The Light and How to Swing It: Something's gone terribly wrong

The truth is, something's wrong with Retribution. There, I said it. I'm embarrassed to say it because I'm supposed to be celebrating it. I've waited for Retribution to be viable for so long that when the time finally arrives, I'm disgusted at myself for not being happy about it. Well, I'm really happy. But not happy about the fact that very nearly every Paladin is now specced Retribution. I'm certainly not happy about the fact that even undergeared Retribution Paladins are blowing things up in the Battlegrounds left and right. When a Retribution Paladin in blues can burst down a player with over 400 Resilience with some RNG -- and I've seen this happen -- there's something terribly wrong.
The problem
I hate to break it to you Retribution Paladins who suddenly find themselves dominating the Battlegrounds and getting Damage Control within the first five minutes -- you didn't just become good at PvP overnight. Really. When you crush that Season 4 Warrior with your Season 2 mace, it's not (necessarily) because you're awesome. If you suddenly find that other players -- well, other players who aren't Retadins, that is -- turn and run at the sight of you, trust me when I say it's not because of your Crusader's Scaled Shoulders, and certainly isn't your Oathkeeper.
Divine Storm being nerfed to deal Physical damage is a band-aid solution to a bigger issue. I'd prefer that it be Holy damage, but right now Retribution burst is being tuned down for PvP. At least Battleground PvP. In Arenas, a Retribution Paladin is still going to get kited because it's a coordinated PvP environment. And Paladins are still an incredibly kite-susceptible class. In the Battlegrounds, where chaos is the order of the day, a Retadin can wreak havoc because of unmitigated, imbalanced burst. I'm upset because it feels like it doesn't take any skill to play anymore.
Nowadays, when a Retadin tops the Battleground chart for Killing Blows or Damage Done, it's no longer something remarkable. In fact, it's kind of expected and boring. When I file screenshots of good games now, I have to put it in a folder with the asterisk *post Patch 3.0.2 just to remind me that it might not be because I played well but because the spec is simply too good at Level 70. That's the thing -- everything is tuned for Level 80 right now. All the 51-point abilities, in particular, are envisioned for a Level 80 environment.
The same goes for my damage in raids. Before Echoes of Doom, whenever I'd get into the Top 5 it was because I knew I was paying attention to my rotations. The only way I would do well was with a lot of hard work. I would throw Seal of Blood up exactly between my melee swing timer. I took my Haste Potions exactly when Avenging Wrath and Bloodlust Brooch were both up. It felt good because I knew I was working hard and making a point. Now, I'm not so sure. I work just as hard, but I don't know if I'm doing well or it's the spec.
It's like when Michael Schumacher used to win in Formula 1, critics used to accuse him of driving the best car. Or MotoGP's Valentino Rossi when he used to race and win on Honda, prompting him to switch to the unproven Yamaha just to shut his detractors up. I know motor sports probably aren't the best analogy for this, but you know what I mean. I just don't want people to think we're dominating Battlegrounds and topping Recount just because our spec is godly. As Blizzard says -- bring the player not the class, or in this case, spec.
The problematic solution
Of course, Blizzard will bring out the nerf bat. I know it feels like a kneejerk reaction, specially when players run to the forums crying with their tails between their legs. And many of them don't bother to mention that they got wtfpwned while wearing scrub gear. I trust in Blizzard to check their numbers, but the response frightens me. In Beta build 9138, Paladins got nerfed to the ground. And when I say 'to the ground', I mean insanely, ridiculously, soul-crushingly nerfed. The sad thing is, I'm not sure it actually solves the problem.
For one thing, the nerfs are applied across the board, reducing the damage done by all Seals, not just Seal of Command or Blood / of the Martyr. This means that all Paladins of every spec will be affected by the change. Holy Paladins are already hurting on the damage end, and this nerf reduces their damage output even more. Blizzard has been tuning Seal damage downwards for several Beta builds now, and Holy Paladins keep hurting because of it. The Holy spec has been crying out for a bone to be thrown its way with respect to this.
