A plea on behalf of frustrated tanks everywhere
Several classes and specs have gotten "knockback" abilities as part of patch 3.02 and the game's transition to Wrath of the Lich King, and I've had fun watching these skills be deployed in battlegrounds to extensive and quite possibly evil use. It's pretty funny watching an elemental Shaman defend AB's lumber mill now, and the AV bridge? Even funnier.And yet...as I laughed, I started to cry inside, because I knew that these skills would also be deployed in 5-man groups and raids to much less amusing effect. And man, it's a real burden being right so often.
Now, 95% of the people I've pugged with since the patch went live have intuitively understood that skills like Typhoon, Blast Wave, and Thunderstorm are really intended for PvP and soloing use, and haven't used them at all. But there is that 5% that hauls them out at every available opportunity (or, if you're a mage in Alex Ziebart's guild, set up a specific Blast Wave rotation guaranteeing that the mobs will never be within 10 yards of the tanks, ever). Which, at least for the purpose of doing actual DPS, mystifies me. None of the skills, far as I can tell, are part of a Shaman, Mage, or Moonkin high-DPS rotation, so I can only assume that the player is simply using them for fun. Fun? Fun? We don't have fun in my groups. Or at least, we sure aren't by the 15th time a pull gets knocked out of position and a stray mob attracts the attention of another mob pack. This is, dare I say it, Not Fun.
It is fairly annoying to see mobs you're trying to build aggro on suddenly not be within range. Or, if you're a tankadin, outside of Consecration. Or, if you'll melee DPS, finding yourself trying to hit something that isn't there anymore. But I think my worst experience so far has been a pugged heroic Magisters' Terrace with a boomkin who was madly fond of Typhoon. As we all know from rather painful experience, the instance requires very careful pulling of caster mobs, line-of-sighting them around corners to force them to move into one position where they can all be tanked, and...huh? What just happened to my elegant little pull? Two melee mobs would come back to me; the three ranged mobs would stay ranged (as ranged mobs tend to do), but not within melee range of the others or themselves.
Ever seen a frantic bear? Not a pretty sight. I ran around like the proverbial chicken, taking additional damage from the melee mobs as my side and rear were exposed, trying to LOS the scattered caster mobs and realizing that I couldn't reposition the pull in such a way to get all of them to move again. "Patrol!" said the moonkin cheerfully.
I have literally never kicked a player from one of my 5-mans, but I came closer to doing it that night than I ever have. We finally succeeded in getting our boomkin to quit using Typhoon, but I'm sure our rogue's nerves were shot for the night, and mine were in the same state. After an ugly series of pulls clearing constantly-moving Sunwell trash, knockbacks have also been officially banned from my guild's raids, and other guilds on my server have enacted the same rule. Sort of. "Actually, I find it rather useful just to have an umbrella policy for these situations," said a guild leader friend of mine. "Annoy me and you're gone."
Save a tank's sanity. Be kind to your melee DPS. PvE knockbacks: JUST SAY NO.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Instances, Humor, Classes, PvP, Battlegrounds






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 4)
tacojuan Oct 31st 2008 6:11PM
with my main being a rogue, i really hate when mages run in on aoe pulls and blast wave. my cousin is a fire mage and he does this crap a lot and i flat out told him that if he does it again i'll never run with him again. he did that on every pull in the heroics we ran the few days after the 3.0 patch.
alway Nov 1st 2008 9:11AM
It does have its uses though. In ZA the other day, when running back in from a wipe to jana'lai, noone noticed a pat coming around the corner... He started hitting his drum, summoned 2 adds which killed 2 or 3 people. Luckily i blinked up and used blast wave to get him away from the drum before he could summon any more.
Woojii Oct 31st 2008 6:12PM
Well, i can speak for most ele shamans when i say we need to Thunderstorm every 45 seconds to keep mana up now that the potion chugging is gone. So yes, it is part of our rotation. Im not saying we should USE it on the mobs, but we do need to use it, and we cant 100% for sure make sure it dosnt hit mobs. Also, ive used it to knock adds INTO a pallys AoE so its not always bad. Also, it can save your healers from being one shot by a strong add that pulled. I know it can be anoying, but these skills DO have usefulness even in 5-mans and raids
Eric Oct 31st 2008 6:25PM
Where are you running out of mana? As an elemental shaman in T5/ZA with about 200 haste, I haven't found myself running out of mana in any of the patched content (I used a mana pot once during a Kael fight) with a CL/LB/LB rotation. I have found thunderstorm VERY useful, however, in instances where there is a large amount of trash. I'm not doing this in Hyjal, but in H MgT on the trash before Vexallus we just had our tank grab all the mobs, then I fire elemental + Elemental mastery + thunderstorm and watched recount tell me I was doing godly dps. :-D
Woojii Oct 31st 2008 6:32PM
Well, it could have something to do with the fact i tend to off-heal alot too, but ive just started T6 raids so i have some T6 epics mixed in with alot of T5/badge ones. My mana dosnt go down fast, but im still never at full mana when thunderstorm is up so i use it anyways. im using FS/CL/LB/LB rotation and ive never run out of mana with thunderstorm yet so its working fine.
Scott Oct 31st 2008 7:48PM
Say WHAT? Your gear msut be total crap then. I can go just over 3 minutes at maximum burn (save for heroism) with just my totems.
