rate I'm not sure how many current Retadins will stay as Retadins.... I don't even know if I should play as a ret anymore..i might as well respect to be a healbot..at least i'll get into groups....
another thing is with the nerf to Judgment of the wise..do you realize all retadins will need to find armour that stacks +INT in WOTLK? I mean what the hell was the point of making retadins share armour items with warriors (which does not stack an +INT)...in TBC I had to choose between +CRIT/AGILITY or +INT..because frankly it is nearly damn impossible to find items that carried all those stats?
I don't know what everyone else was wearing in TBC as a retadin but there is a problem if I have to gear up in all PVP equipment just to be barely competitive enough to get that DPS spot in a group... (PVP gear gives stamina, strenght,intellect, crit change)...
nerf our only mana regen mechanism and you force us to lower or CRIT chance or our ARMOUR rating and all of the sudden we're no longer going to be competitive for the DPS spot in a group OR in any PVP situation...
what pisses me off is the build increases the damage of all other classes except for paladins....
how come blizzard doesn't nerf mages or rogues? I hate it when I am stunlocked for the entirety of the fight..or when mages stand just far enough but in range to cast 3-4 fireballs to kills us.....
blizzard does not realize that we need to be able to do enough DPS because a)we don't bloody swing our weapons fast like other pure melee dps classes..and unlike other pure melee classes we don't have billion DOTs, stuns etc to help.... our extra damage from our seals and judgement made up for that fact and at least it provided to us that we would be competitive at least against a pure dps class.
look I'm not looking for retadins to be as good or better than pure melee dps classes...I just want to be competitive enough so that I don't have to use BUBBLE+HEARTH to escape all the time...
I would have accepted the nerfs to Divine Storm, Art of War, Righteous Vengeance...but now with the significant reduction to our ONLY DAMAGE MECHANISMS (auto attack doens't count because we don't *ucking cause enough damage) I am beginning to wonder if they really a)tested out on PTR/BETA b)or they just listened to all the other classes that QQ and cried because they can no longer get the free honor kill
if these changes goes live then I think blizzard will have effectively demonstrated (Again) that they hate the paladin class.
Delphionic Oct 25th 2008 10:38PM
I don't think the Judgements of the Wise is that bad to be honest. I use Judgement of the Light and Replenishment seems to keep my mana topped up. However, I agree with the rest of your comment. Gear is especially a problem.
Heilig Oct 25th 2008 10:44PM
"I don't think the Judgements of the Wise is that bad to be honest. I use Judgement of the Light and Replenishment seems to keep my mana topped up"
Judgements of the Wise =/= Judgement of Wisdom
Delphionic Oct 26th 2008 3:44AM
My bad, it's late at night here in the UK. I meant wisdom :P.
Armani Oct 26th 2008 8:52AM
Nerf to JotW?
The question is, Do rogues or warriors have to stop using their abilities after a mid-long fight? Obviously no. So why do we have, at any point, run out of mana as a retadin?
Starie Oct 26th 2008 10:57AM
"The question is, Do rogues or warriors have to stop using their abilities after a mid-long fight? Obviously no. So why do we have, at any point, run out of mana as a retadin?"
Do retadins have to manage rage because it's a quantity that starts at zero, unlike mana, or ration energy use that caps at 100/110, limitations by which (besides ability cooldowns) throttle the use of rogue and warrior abilities? Obviously, no. So why do you assume it's your Blizzard-given right to always have a full mana bar?
Delphionic Oct 25th 2008 10:31PM
when I got high in the DPS charts*
Elderhorn Oct 25th 2008 10:37PM
This nerf to ret is a very nasty one indeed, but that's not what I'm worried about....
My main spec is prot and I'm one of the MTs for our guild (climbing our way through BT pre-2.0) and currently on live, I can usually substitute a damage seal for seal of light or wisdom for the healing or mana return depending on the fight due to the damage I actually get from seals and judgements already being so piss-poor.
Depening on the fight, using seal of corruption (vengeance), my seal+judge damage typically takes up under 10% of my total damage....
With this latest nerf I don't see damage seals being a viable option for prot at all to be perfectly honest.
newg Oct 25th 2008 10:53PM
The nerf to judgements of the wise, has MASSIVE implications on pve DPS.