Another problem about reducing Retribution burst is that it doesn't address our old issues in PvP. The only way Retribution kills healers these days is because of sudden burst. In Arenas, this doesn't work as well because there's coordinated mitigation and healing. Reducing Retribution DPS brings damage output to manageable levels but will bring kitability and spell interruption back into question. Hand of Freedom hasn't been un-nerfed ever since the kneejerk reaction from Season 1. I don't care what Blizzard says about this one. The nerf to Blessing of Freedom was as kneejerk as they come, with Paladin representation in Arenas declining sharply in the following three Seasons.
Paladins still don't have a reliable interrupt on an acceptable cooldown. With damage scaled back down, Paladins will again be unable to kill healers just like in The Burning Crusade. While I don't believe that the ability to instagib healers was the solution, nerfing Retribution damage only reveals that Blizzard still hasn't addressed core issues of the class or spec. We're extremely kitable and without any offensive dispels, we have problems with spell interrupts. The best solution is to take 18 points in Protection for Improved Hammer of Justice and the 4-piece bonus from PvP sets. And that's just a band-aid.
Judgements of the Wise was nerfed to a 15% return of base mana from 33%. The good news is, Judgements cost only 5% of base mana. This means that Retribution Paladins will run out of mana at some point, but judicious (pardon the pun) use of Judgements will allow us to stretch our resources. In PvE, this will work out just fine, combined with Replenishment and the occasional potion. In PvP, it becomes a problem against drain mechanics -- another key weakness of the spec that will rear its ugly head once more. We'll see. I have to see it at work in Arenas (where it used to be a problem) before I can actually say whether or not this breaks the talent for PvP.
The only change I really like is the change to Righteous Vengeance, which will apply periodic damage with every Judgement or Divine Storm crit instead of bigger damage up front. The effective DPS is the same, just no longer as bursty. I like it because we get a DoT without being forced to use Seal of Vengance / Corruption. This will be more useful to us in PvP than the burst.
Bust up burst, but address the rest
I actually support Blizzard in their effort to scale down the class. I don't believe it's some conspiracy theory to make Retadins the laughing stocks of the game once again. At this point, I just want the issues that have always plagued the spec -- particularly in PvP, which Blizzard seems to want to fix -- eventually addressed, as well. With no healing debuff or spell interrupt, a Druid's HoT ticking for crazy amounts will render Retribution DPS negligible.
We'll still be kited to hell, with no means to close the gap like an Intercept or Sprint. We're the one melee class without a real snare, and we're the ones with no ranged abilities. Toughness and Pursuit of Justice are not the solutions, either. In Wrath of the Lich King, Death Knights will be pulling things left and right while we will be panting across the Arena floor trying to catch up with our targets. It happened in Arenas during The Burning Crusade, and it'll happen again in Wrath.
Lastly, I wish Blizzard would take a look at Holy DPS. If they're wondering why everybody and his uncle is now a Retribution Paladin, it isn't because players hate healing. It's because Holy is extremely unsatisfying to play offensively. With the nerf to Seals across the board, this frustration will grow even further. Protection Paladins are delirious with their damage now, it shouldn't be a surprise to them that Holy Paladins sometimes want to kill things, too.
Overall, I'm happy with the class. I think Blizzard's done a great job listening to the community so far. Obviously, there's just some more work that needs to be done. As terrible as these nerfs may sound, I don't think these were done without deliberation. If the nerfs actually make it live, we'll all just have to grin and bear it, and always keep our fingers crossed.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, (Paladin) The Light and How to Swing It, Wrath of the Lich King
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Reader Comments (Page 7 of 8)
Tainnym Oct 26th 2008 9:59PM
This... I hope it doesn't go on live. the only class I do enjoy is the Paladin class and reading this is disheartening. I do not want to roll a Warrior nor a Rogue.
My friends tried for a year to convince me of palying WoW. Bought it and rolled Warrior. Got bored of it and quit. One year later i decided to give it another chance. A friend recommended a Paladin because they could heal and do DPS...
