Ghostcrawler talks about Paladin nerfs

In the Beta forums, which players seem to be unable to post on at the moment, Ghostcrawler outlined the nerfs and explained the reasoning behind each one. Over at the live forums, he answered some questions fielded by players from several upset posts. It's a very illuminating read, and here are some of the interesting points:
- On Retribution burstiness as part of design - "Yes, that's the design. It's also a tough design to nail because if you're too bursty the opponent doesn't even get to respond."
- On Paladins running out of mana - "we might as well take the mana bar off the UI because it was just irrelevant to hitting any buttons."
- On why they said Retribution was fine (even during BlizzCon, where the now-famous joke quote was uttered) - "Because we didn't want to have to nerf the spec. Ret players were having fun."
- On other classes now laughing (again) at Retribution - "Well, they're jerks."
The real good news, however, is that Blizzard is actively tuning the class instead of ignoring it. This gives me hope for better balance, particularly when Ghostcrawler talks about how the nerfs to Seals damage affects the other two specs, as well. He says that they realize that Holy and Protection are affected by the nerfs, too, "and that is something for which we are prepared to offer compensation".
Hopefully this means that talents deep in both trees will be reworked or buffed to compensate for the massive 20% damage nerf. I'm hoping even more that Blizzard addresses other key issues of the Retribution spec, such as mobility and the inability to overcome healing now that burst potential has been, ahem, nerfed to the ground. With Blizzard's close focus on PvP -- and a large reason for the nerfs come from PvP numbers -- I hope these perennial issues will be fixed, too. Head over to the forums for more from Ghostcrawler.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Forums
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Reader Comments (Page 5 of 10)
Shortaxe Oct 27th 2008 3:45AM
One thing that everyone seems to be missing is that the Pali's are OP in PVP..NOT PVE...hell we can finally kill something is less than 5mins and you want to swing the nerf bat..The ppl that "supposedly"are tuning the class have obviously never tried to lvl as prot or holy let alone ret.
If you must swing the bat..swing it at the PVP side and leave those that play the game for the game alone.
Is it too much to ask to focus on the PVE side of things for a change?
mentholis Oct 27th 2008 5:13AM
a 61 pally got me down to 10% i have 400 resil
gphreak Oct 27th 2008 5:13AM
You can think of the nerf what you like but you have to admit that this guy is pretty committed to what he does and keeps the community updated. I like it :)
Regarding the nerf itself I really appreciate it. And honestly, most retadins deserve it. I met ONE ret-pally that didn't boast with his damage since the patch and flooded the guild-, party- and whatever-chat with his damage meter. Even pretty normal persons got transformed into idiots.
It will be a joy to see those %§$&&§$ cry again and the people that pay attention to their class still put out serious damage.
redstar Oct 27th 2008 7:02AM
as a healer i have had to put up with rogues, locks, mages linking or askking for the damage meters every 15 min in a raid. The amount of preening and self-congratulation has been of epic proportions.
To suggest that this is a new thing brought in with the new ret, is hypocracy if you are one of the classes that i mentioned or delusional if you are not.
lol
WoW
gphreak Oct 27th 2008 10:19AM
By no means I wanted to imply that this is a thing invented by 3.0-ret pallys. And yes, every class has idiots (you forgot shamy's of all sorts, the lol-me-is-fury-warrior-lol and what not).
But still, after 3.0 I had a 95% chance of grouping with a ret-pally idiot with above described behaviour. Can't remember the last lock, rogue or whatever that annoyed the heck out of me. At least not with that kind of crap.
So yes, I will definitly enjoy the once-again silent retadin. Either he's a retard and plays like one or he's good and knows it - there are exceptions to the rule but most of the times these people just enjoy being top dpser instead of boasting with it.
I'm playing a prot-pally and a resto-shaman btw.
Mihn Oct 27th 2008 4:11AM
All the grey posts that are modded down by the paladins proves to me Pallies need to grow the hell up and listen to people.
You cant seem to take any dissenting opinion, so you mod them down.
Looks like they are right, you need a Nerf, and a pacifier and rattle, too.