Early beta testing and theorycrafting done over at elitist jerks (check: http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t17193-paladin_retribution_dps_theorycraft ) shoes that retribution paladins run out of mana at around 2:10 now. our dps cycle is only sustainable for a very short time now with this nerf.
damage coefficients on seals etc can always be tweaked, but the JotW change is game-breaking for ret pallys, and I'm at a loss as to why you don't recognise this.
agnamemnon Oct 25th 2008 10:58PM
Some of the biggest problems i have seen is that people dont know what to do with the new and improved ret pally, it is a new thing for them to be a force to be reckoned with. I suspect the same things will be said about deathnights when they go live, for the simple fact that most have no idea the strategy to beat them at first.
razer9999 Oct 26th 2008 3:46AM
strategy remains to same to beat a paladin: stuns, kitting, silence, dot, ranged attacks
sorry things have not changed even in patch 3.02...
draeth Oct 25th 2008 10:59PM
game-breaking for ret pallies.
game-breaking ret pallies.
breaking ret pallies.
breaking pallies.
breaking.
this break down seems to sum up blizzards nerfs
Doc Oct 26th 2008 3:43AM
Get ready this is just the start of more to come, Blizz always does this kind of crap. Get you hooked on all the changes in the talent tree, and just when you are jazzed up boom nerf time. Now i see why i quit playing wow.
mitchellangelo86 Oct 25th 2008 11:31PM
You know what? I'm a retribution paladin, and honestly, I'm not worried. This is a BETA change. Anyone who's been involved in the beta knows that about a month or so ago Death Knights were nerfed. Hard. Ridiculously hard. Ludicrously hard. All strikes had their damage lowered. Alot of offensive talents had their damage lowered. But guess what? A couple builds later blizzard buffed them back up to par with the other classes. So, here's to hoping blizz follows their own precedent here, because I personally agree with what people are saying about the damage of all the specs being dictated by Ret. Like people have said, holy's damage is hurting now, and this change hurts prot paladins too.
Also, seriously, some people cry WAY too much.
turkeyspit Oct 25th 2008 11:41PM
While I agree with you, I would think that by now, 2 weeks until Launch, Blizz would have been done with the "lets do massive changes on PTR and see what happens".
For all the Ret haters out, you have my pity. It's really sad to see the low end of the gene pool given such a voice, but just like the cruddy mold on the doorframe calls for demolition, so too have your whines caused Blizz to demolish Ret.
As you wail on about getting pwnt in PvP at LV 70 by people with LV 80 talents, after S4 is over, after titles have been given out, after you've done accumulating points for gear you will replace in 2 weeks, consider the following:
- how many specs were laughed at for having poor DPS and yet at the same time, despised for having good DPS?
- how many specs were forced to endure two entire Seasons of Arena gear that didn't have any resilience on it?
- how many specs were forced to PvP for gear that (outside of Tier) wasn't itemized for them; Warrior gear.
I'm willing to bet that half the whiners comprise of Lolstep rogues who slept their way to 1800+ ratings because of how Blizz ordered "0"s and "1"s.
Fact is, most of you complainers have no idea what is has been like to be a Ret, and frankly, you lack the legitimacy to complain about it.
Is Ret OP atm? Sure. Is Ret OP at LV 80? Nope. Should Ret be hamstrung for LV 80 so people feel it's balanced at LV 70 for the span of 4 weeks? Only a retard would feel that way, which says alot about the player base of this game (at least those who spam the forums).
muffin_of_chaos Oct 26th 2008 5:15AM
I'm still confused as to why everyone seems to believe that 80 ret pallies pre-this-nerf were balanced for 80. Does anyone else PvP in the beta? Same abilities, same coefficients, same burst damage...
I don't care if Hand of Freedom's only up half the time. The burst damage of retadins combined with DKs' Death Grip made them dominate in situations with both classes, and so no...it wasn't balanced for 80.
Medros Oct 26th 2008 3:44AM
I blogged about this(http://www.allthingsazeroth.com/Medros/) and I have ot say I think the author is right on some, but the JotW nerf was both uncalled for and insulting. It has almost no effect on PvP, and in fact hurts us more in PvE than anything. So much for trying to nerf PvP without hurting PvE. I don't PvP, so I could care less about what I can or cannot do there, but I do raid on occassion and solo a lot, and the nerfs to both of those is huge with JotW. Other classes can kill multiple mobs before drinking, why can't we?
Zach Oct 26th 2008 5:15AM
Hi Medros! Nice short post. I'm considering re-thinking my position about the Judgement of the Wise change. I didn't test it extensively because I hardly play Beta now and I'm loathe to do theorycraft math.
But it does seem a little bit like overkill. I feel sad now.
Medros Oct 26th 2008 5:16AM
Thanks for taking another look, Zach. Like I said in my blog post, this is a drop from 975, which is decent, to less than 500, which is almost useless. In the time it takes Judgements to cool down I can go through up to 1500 mana, and the numbers from the big math heads bare out that this change is just insanely overnerfing something that didn't need that big of a change.