Ask a Lore Nerd: Which came first, the Lich King or the Egg?
by Alex Ziebart 
Oct 26th 2008 at 8:00PM
Welcome to Ask a Lore Nerd, where each week Alex Ziebart answers your quests about the lore in the World of Warcraft. If you have any questions, no matter how big or small they might be, ask them in the comments section below and we'll try to answer it in a future edition.
It's another beautiful Sunday, and it's time for another edition of Ask a Lore Nerd! Let's jump righ tin with realmreaver's question...
It's another beautiful Sunday, and it's time for another edition of Ask a Lore Nerd! Let's jump righ tin with realmreaver's question...
If the humans turned their back on the Forsaken due to their undead condition. Why are they all lovely dovey towards the Death Knights? Are not an army of undead LOVED ONES a necessary evil too?
The Death Knight questline explains their return to the Horde/Alliance, and supplies some reasoning for why their factions are okay with them. Forsaken, on the other hand, are painted by the game to be very anti-Human. Why in the world would Humans accept them, former loved ones or not? One of their battle cries is, "Death to the living!" and they say such things consciously aware of their words. It's a completely different situation.
If a group of Forsaken went through the same thing our Death Knights did and atoned the same way our Death Knights are, they'd potentially have a shot of joining the fold, at least for awhile. As it stands, the Forsaken reject Humanity just as much as Humans reject the Forsaken. Sylvanas is their Queen, Varian Wrynn is not their King.
Siona asked...
Why is it that Arthas is known as the Lich King? From all of what I understand, Ner'zhul is really the spirit now in Arthas' body, or is at least the major presence in it. So, in reality, shouldn't we all be going "ARGH, NER'ZHUL!!" instead of "ARGH, ARTHAS!!"
What the hell is a Ner'zhul? Is that like, a sneeze? Did you sneeze? Do you need a tissue?
As other readers said, that's what most of the population of Azeroth would say if you called the Lich King Ner'zhul. He's significant to the Orcs, but not to anybody else. The name Ner'zhul holds no meaning. Prince Arthas Menethil, however, was Azeroth's celebrity. Everyone across the Eastern Kingdoms knew his name, and a fair chunk of Kalimdor came to know him during and after his fall.
To Azeroth, Ner'zhul does not exist. That name has no meaning. To Azeroth, there is only the Lich King and Prince Arthas. Only the Orcs would really care about Ner'zhul.
Hypo asked...
Why aren't the Night Elves and the Tauren allied or at least neutral towards another? I know that the Tauren have sworn allegiance to Thrall, but the two races have so much in common: They're crazy about Earthen balance, Druidism, preserving nature. They have the Cenarion Circle in which they ally, but why not besides that?
Politics are a complicated thing. Even people with very similar backgrounds and lifestyles can be at war. Territory, trade, whatever. Right now, I imagine the Tauren being allied with the Orcs is enough to split the two, but they haven't had a very good history, either. Old hatreds die hard and all that. There are a lot of little things under the surface that push groups away. You would think the Gnomes and Goblins would be best friends as well, but that's obviously not the case.
The Cenarion Circle is an entity seperate from both Darnassus and Thunder Bluff, so they're neutral in the whole deal.
Malix had two questions for us...
This has two parts about the Naga. I was wondering if the Naga might ever decide to join the Horde, as they don't have any racial enemies on that side and have actually felt kinship with the blood elves.
The Horde hate the Naga just as much as anybody else. The Blood Elves don't particularly like them either. Kael'thas and his lackies were the only ones to ally with them. Kael has a history of allying with groups that the Blood Elves at large would find horrifying. Vashj, Illidan, the Burning Legion. The Blood Elves have no real affinity to the Naga. They hate them all the same. And Naga hate everything that isn't in the water (and some things that are), so there's that, too.
The second question is how powerful could Azshara be now? She was stronger than Mannoroth 10,000+ years ago. Now that she's naga-fied and immortal, could she be on equal footing as, say Kil'jaeden or even Sargeras?
We don't really know, honestly. I have severe doubts that she's on equal footing with Sargeras, because if that were the case she wouldn't be sitting at the bottom of the ocean. She would probably be eating Kalimdor whole. Kil'jaeden? Eh, it's a stretch. But it's possible, I suppose. We fought Kil'jaeden in Sunwell, but we didn't kill him. Not nearly. We just kinda bopped him on the head and pushed him back into a portal. Only time will tell which of the two is more powerful, we haven't seen much of Azshara in a very long time. She's supposedly pretty strong, but for all we know she's just sat on a couch for hte last 10,000 years and the Naga only serve her because man, she's the freaking Queen!
Ask a Lore Nerd is here to answer all of your questions about the lore and story of the Warcraft universe. From the religions of the universe to the 'evils' of Azeroth, everything is fair game. If you want more in-depth answers to some of your questions, you may find what you're looking for in Know Your Lore or the WoW Insider Directory.Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Lore, Death Knight, Ask a Lore Nerd
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
Nyttyn Oct 26th 2008 8:10PM
Why on earth is the king varin acting so strange? He refuses help to westfall, (Edit this to the place it is) The really dark creepy place the scythe of elune was found, And redridge.
RogueJedi86 Oct 26th 2008 8:16PM
Who said Varian refuses? Has he said as such since he came back in 3.0.2, or has it simply been quiet since Onyxia left? Before, it was all Onyxia, but I'd guess Blizzard hasn't really written in why anything's changed. Probably just too lazy to change the Lakeshire bridge model, and removing all the Orcs in Redridge and Defias in Westfall would just end up losing alot of quests for leveling newbies.
