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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsGhostcrawler talks about Paladin nerfs
by Zach Yonzon 
Oct 27th 2008 at 1:30AM
In the Beta forums, which players seem to be unable to post on at the moment, Ghostcrawler outlined the nerfs and explained the reasoning behind each one. Over at the live forums, he answered some questions fielded by players from several upset posts. It's a very illuminating read, and here are some of the interesting points:
- On Retribution burstiness as part of design - "Yes, that's the design. It's also a tough design to nail because if you're too bursty the opponent doesn't even get to respond."
- On Paladins running out of mana - "we might as well take the mana bar off the UI because it was just irrelevant to hitting any buttons."
- On why they said Retribution was fine (even during BlizzCon, where the now-famous joke quote was uttered) - "Because we didn't want to have to nerf the spec. Ret players were having fun."
- On other classes now laughing (again) at Retribution - "Well, they're jerks."
The real good news, however, is that Blizzard is actively tuning the class instead of ignoring it. This gives me hope for better balance, particularly when Ghostcrawler talks about how the nerfs to Seals damage affects the other two specs, as well. He says that they realize that Holy and Protection are affected by the nerfs, too, "and that is something for which we are prepared to offer compensation".
Hopefully this means that talents deep in both trees will be reworked or buffed to compensate for the massive 20% damage nerf. I'm hoping even more that Blizzard addresses other key issues of the Retribution spec, such as mobility and the inability to overcome healing now that burst potential has been, ahem, nerfed to the ground. With Blizzard's close focus on PvP -- and a large reason for the nerfs come from PvP numbers -- I hope these perennial issues will be fixed, too. Head over to the forums for more from Ghostcrawler.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Forums
Reader Comments (Page 10 of 10)
Eopie Oct 27th 2008 1:35PM
All this QQ is making me sick.
Especially by the WoWInsider poster.
I see nothing wrong with them releasing the main the talents to the public then going back and "nerfing" or "changing" them when need be. If anyone thought they didn't have the potential to change since they were now released on live, well that's their fault.
twh Oct 27th 2008 3:11PM
It's one thing to nerf or change to reasonable levels... it's another to completely gut a class's ability to do damage, and hurt the other specs in the same swoop.
Raven Oct 27th 2008 2:09PM
Seriously this has to be a joke.
I played my Paladin as my main and my only for nearly all of TBC. I saw all content except SWP before patch 3.0.2.
I was Protection. No raid spots since Paladin is not a real tank and you just need them for gimmicks and Hyjal. "Go roll warrior if you wanna tank, nub".
I was Holy. This was all fine til middle T5+. Oh look, no mobility, no HoT's, no AoE. "Go roll Shammy you nub, Paladins suck at healing, the only reason you're here is for ". Week after week I am steamrolled on the healing by Resto Shamans just clicking Chain Heal repeatedly.
I didn't even dare spec Ret cos 'LOLRET', enough said.
Having levelled and doing dailies etc as Prot and Holy I can tell you it sucked. I play any other class and it is absolutely bliss not to take forever to kills mobs and requiring constant drink downtime. I put up with 'hybrid' meaning I was worst at each of my roles, despite only being able to do one at a time. Blizzard constantly assured us that fixes were incoming.
So TBC draws to a close and we were never really fixed. I stopped subscribing and dreamed of rolling a Deathknight. The new Wrath stuff starts being announced and lo and behold nothing is announced for Paladins, I'm not surprised. Then, Ghostcrawler starts posting and Paladins actually look to be half decent. Holy is getting some nice things, Prot is getting some nice things and Ret might be viable.
Fast forward to present day and Holy is even more boring than in TBC with no real raid healing capability, Prot is still lacking a bit and now no longer has such a big niche in AoE tanking and Ret is omgwtfoverpowered (yes it's true).
Now with these nerfs, Holy is going to be almost unplayable solo, I'm worried about Protection's threat being lacklustre and still having mana issues and Ret looks to be even worse off than before.
