Ghostcrawler talks about Paladin nerfs
by Zach Yonzon 
Oct 27th 2008 at 1:30AM
In the Beta forums, which players seem to be unable to post on at the moment, Ghostcrawler outlined the nerfs and explained the reasoning behind each one. Over at the live forums, he answered some questions fielded by players from several upset posts. It's a very illuminating read, and here are some of the interesting points:
- On Retribution burstiness as part of design - "Yes, that's the design. It's also a tough design to nail because if you're too bursty the opponent doesn't even get to respond."
- On Paladins running out of mana - "we might as well take the mana bar off the UI because it was just irrelevant to hitting any buttons."
- On why they said Retribution was fine (even during BlizzCon, where the now-famous joke quote was uttered) - "Because we didn't want to have to nerf the spec. Ret players were having fun."
- On other classes now laughing (again) at Retribution - "Well, they're jerks."
The real good news, however, is that Blizzard is actively tuning the class instead of ignoring it. This gives me hope for better balance, particularly when Ghostcrawler talks about how the nerfs to Seals damage affects the other two specs, as well. He says that they realize that Holy and Protection are affected by the nerfs, too, "and that is something for which we are prepared to offer compensation".
Hopefully this means that talents deep in both trees will be reworked or buffed to compensate for the massive 20% damage nerf. I'm hoping even more that Blizzard addresses other key issues of the Retribution spec, such as mobility and the inability to overcome healing now that burst potential has been, ahem, nerfed to the ground. With Blizzard's close focus on PvP -- and a large reason for the nerfs come from PvP numbers -- I hope these perennial issues will be fixed, too. Head over to the forums for more from Ghostcrawler.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 10)
Raco Oct 27th 2008 1:36AM
Flat out bullshit on blizzards part. a 20% nerf? That is beyond rediculous. MAYBE a 10%...MAYBE, but 20%. We might as well reroll arms warriors now.
MisterMoose Oct 27th 2008 2:08AM
10% nerf would have people screaming too. If it was followed by a 5% nerf it would be that much worse. A 20% nerf might well be overkill, but that allows them to tune things up from here on out rather than down.
That's my thought anyhow. (That said, Retadins were doing crazy damage, and still are on live, so maybe 20% is just right).
shumanfu Oct 27th 2008 3:15AM
Your retnub tears are so sweet... mwahaha
Blizzard should have retired this stupid tree a long time ago infact all classes should only have 2 specs.
It's always 1 tree that is full of QQ.
A furry warrior Oct 27th 2008 5:10AM
Oh...I'm so going to enjoy hunting down all you paladins that were acting like gods of PvP...let me see your skill now
P.S. Just remember to put your old macro back on the bars
/cast Divine Shield
/stopcasting
/use Hearthstone
Jane Gray Oct 27th 2008 4:24AM
I think its cool that they and boomkins are so OP right now. All of BC those two classes were the scrubs that no one really wanted to bring, its only fair that they get a moment to shine.
I would agree that its not gear dependent enough, and terribly geared players shouldnt' be able to outdps those in tier 6.
Impulse Oct 27th 2008 4:47AM
while shumanfu's post at first glance appears to be a typically trite attempt at trolling, he does have a point. most likely accidentally. Blizzard probably would have been better off removing the third paladin tree or given it up as the leveling spec, because they don't know what they're doing with it.
Bizz Oct 27th 2008 5:29AM
My roommate sent me this (he plays Pally, i'm lock), something he found on the pallyforums:
"Go ahead, enjoy your days of OPness. Just remember, though, that they will come to an end. The nerf bat may swing slowly, but it hits hard, my friend. And then? Even after you are nerfed into safety-padded, foam-rubber oblivion, you will still have to deal with the world's hate and resentment. You will be Target Number Uno in every BG and Arena, long after the days that you represented some disproportionate threat are gone. And when, despite being nerfed to a shadow of your former OP self, you do actually manage to kill someone, you will get neither credit nor glory. You will hear the mutterings of "Oh, a ret pally killed me? Figures. Stupid OP class..." even when the devs have left you with nothing but Crusader Aura and your hammer. So enjoy, young OP ret pally. While you can....
Love,
The Warlocks."
I lol'ed
benicrystal Oct 27th 2008 7:12AM
That was a comment on WoWinsider. I find it funny the the "Warlocks" left out my reply. I'll get the link in a bit..
benicrystal Oct 27th 2008 7:12AM
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/10/14/beyond-the-lich-looking-forward-to-future-patches/
Naix Oct 27th 2008 10:29AM
haha! Back where you Paladins belong. For a second I was fearing the ret Paladin. Now I can laugh again when I see one.