Cow Oct 26th 2008 9:33PM
That was before Wrynn came back.
Onyxia (posing as Lady Prestor) was attempting to sabotage efforts at uniting the three kingdoms.
Nyttyn Oct 26th 2008 11:29PM
Umm no.
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=120
----^
Dis quest does
bonse Oct 27th 2008 5:05AM
remember that that quest only says the king makes the decision because the populace is not to know the king (at the time the quest is set although things have changed now) was not on the throne but 'away on business'. Ony was making all the decisions in the king's name.
Whether blizz go back to update this quest line will be interesting to see as the quests following the storyline go right through deadmines, stockades, pick up at lvl 30 for the new ones in dustwallow and then link into the now abandoned ony attunement chain
realmreaver Oct 27th 2008 8:02AM
In responce to yours about my question; Thank you.
However I must politely disagree with your conclusions. Nothing in the quest text explains how the Death Knights actually was accepted they simply were. Tiron was kicked out of the Alliance and he's now apart of a neutral faction which alows the Horde; enemy of the Alliance to mingle with them. With wyrnn's mentality they would all be traitors.
Second, the encampment dalaran quests shows not all forsaken are wicked and on that note there is 4 year gap of lore to show WHY Forsaken have their poor attitude?
They prob saw firsthand what happens to those who tried to return with the fear of the scourge fresh in people's mind how many forsaken was taken out and brutally put to death screaming their love to their family why the family cheered on his demise thinking he/she's of the Scourge.
Do not discount what likely happened. they we're feared distrusted and hunted down with a fevor thinking they are a trick to only betray the Alliance later.
Loved ones scorned them.
Their country betrayed them.
They are truly Forsaken.
Amaxe Oct 27th 2008 11:31AM
"Why on earth is the king varin acting so strange? He refuses help to westfall, (Edit this to the place it is) The really dark creepy place the scythe of elune was found, And redridge."
Such is the problem with retconning. The Defias quest in Theramore for example... it was written when the King was missing and sort of rewritten when the king returned. The problem is, with Wrynn back, the quest is worthless... he knows who kidnapped him, so why do we need proof of who was involved?
Such is the problem of keeping the quests the same when the events have passed them by.
Rolaran Oct 26th 2008 8:19PM
Moonfire, Starfire and so forth seem to be Druid powers granted by Elune to the Night Elves. But how are Tauren able to cast them?
snoopy Oct 26th 2008 8:30PM
U might wanna check out this link for your answer
http://www.wowwiki.com/Moon
Chris Oct 26th 2008 8:34PM
They were granted by the Earthmother.
Perhaps Elune and the Earthmother are really the same being, or aspects of the same deity?
elprogramer Oct 27th 2008 12:19AM
^Elune is considered one of the eyes of the Earthmother.
Ben Oct 26th 2008 8:34PM
A question I've been wondering.
So I get that when the Forsaken first joined everyone was kind of wary of em. But what they've been allied with the Horde for 5 years now? Have the horde in general started to warm to em yet or are they still not trusting em?
Aldheim Oct 26th 2008 11:28PM
The Wrath Gate questline in WotLK would seem to answer that as "both yes and no."
Ben Oct 27th 2008 12:03AM
Wow thats vague :P
Guess I'll just wait to see in wotlk, been trying to stay spoiler free as far as lore is concerned in it.
PimpyMicPimp Oct 26th 2008 8:34PM
Why is everything 'humaniod'? Wouldn't Orcs call Humans 'Orcinoid'? Wouldn't Gnomes call Trolls 'Gnomoid'?
I find this blatant racial bias very offensive.
Shanic Oct 26th 2008 8:40PM
I don't believe gameplay mechanics are necessarily applied to the lore.
They are called humanoids because we are human, no one else (that I am aware of) has ever referred to everyone else as "humanoid". In fact, it is generally "mortal races".
Vendrill Oct 26th 2008 8:51PM
Oy, my 'roids are killin' me!
... I mean my 'noids. Wait, I mean... um,
slimj091 Oct 26th 2008 8:55PM
"The term "humanoid" refers to any being whose body structure resembles that of a human. In this sense, the term indeed describes primates, as well as mythological creatures and artificial organisms (robots), especially in the context of science fiction and fantasy fiction. An android or gynoid is a humanoid robot designed to look like a specific gender, although the words are frequently perceived to be synonymous.
Usually, a fictional humanoid species has the same basic body outline as a human, being bipedal with hands which include fingers and opposable thumbs, but differs in details such as number of digits, coloring, ear form, presence of hair, average height and weight, size of nose, form of skin, "extras" such as horns, plates, claws, tails or multiple appendages, limb structure (such as having digitigrade legs) and taxonomic lineage (being descended from reptiles, fish, rodents, marsupials, or a phylum not evolved on Earth, perhaps, instead of primates). Reptilian humanoids are a common concept."
humanoid isn't a race. it's a body type. btw.. wiki is your friend.
PimpyMicPimp Oct 26th 2008 9:01PM
I thought my sarcasm was obvious :/
Ametrine Oct 26th 2008 8:38PM
"She's supposedly pretty strong, but for all we know she's just sat on a couch for the last 10,000 years and the Naga only serve her because man, she's the freaking Queen!"
I would LOVE to see someone draw up Azshara, sitting on a couch eating bonbons (like Peg Bundy?), barking orders to murlocs and naga and whatever other aquatic monsters she considers her minions.