Godest Oct 27th 2008 4:20AM
this blows -.- how can u even make such a change, then just to take it back ? " they were having fun" dumbest thing iv ever heard. yea so now we aint gonna have fun no more, thanks for the info. time to reroll a game where you can actully solo as a paladin. CRAP ! -.- major failure
szimm Oct 27th 2008 4:21AM
"to nerf the spec now is akin to taking candy away from a baby after the baby already tasted the candy."
you said it yourself - to cry about this is like being a baby. its a game, and if the balance isnt right, the game is not fun. not even for the ones who are overpowered. lv 70 raiding fx, with the current nerf to boss and mob health, is incredibly boring.
mitch Oct 27th 2008 4:22AM
***Heilig said...
This problem could be solved so simply, by giving prot and ret talents that convert their mana bars into rage bars. Put them deep in the trees, and make them required for getting to teh juicy talents. Put it right in front of CS in ret, and right in front of Ashield in prot. Frontloaded burst damage is gone, threat skills like Ashield can be made free. prot and ret are no longer able to just stop for a second and heal to full, burst damage goes down, prot is most likely happier, and ret can't really complain about intellect or mana problems anymore.***
You just described a warrior, fool.
Generik Oct 27th 2008 5:07AM
That's it. I've had all I can take from Blizzard.
I QUIT.
tarn Oct 27th 2008 5:19AM
I let my subscription run out a few days ago mostly to get off the wow hamster wheel, but this is just one more good reason I'm glad I quit.
peagle Oct 27th 2008 9:11AM
Glad you're both sticking around WoWInsider, presumably to keep informing us on your quit status.
Kodo Oct 27th 2008 5:31AM
/cast Stormstrike
/spit
/y TO THE GROUND, BABY !
Nice macro, eh ?
Impulse Oct 27th 2008 5:50AM
do you realize your opponent won't understand the yell unless you're dueling, right?
peagle Oct 27th 2008 9:08AM
I think that comes out as "I love a good nerfing!" in Orcish.
Rastas Oct 27th 2008 5:35AM
I've never played a ret pally, tho my main is a paladin (full epic, holy). I only started after BC was published, so mine is a limited view.
I was happy that at least one sort of pally had some dps, even if we all knew it couldn't last. I was never really bothered by the fact that the time used to kill something around my own level was counted in minutes, but I understand how some people might be. I wasn't bothered, because I had nothing to compare with.
Well, that was then.
Then I started leveling my arcane mage alt. And my view of the word 'dps' changed. Of course I knew holy pally dps sucks big time (still does), but it had never really dawned on me how much. Even my priest alt kills things easier than my pally at her level. She can solo quests I had enormous trouble with before.
It took me 24 days /played to ding 70 with my pally, without the slacking and profession grind maybe 20 days. With my mage I had 10 days with about the same amount of slack. Like the comparison? Most of the leveling on these both was done before the first exp nerf. Doesn't that sound like fun?
And if we think about the bgs... Well, I've always been free HK. Even if I had bubble. That might have something to do with my not-so-imba PvP skillz or the fact that Horde sucks in my battlegroup though ;p
So, what I'm really trying to say is that maybe we paladins were entitled to have some dps, weren't we? I do understand why to nerf it, but please try to keep the nerf bat off us innocent protadins and holys? It takes me double the time to do the isle dailies with full epic pally than with a green/blue mage. Is that really fair?
Matt Oct 27th 2008 5:54AM
heh, people who didn't see an enormous nerf incoming only have themselves to blaim for being dissapointed though.
if you truelly believed it was going to stay this way, you had another thing coming, and im saying this as someone who's loved ret for a long time. (even when it relied on autoattack every 10seconds)
This reminds me a lot when DK's were first represented in the beta, they were extremely OP too at first, and you could easily notice the high amount of people that suddenly stopped leveling their DK because it became 'more and more balanced'.
I'm happy i was able to play the class to its full potential for a little bit at least, sure we were overpowered, but it felt absolutely amazing being finally able to smack the living daylight out of people that have no other intention but to try & toy with you because you're "just a retardin". thanks for that at least.
TheKarmaPolice Oct 27th 2008 7:10AM
I saw a Prot Pally solo 6 level 75 elite guards ALL at once in shattrath (the undead guarding Putress)
ALL
AT
ONCE
he didn't go below 75% health, and no one was healing him apart from himself
Even a prot warrior couldn't do that
madgoat Oct 27th 2008 11:03AM
Thats what prot paladins do, ever heard of prot grinding? They do it because they stack block value so they don't take damage and seal/judge light for health. Learn how the class plays before crying, please.
obarthelemy Oct 27th 2008 7:10AM
A long time ago, in a far far away land ... blizzard shipped games when they were done. No longer.