Oh how wrong he was. Yet, I liked Ret and strolled along as a ret until lvl64 where things were quite hard because no group wanted me as Ret.
I rerolled tank, and I didn't like it. But the groups and guilds would pst me and I would get gear for my Ret spec. When I tried to roll for DPS plate or 2h, people would shun me and say that I was a tank, therefore I should back off because the warrior, shaman or even a druid wanted to roll on the item. Disappointing.
Hit 70, the patch 3.02 hits and I decided to reroll Ret. Wow... can't believe I can go into groups, do my daily grind and even be able to defend myself in PVP, whereas as Ret or Prot I was the target of mages, warlocks and hunters, not to mention plate users and priests who could easily remove my bubble, which as an additional note, is not immune to spells. I could even FINALLY get groups that would run me through Kara. I was 4th in the dps charts. I had enoug mana to either rez or heal... or even throw off-heals.
Now I read this. I do hope that this is beta fine tuning and not what's intended for the final version... I know our burst was a bit too much. But mana was our problem because our rotations, spells and judgements depended on mana. Autoattack on a 3.70 sec 2 hander is way too slow.
I feel a bit disappointed... and already decided that... if this is the final version, if this goes live, I may have to cancel my subscription and my pre-order.
I don't want to be OP, but neither I wish to be lolret.
twh Oct 26th 2008 10:00PM
So, for two weeks of ret paladins being competitive, completely ignoring the fact they've been underpowered since the game was release, you feel justified in beating them when they're down?
Bunch of hypocrites. all of you.
Browder Oct 26th 2008 10:00PM
I agree i hate that everyone who ever made a paladin all of a sudden pulled out their pally and said hey i can be ret now!! you had your main out for the past few years and were ashamed that you made a pally but as soon a ret becomes cool you're proud of your paladin you shunned for however long you've had it. Some of us paladins that love to play the class have been through all the turmoil the class has faced, now our class has been buffed(i really like what they've done with the pally trees)everyone thinks its so cool to have a pally. I also agree that yeah because we're pwning right now in pvp doesnt mean we will when we hit 80 because our dmg will most likely be nerfed or hopefully and finally balanced out.
KtKat Oct 26th 2008 10:00PM
As a PvE ret paladin, I am really disappointed about this nerfing. Pre-patch I had to struggle and work very hard just to earn a raid spot and be at the bottom of the dps. Post-patch I manage to put out moderate dps, for once. The best-geared rogues, warlocks, mages and even boomkins still beat me on the dps meters, but at least now I can beat out rogues with significantly lower-quality gear than me. So how exactly is that OP? Why shouldn't I, as a dps spec, be able to put out dps comparable to dps classes in comparable gear? I understand maybe the burst damage could make it unfair for PvP, but why can't Blizz find a way to make it fair for both PvP and PvE at the same time? I don't see why I shouldn't be able to participate in raiding just because people were so used to ret pallies being a joke that they hate to see us getting a break.
Verit Oct 27th 2008 12:23PM
You might not be all that good then - last night in Black Temple the two ret pallies we had were pushing over 2200-2500 dps, and they were wearing pvp/blue/badge gear and were a good 25-50% above all other players all night long.
splice Oct 26th 2008 10:01PM
Focusing on strictly PvE, ret paladins are ridiculously overpowered. It is insanity that a pally in blues pushes 1400+ DPS in a heroic while a t4/t5 mage hits 1200.
Pallies wear plate. They are plate healers, plate tanks, and plate dps'ers. One of the reasons dps classes are dps classes is that their gear is balanced towards damage and not survivability. DPS stays alive through distance and or avoidance, not armor. If they're not nerfed, there is no reason for classes in wow at all, paladins are essentially every class. Who needs CC in a 5man or raid when your dps can mitigate damage or heal through it or (now) can even provide cc themselves.
Just fix it already...