Ryan Oct 27th 2008 10:41AM
Enjoy your nerfs. Pally tears are delicious.
jeleyman Oct 27th 2008 11:20AM
i am personal witness to a 7300+ crit from a Retadin...why only 20%?
glad the days on retadins 1 or 2 shotting anyone wearing less than S2 Mail are possibly over.
creepsville Oct 27th 2008 1:39AM
I understand what you're saying about the fun being stripped away from the ret pallys, however, what about the fun of all of the other players in PvP being taken away from Ret Pallys dominating them with ease? My fun was sucked dry and every BG is played in showcased a Ret pally with top dmg every time.
Something had to be done because the pally match up to other classes had become wayyyy too uneven.
twh Oct 27th 2008 2:16AM
Right, because it was totally fair and balanced for ret paladins to be practically ignored because they couldn't pressure healers, had low dps, and could be kited to hell and back. And this has been the case since the game began.
You're all a bunch of damn hypocrites.
Tyler Oct 27th 2008 2:57AM
Yes EVERY battleground top damage done was a paladin, except for the rogues, mages and warriors. Clearly however the paladin class was in need of a nerf. A couple of times they actually beat another class! /sarcasm
Really, we were OP but not by 20%. Now without our burst we have nothing to work with.
And the 15% JOTW nerf is frustrating. 20% was almost good enough, 15% won't be.
Heilig Oct 27th 2008 3:03AM
The pally matchup to SOME other classes had become uneven. Have you tried to kill a frost mage recently as a pally? Or an arcane mage for that matter? Maybe a bleed spec rogue? How about a Bladestorm warrior when your bubble's on CD? Cat druids pretty much require a bubble to beat at this point, so do boomkins.
Just because pallies blow up people they can get close to doesn't make them OP. They're just OP in BG's where they can run into a group when their bubble is up and rape face. Put them in an arena and they don't do so well. Any kiting class is almost guaranteed to win against ret still.
Are you noticing a pattern in all the calls for nerfs to classes? It's the burst, stupid. Arcane mages one-shot people. DPS druids one-shot people. Bleed rogues one-shot people. Affliction locks one-shot people (kinda). The classes are tuned for Lvl 80, and some of the nerfs are hitting paladin DPS way too hard. Being able to drop 10K burst on a clothie right now = win. Being able to drop 14K burst on a Lvl 80 clothie with 20K health = kited paladin.
My only consolation is the compensation line. I'm hoping that means bigger shield slams for Prot, and bigger Holy Shocks for holy.
Spearhawk Oct 27th 2008 4:13AM
I agree that something had to be done however I do feel its unjust to nerf us back to hell. 20% nerf in addition to the already herfs has put our retribution paladins at lower level than before the 3.0 patch at all.
Your talking about fairness to other players, how long have paladins been misstreated? 8-9 months? and they had good for 2-3 weeks before they back to being ridiculed and excluded from raids.
Ever think of that ret paladins actually have feeling too and even if we where OP for a short persiod of time does that in any way compesate for the strip downs we suffered during 9 months of ridicule?
Radiophonic Oct 27th 2008 8:26AM
Oddly enough, in the most recent battlegrounds I find myself (a survival hunter) topping the charts with fury warriors and ret pallys down 5th or 6th. Comical?
Dirtyplay Oct 27th 2008 5:08PM
Just replying to something Helig said:
" Being able to drop 10K burst on a clothie right now = win. Being able to drop 14K burst on a Lvl 80 clothie with 20K health = kited paladin."
So you get someone with 20k life to down to 6k life in 3-4 seconds then you think oh shit there is no way I could ever catch this person?! ok your just terribad then... You still have repentence (Just implying that you used your HoJ in the burst) to catch up to them AND if that wasnt enough to catch up to them YOU DONT HAVE TO!!! You have INSTANT cast Hammer of Wraths that crit for insanely high damage! My resto druid actually got crit for 3.8k which is fking rediculous. That was my full 35% life... so QQ more Im sure that you could survive being kited long enough to get two Hammer of Wraths off.
Mirajj Oct 27th 2008 1:40AM
Lolret and/or Retadin...at least you just have a derogatory term for one spec. Try being a "huntard". No matter what you do or how good you are, folks see a hunter and that's it. You are a "huntard", unless proven otherwise multiple times.