I'm sorry but it's too much. I don't care so much about Ret, although I don't think it's too much to ask to at least be doing comparable DPS so you actually get brought to raids but now this has hurt all Paladins. I'm sick of this hybrid crap meaning I have to suck at everything. If there are better classes at each role, why bring a Paladin to a raid? There's not even as many blessings now so you need even less!
And then the words are spoken. Don't worry, we'll keep an eye on things and you'll get buffed again if you need it! Yeah sure, 3.1? 3.2? Maybe just in time for the last content patch of WotLK.
As a final note, I am PvE only but I can see how this must suck for PvP. Protection isn't really a PvP spec, from the Arena I played, Holy was pointless (why not bring Resto druid instead!) so Ret was the only real PvP tree available and now they are susceptible to a couple of mana drains and then LOLRET.
I was planning on staying Prot for most of WotLK and now it looks like the best and only option and even then that's pushing it.
If my fears prove true once WotLK is out, I'm afraid I'll have to choose to spend my time in better ways than playing a joke of a class in what is actually an otherwise fun game/timesink.
Anyway, yeah I know QQ more my tears taste so delicious etc. fuck you.
Raven Oct 27th 2008 2:11PM
that was supposed to be "Go roll Shammy you nub, Paladins suck at healing, the only reason you're here is for [insert blessing here]".
vine Oct 28th 2008 5:04PM
It's unfortunate that you don't seem to understand the mechanics of the class you are playing.
Bring a shammy or druid or priest for healing? I top the charts every raid on my holy paladin. Every time. And it's not because the other healers suck, trust me they don't, holy is a ridiculously powerful spec. You should put more time into understanding the mechanics of the class, you'd be a lot happier, I bet.
rinc Oct 27th 2008 2:54PM
Hi, I've been playing pally for 3 years now.
Mostly I played Holy ret builds (31/0/20, 40/021) with short or longer visits to standard healing/tanking/ret builds.
I think one of the issues that should be fixed is the change of spell coef. Making them influencing spells for such a low %, meant the gear wouldn't make much difference. The only reason I saw for that to happen was for Blizzard to be able to fine tuning dmg output of every spell, but... 20% nerf is hardly a "fine Tuning".
Also I ve seen them nerfing ret tree talents and moving them up the tree for holy pallys not to be able to have it. And now they are nerfed again. It seems to be a reactive decision making instead of careful planning.
At the holy side of the story, I ll use the example of deep tree talent, called holy power ( i think) giving you 5% holy spell crit for 5 points, and nothing else.
It was there for years now, unchanged, and now you have far better talent (conviction) at much lower tier.
My opinion was, and is, that they fixed ret and prot spell power problems with deep tree conversion talents and that the additional nerf of spell coef. was pointless. It only gave retadins double for their money - hence inciting the current nerf, while holy/prot pallies got nerfed before, and they are nerfed now as well as ret with this changes.
It looks like killing an amaeba with a .... "big mace" :p
*Idea: put sanctity aura back in Holy tree like it was pre 1.9 patch, with additional effect of reinstalling the old spell power coef. from TBC.
I've been recently leveling ret pally on opposing faction and .. well lets just say i never carried any food or water :) I have fun with it, and hopefully will be able to level it up before the nerf comes live.
Issor Oct 27th 2008 6:34PM
Retardin never referred to the spec: it referred to the players behind the spec, since most of them are retarded mouthbreathers.
RetadinMan Oct 27th 2008 5:18PM
This nerf seriously sucks @$$. If they lower burst by a marginal percentage like 2 or 3%, thats fine, but lowering it by 10 or 15% (which is more likely) is just ridiculous. As a Retadin, formerly Protadin, i can say that retribution talent tree is great right now especially with a build like 0/5/51, I can get to 80 easily when WotLK comes out. But, if Blizz nerfs Ret, I will get a forum petition going to reduce the nerf. Look for Dakayonnano on the Paladin forum.