That's without a BOW or Replenishment or anything else to recover mana.
Zarfay Oct 31st 2008 8:23PM
Mana tide/Mana totem + water shield (with both aditional glyphs) = no mana problems unless the fight goes too long.
Angus Oct 31st 2008 8:36PM
To all the haters:
So far, Elemental are the nicest of the bunch.
They tend to hang back with the healer and if a mob comes looking to kill the healer I sometimes see a thunderstorm knocking it into my range.
Mages...
GAWD
Could you guys stop using BLAST WAVE?!?!?
I have a rotation. If I miss a move, I have to go to the next one or skip something and 2 of my moves NEED to be done. So your stupid knock back not only knocked them out of consecrate, but the last Hammer just failed to land and so my AE threat is now crap. Thanks. And when I have to stun the mob coming after you for going nuts on a mob I haven't managed to touch in the last 10 seconds thanks to your stupid knockback, you ask my why I can't hold threat.
So, for the love of the Light and all that is good, STOP EFFING DOING THIS TO ME!
/end tankadinrage
Matthew Rossi Oct 31st 2008 10:56PM
If you cannot get out of range to use Thunderstorm without knocking back the mobs, don't use it. EVER.
As a shaman and a MT, if you did that shit in my run or raid, you'd be gone.
doma Nov 1st 2008 7:48AM
As a raiding ele shaman, I-
a) don't use TS at all in raids
b) I didn't even spec into it because
c) we don't need it yet.
If you are running out of mana post-3.0.2, consider respeccing to take advantage of talents besides TS, or stack crit. At this point- with only 61 talent points to spare, you're better of not taking it to begin with.
Really. You're better off not taking it.
Better to be mana efficient than to blow extra talents just to get a moderately useful spell with a potentially dangerous knockback effect. Consider these talents to improve your longevity in a fight:
Unrelenting storm
Ancestral Knowledge (works nicely w/ US)
Shamanistic Focus (If you use shocks in your rotation for godsakes shave points to reach this talent)
Thundering strikes (Crit is
Doma Nov 1st 2008 7:53AM
also consider glyph of lightning bolt- 10% off mana cost to your main nuke spell adds up to a hell of a lot in raids.
SeanOr101 Oct 31st 2008 6:13PM
A Paladin Tank in my guild said he didn't mind me using Blastwave on trash, with conditions.
I use it at the max range so the mobs all get knocked back in the same direction, and only after consecration has been up long enough that his aggro is solidified. As consecration is running out, I blast wave, he takes a few steps forward and re-consecrates. Even the casters are still tight to the melee and all are still in consecration.
But I agree, it is a Tank's desicion whether DPS should be using knockback. And, if so, the DPS must be extra aware when it is okay to use and not include it in regular rotations. (Watch the patrollers, knockbackers!)
Kup Oct 31st 2008 6:16PM
Easy fix, especially in a raid. Let the trash mobs wipe you. Stop tanking. After the wipe say they got knocked back outside of your aggro range and couldn't keep up. A few wipes should fix the problem.
Abscynth Oct 31st 2008 6:34PM
So I'm not the only one who finds this irritating...I hate it when someone blows my target out of my range and I have to run after it!
Buubies Oct 31st 2008 6:16PM
I´d totally have to agree, fire mage myself. Ifim out soloing stuff i dont really care when or where i use it.
But when running an instance, i have a firm rule, i never use it unless its the final hit for a mob.
Get annoyed extremly when im preparing a Flame Strike, followed by Flame Breath, to use a instant Fire Strike afterwards... only to have a moonkin destroy the whole plan by sending the enemies away from all the glorios AoE coming in. Makes me wana cry sometimes, so i feel it for the tanks also.
Dan Oct 31st 2008 6:17PM
When used right these abilities can actually be very useful for raids and 5mans. If the tank is getting close to dying knocking back all the mobs attacking him can give the healers a few extra seconds to bring them back up to full health.
Of course I imagine used the wrong way they can be a nightmare. Luckily no one in my guild seems to be that stupid :).
d3z Oct 31st 2008 6:22PM
Dont for get the flag in EoTS, I love knocking people of the edge there :D
Alkaios Oct 31st 2008 6:19PM
"I have literally never kicked a player from one of my 5-mans"
We're playing the same game right? Because unless every single one of your 5 mans are made up of guildies, I find that hard to believe...
Half my PuGs in the past have been wipefests, and as a party leader, you need to be able to kick scrub players who, for some reason, can't follow directions. Imo it's better for the person, because they put more effort into the game, and it's better for the group.
If paladins even HAD a knockback, I'd be happy.
Saeverud Oct 31st 2008 6:20PM
Typhoon and Blastwave aren't too bad as they don't get knocked out of my Consecration area. But what it does do it force me to move and reposition myself so that I'm actually in front of the mob. It's incredibly annoying and semi-dangerous to have a mob knocked behind you where you can't block, dodge or parry.
Doing it in say Strat or Scholo when you have 50-60, low level mobs on you isn't too bad. But when you've pulled two or three groups of trolls in ZA and all of a sudden you're no longer avoiding most of the attacks. It usually means a wipe.
Kup Oct 31st 2008 6:50PM
Remember consecrate is now secondary threat, hammer requires melee range and chasing down a mob to keep up my threat rotation is horrible.