DeathPaladin Oct 26th 2008 10:02PM
I'd like to meet this theoretical paladin you're talking about. I have a mish-mash of predominantly Kara-entry gear, mostly blues, and recount had me in the mid-to-high 900s during a heroic Mechanar run immediately after the patch, which point be on the same level as the Arcane Mage I was grouped with (who, according to armory, is at the same level of gear). Before the patch, I was struggling to keep up with the tank in terms of DPS.
Also, not all plate is created equal. Being a melee dps, I try to keep my gear loaded up with strength, agility, attack power, and crit. You know what I have to sacrifice to get those higher? Armor, stamina, and defense stats. I can suck a hit better than my rogue friend, but my survival still depends just as much on getting out of the way of the really big hits. I may last an extra second or two versus a boss with a whirlwind attack, but I'm still just as dead if I don't have the wherewithall to get out of the boss's way when it does one.
As for being every class, I can only assume you are also in favor of nerfing druid into the ground.
"Who needs CC in a 5man or raid when your dps can mitigate damage or heal through it or (now) can even provide cc themselves."
Firstly, get a retribution paladin and try to heal yourself through a bad pull. I dare you. Particularly a bad pull that is heavy on casters.
Secondly, yeah, our CC is so overwhelming. Hammer of Justice and Repentence. Turn Evil and technically Divine Wrath if we're in an area full of demons and undead. One short-term all-purpose stun, one break-on-damage incapacitate versus humanoid/dragon/undead/demon, one fear versus undead/demon, and an AoE damage spell versus undead/demon that happens to have a short stun attached. So overpowered. No other class has nearly that level of CC.
splice Oct 26th 2008 10:01PM
most of raiding is still trash, and burst damage is just as overpowered there as it is in pvp.
Cynick Oct 26th 2008 10:01PM
Ok seriously, those of you that are saying that pallys are wtfpwning because of their lvl 80 talents, then how come the rest of the classes lvl 80 talents dont compare? The truth is at lvl 80 their abilites will only grow in OP'ness and they will be just as OP as they arre now if not worse. There is no justification or reason in saying that a s2 pally can beat a s4 anything. Sry but no matter how much you cry about it and pray to stay OP so u can kill anything in sight isnt going to get you anyware. Ret pallys are the most OP thing WoW has yet to see yet, lets just be thankful their reign of OPness was short and blizzard was quick to nerf them back to the mortal relm. All in all, you retadins QQing, seirously put a cork in it and know that you will be KOS by pretty much everyone that pvp's for some revenge.
Impulse Oct 27th 2008 5:34AM
Because for some reason paladin abilities all became rankless. They literally do have the same spells they would have at 80, whereas other classes will be getting rank 47 attack at 78.
Deathgodryuk Oct 26th 2008 10:02PM
...I have a holy paladin and I've seen my dps go up quite a bit since the patch... I don't need to do the dps of other classes to have fun, holy is a healing tree, I heal, thats what its for. If I wanted to crazy dps I'd do ret, as it is soloing is fine with holy and I can still take quite a few people in battlegrounds without much trouble so why would I complain?
KtKat Oct 26th 2008 10:02PM
"most of raiding is still trash, and burst damage is just as overpowered there as it is in pvp."
Fine, then give me sustained dps that's competitive enough for me to keep raiding, why is that such a crime?
"It is insanity that a pally in blues pushes 1400+ DPS in a heroic while a t4/t5 mage hits 1200."
That is pretty insane, since I'm a T5/6 ret pally and don't dps that high in a heroic. Exaggerate much?
And as far as PvE goes, how does it hurt a raid for ret pallies to do more damage? Omg, you might kill things slightly faster, oh no! The people I raid with are happy for me that I am doing better dps post-patch because it's more beneficial to the raid as a whole. Apparently they're not a bunch of self-centered, egotistical QQers who feel that they are entitled to top the dps charts in every raid or heroic they set foot in.
tython Oct 26th 2008 10:02PM
Pvp dictating game changes to a class again... /faceroll
Seriously, because paladins can actually do burst dps like warriors and rogues have been doing since S2-4, we're now Op? Give me a break. When DK's show up in a few weeks doing the same thing, people will cry for them to get nerfed too. Players can't handle change very well, especially in pvp.