Isa Oct 28th 2008 12:24AM
OH NOES! Im doing too much damage! I must nerf my fun because I'm not a pure dps class and I want to be fair!
Screw your self righteous BS. I do not care about your hierarchy dps list; Im going to 'be that all I can be' in damage. Because it's fun. Really. Auto attacking a same level mob for 2 minutes just to kill them is not fun when I can kill it way faster on my other "pure dps" characters. But that's balance right?
I play a paladin, rogue, and hunter. I can destroy people in 5 seconds and be destroyed in 5 seconds. With resilience borked, all I see are nice big juicy crits...and its awesome! No more hour long fights of playing patty cake with my opponent. Strategy still counts, but you have to be on the ball right now to live/kill.
And that's all there is to it. Learn your opponent's weakness and exploit it. In this case it's paladins. I know what can kill me. I think it's time you figure it out too.
LOL @ PvP dictating what nerfs I get.
Vernard Oct 28th 2008 1:35AM
As a ret pally i have 2 say yes we needed a nerf.but it shoulda been saved til after the exp hit cause now blizz is gonna nerf us to balance us VS 70 players. so when 80 hits and everyone gets new armor and Abilitys (noticed how the ret tree gets no new abilitys from trainer just ranked up blessings) we will be still balanced for a 70 level and be gimped at 80 having the same problems we did at the start of BC.
patrick Oct 28th 2008 1:47AM
Sorry, slightly off topic...but why can't a hybrid be just as good at any role (tank, heal, dps) as a specialist class?
I mean where was that written down?
I mean we can't play all 3 roles at once, so if we spec and gear to one roll then surely we should be just as good as a specialist all things being equal.
A prot pala will be very unlikely to throw a single heal in an instance or raid, so why can't he be able to tank as well as a warrior?
Similarly, holy palas don't hit many things and usually only take damage when a wipe is in progress so why can't they heal as well as everyone else.
Ret palas probably have time to chuck the odd heal in but it's not their job in a raid. And in BGs and arena there either isn't time for a heal or it happens after the enemy are dead. Sure I can chuck a sneaky heal into my mage arena partner when he iceblocks and I bubble, but that is just wasting my chance to nuke the bad guys whilst immune.
I know a lot of people who rolled 'pure' classes seem to have this idea that the druids/pala/shammy classes should be seen as utilities and never top their roles.....but......why?
It's not a D&D concept. It's not written in any manual I've seen. There is no 'lore' reason. Can someone tell me why they feel hybrids shouldn't be able to top the role they spec to?
Knuxx Nov 4th 2008 3:29PM
All you who think ret should be nerfed are correct, but you have the wrong reasons.
i saw with my own eyes a 4/5 brutal blade storm warrior with brutal weapon, and some sunwell gear die to a ret pally who had maybe half season 2 gear, and the pally had 2k health left.
plate wearers, without a doubt, MUST be gear dependant or else theyre op. if you give a warrior the ability to damage without a weapon, but the weapon also stacks with the base damage, we would be one shotting everything we could get our hands on.
Drood Nov 10th 2008 6:22PM
Ok guys be happy for the nerf on the paladin as me, but you are ignoring the mage^^ The class with most dps atm. And quess what they are getting buffed....Arcabe Blast is going to be a filler between AB, CS, AB etc etc....
Paladins needed a 20% decrase. Still they tear down people so they wont have a problem to nuke a Fury Warrior ^^loool.
Anywyas Moonkin aint that OP as everyone wants them to be. Atm im playing a Brutal druid and they are fun in random bg, but in arena u never really manage to do that insane dps you guys complain about. I really want to see it...Either your keyboardsturners or I don't know :S
Kolzar Nov 19th 2008 2:13AM
Hmm....73 Shaman in full PVP gear getting 3 shot by a pally (70) OP or am I doing something wrong? I do not mind losing but come on....do not sacrifice all other players to make pallies better. If the people you have at Blizz now cannot balance the class find a programmer who can.