Some Paladin nerfs to go live before 3.0.3

The changes that will go live are the 20% damage reduction to Seal of Command and its Judgement, as well as the reduction of Judgements of the Wise mana return from 33% of base mana to 15%. To further illustrate that the nerfs are intended for PvP, Ghostcrawler also happily announces that Seal of Blood / the Martyr will be un-nerfed to about "95% of where the (sic) used to be" in Patch 3.0.3. He says that, "hopefully this will compensate PvE Retadins for relying less on more expensive AE abilities that risk putting them out of mana."
The statements are curious on several points. In his lengthy response to the community, Ghostcrawler shot down accusations that the spec was being nerfed because of PvP by saying, "Ret PvE dps was also too high." If that's true, it's interesting that Blizzard is un-nerfing Seal of Blood / the Martyr. Both are PvE Retribution DPS Seals, and higher damage coefficients from the spells will result directly in higher DPS. This is good news, no question about it. It's just confusing.
To clarify, he says "relying less on more expensive AE abilities" -- which seems to indicate that Blizzard wants us to remove Consecration (and the now instant-cast Holy Wrath in demon and undead-infested raids) from our spell rotations. This ushers in awkward rotations where Consecration is asynchronous with our other cooldowns and not used every time it's up. At least, that's how I seem to read it. This means that Blizzard is aware that inserting Consecration into our spell cycle will run us OOM fairly quickly. In my opinion, this makes the change to Judgements of the Wise somewhat suspect for PvE.
It's also important to note that Blizzard still plans to nerf all the other Seals but Ghostcrawler says it will entail a lot more work so thus will be going live with Patch 3.0.3. When the hotfix finally comes -- likely patched in with the regular Tuesday maintenance -- I encourage all Retribution Paladins to test the changes extensively and report on -- not whine about -- them in the official forums. The more hard numbers we get from testing, the more hope we have of getting proper tuning and not just excessive nerfs. I'm extremely happy that Blizzard is active with fixing the class. It's the most responsive they've been to Paladins in a long time. I just wish it didn't feel so much like a mad scientist's experiment.
Filed under: Paladin, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Forums






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 8)
ironside Oct 27th 2008 11:07PM
What about arenas where we will be mana drained into the stone age?
SeanOr101 Oct 27th 2008 11:15PM
Then you suffer the same fate as any other mana using class.
Shrews Oct 27th 2008 11:29PM
Mana drains and burns are actually much more severe for ret paladins as they are running around with 0 int and very tiny mana pools. The concern is that divine plea and JotW will not be able to make up for the mana drains once we are running low.
Anyway, my main concern right now is how this affects prot and holy. Holy was already doing the worst DPS by far and is even worse with the Seal of Righteousness nerf. Prot which is also doing the lowest DPS and TPS of all the tanks has had it's main damage seal nerfed as well and the JoW nerf also means they will have to drink after almost all fights when soloing. I know these are DPS specs but blizz has stated they want all specs to be at least somewhat viable for soloing and paladins are far behind bother other healers and tanks in this aspect.
BitterCupOJoe Oct 27th 2008 11:27PM
Except, of course, that other mana using classes have a mana pool. Blizzard has said that ret paladins aren't supposed to be using int on their gear, instead relying on melee stats for damage and JotW for mana returns. A mana burn/drain tactic is more effective on ret paladins than on any other spec in the game.
BitterCupOJoe Oct 27th 2008 11:34PM
@Shrews: Agreed. My main on live is a holy paladin, and I am not looking forward to the leveling slog at all with only holy shock as a solid source of damage. I hate to do it, but unless they've addressed it by launch, I'm probably going to park my paladin for rested XP and play a DK up until they've put prot/holy paladins on a DPS level with their equivalents from other classes.
benny32 Oct 28th 2008 12:26AM
Also most other classes that are mana classes have the ability to either close range on the target or range nuke while the retadin just stumbles along after it like a turtle try to close for a stun of some kind. By the time we do close we have no mana.
Disturbed Oct 28th 2008 12:49AM
and the jotw nerf being so huge, pallies will not be able to use aoe in their pve rotation. a class is dead when it starves for mana. auto attack is boring.
map Oct 28th 2008 2:48AM
Four years and they still have no idea what to do with this class? I don't like pallies, but this is ridiculous.