Whatever class beats you in pvp is the class that needs nerfed. Well apparently the developers don't have a mind of their own because they listened to all the whining and now paladins are right back where they were before Wrath: weak in pvp and a buffbot in pve.
It's quite sad but expected with the wow mob mentality...
Sl0th Oct 26th 2008 10:02PM
The author of this piece is correct. Paladins need a nerf. My freshly leveled 70 Ret paladin needs a nerf. I knew it from the moment I logged on to him at level 64 right after the patch and way laying seige to Terrokar and Zangamarsh, wiping out every mob in sight while questing. My paladin was Ret before the patch because he killed stuff marginally faster than as holy and after about 10 levels of leveling holy, I couldn't take it any more. After the patch though, my Paladin had become a vengeful embodiment of holy wrath. He could solo group and kill people levels above him. And when he hit 70... He became a force to be reckoned with in battlegrounds. And he's as under geared as you'd imagine a character who just hit level 70 a few days ago would be.
I need a nerf. I love playing my paladin now. I love wiping out mobs incredibly fast. But it is overpowered beyond belief.
I keep telling people I'll go back to Holy when Ret stops being so much fun. And with these nerfs, I think the time for me to go back to healing will come. I really wish we had dual specs right now though. I healed an instance the other day for a friend and then tried to do a few dailies. It was horrible. I can't imagine trying to level like that in Wrath.
nagglecow Oct 26th 2008 10:03PM
Dang, I'm not even a paladin...I'm a druid. But I gotta be honest when I say I feel BAD for holy paladins. WOOT on nerfing ret, but Blizzard really ISN'T fixing anything. They are just screwing paladins over as a whole. Hey isn't Arthas a former paladin? That doesn't make him sound very tough, since paladins are now going back to being /lolpallies. So /lolarthas!
Vapori @ Frostmane Oct 26th 2008 10:03PM
I think that Ret is definitely in a very odd state right now...Hell, I'm in Sunwell Loot / Lightbringer + some Arena gear with Cat's Edge and I've been burst down by another Ret Pally sporting a S2 Weapon!!!!
I don't think that Blizzard listens to it's Paladin player base enough. That is where the problem starts.
Zach Oct 26th 2008 10:04PM
You're in T6 / Sunwell? You have no Resilience. =p OF COURSE you're going to be burst down!
You want to PvP, wear your PvP gear. >_<
Michael Oct 26th 2008 10:05PM
It wasn't burst damage in PvP that had me chaffing (as a hunter), it was the fact that I essentially had to burn down these rets 3 or 4 times. I decided to go back to green arrows, as burning down a ret was costing me a fortune. However, I discovered that it didn't really matter much what type of arrows I threw into them; they might as well have been gray for all the good they did. Somehow they're "immune" to 4 out of 5 attacks, including any kind of stun, and yet it seems they can stun/slow me with every second attack. Insignia of The Alliance is useless, and Bestial Wrath just delays my death by maybe 3 or 4 seconds. I can't even imagine how even more crappy this is for clothies.
Other classes shouldn't QQ about this, like I just did? People who QQ should just STFU? You're dreaming. You don't seriously think rets should remain this OP? How does that make any sense? Why would you want that? If they did that to hunters, I would hate it, as it would nerf any type of skill requirement to play the class, and render effective gear management moot. Every 3rd hunter would be an arrogant POS.
Armani Oct 26th 2008 10:06PM
Learn how to play against us... if we bubble you can use wrath, not for dps, but for stun resist and kite... and dps us after bubble from the distance...
To all who QQ'ed about Ret: You should have spent your time finding a way to beat us, (I can assure you that it is perfectly possible with every class in every spec) instead of QQ.
Michael Oct 26th 2008 11:59PM
It has a 2 minute cooldown, meanwhile it takes 3 minutes to kite, and even then it rarely works. It has nothing to do with learning to play against you. DPS from a distance? Please. Not when you're up against plate and 3 full heals.