Two people on my server got banned from forums today just for posting about how much is Blizz wrong about this class. This game is imo still in beta and we're paying for testing stuff for Blizzard.
I saw numbers, posts and combat logs today and this nerf is HUGE. There's like 50 great posts on Wow forums about incoming changes and why they won't fix anything, but Blizzard won't listen.
They're playing gods in their on world and we, players, are just their money cows.
It's sad. I like this game a lot, but I don't think I like Blizzard people anymore. People who think "nerf" is the right answer to all their problems.
bumble Oct 28th 2008 8:07AM
BitterCupOJoe: I suppose that means you should get used to:
a) the game changing over time
b) not every spec being easymode for Arena
Naix Oct 28th 2008 10:00AM
Welcome to the mana game.
DavidK Oct 27th 2008 11:27PM
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=11855820926&sid=2000&pageNo=2#20
Seal of PVEDPS is being unnerfed because with the damage nerfs, PVE Retadins need to use AOE spells on single targets in order to keep up competitive DPS. The design is that a few, baseline abilities should be able to be sustained over long periods of time, but that adding, say, Consecration to a rotation for higher DPS will cause mana issues.
Or something like that.
Zach Oct 27th 2008 11:27PM
Thanks for pointing this out, David. It's very strange, though. I guess they don't want Consecration in Retribution rotation. It's strictly for Protection now.
CursedSeishi Oct 28th 2008 12:04AM
Eh, I find that I dont need to use consencrate to be competitive though.
I stick with seal of command (though seal of blood seems viable now with the insta-FoLs), but I've managed to place competitively in most runs I've done without it.
During grulls, I placed around 8th for Dps doing what I do normally, and during a recent karazhan run, I placed 3rd for dps and for healing (there was only two healers though so it isn't surprising.
Though with the nerf to Command, I may have to leave it for Blood, a shame since command has always been my seal of choice, through thick or thin. :'(
Zach Oct 28th 2008 12:08AM
@CursedSeishi - The idea behind using Blood/of the Martyr is so OTHERS can heal you. Thus gaining mana back through Spiritual Attunement. Healing yourself through Art of War procs for FoL on yourself only activates the GCD and will set back your DPS somewhat when used at the wrong time. It also won't give you mana back.
Seal of Blood / of the Martyr is the Seal of choice for PvE because it gives consistent damage. SoC is bursty and (in the past) more prone to aggro. Consistency from SoB/M also delivers more DPS overall. The burst of SoC is more useful for PvP.
Using Consecration will improve your DPS greatly. It will also cost a lot of mana, unfortunately.
CursedSeishi Oct 28th 2008 12:22AM
Ahh, I usually use the insta-procs from art of war to heal anyone else if its needed, otherwise I save it. I also wait to use it till my other moves are in their cooldowns to make the best use of time.
When it comes to threat, I make sure to give the tank a good 5 or so seconds to build up aggro, the highest I've ever gotten according to the ingame threat meter is 50%, even after activating Avenging Wrath and my trinkets.
Rel Oct 28th 2008 12:28AM
pro-tip for all retadins, use SoB, and consecrate, your DPS will improve immensely, you'll be top 5 in meters no matter what, guarantee
Rel Oct 28th 2008 12:29AM
*until these nerfs go live, of course :P
kabshiel Oct 28th 2008 11:09AM
Basically Blizzard's just saying that a paladin who uses Consecrate in their DPS rotations is equivalent to a mage who spams Arcane Blast. They'll both raise your DPS, but also run you out of mana fast. Sometimes, as paladins will learn someday, you have to choose a suboptimal rotation in order to stay in the game.
Hyacin-TB Oct 27th 2008 11:28PM
Nevermind arenas ... life since 3.0.2 has been bliss for me PvE grinding my way to 70 ... it's the first time I haven't had to stop to drink after every damn fight (despite having wisdom seal and judgement up before) since I started playing this class, and it's about bloody time ... now they're going to go nerfing it so I'm back to my same slow grinding as before?? That's total BS ...
Dart Oct 27th 2008 11:57PM
I'd like to say, as a person with 2 70 Paladins on different servers.
Everyone else did it. Deal with it.