A plea on behalf of frustrated tanks everywhere
Several classes and specs have gotten "knockback" abilities as part of patch 3.02 and the game's transition to Wrath of the Lich King, and I've had fun watching these skills be deployed in battlegrounds to extensive and quite possibly evil use. It's pretty funny watching an elemental Shaman defend AB's lumber mill now, and the AV bridge? Even funnier.And yet...as I laughed, I started to cry inside, because I knew that these skills would also be deployed in 5-man groups and raids to much less amusing effect. And man, it's a real burden being right so often.
Now, 95% of the people I've pugged with since the patch went live have intuitively understood that skills like Typhoon, Blast Wave, and Thunderstorm are really intended for PvP and soloing use, and haven't used them at all. But there is that 5% that hauls them out at every available opportunity (or, if you're a mage in Alex Ziebart's guild, set up a specific Blast Wave rotation guaranteeing that the mobs will never be within 10 yards of the tanks, ever). Which, at least for the purpose of doing actual DPS, mystifies me. None of the skills, far as I can tell, are part of a Shaman, Mage, or Moonkin high-DPS rotation, so I can only assume that the player is simply using them for fun. Fun? Fun? We don't have fun in my groups. Or at least, we sure aren't by the 15th time a pull gets knocked out of position and a stray mob attracts the attention of another mob pack. This is, dare I say it, Not Fun.
It is fairly annoying to see mobs you're trying to build aggro on suddenly not be within range. Or, if you're a tankadin, outside of Consecration. Or, if you'll melee DPS, finding yourself trying to hit something that isn't there anymore. But I think my worst experience so far has been a pugged heroic Magisters' Terrace with a boomkin who was madly fond of Typhoon. As we all know from rather painful experience, the instance requires very careful pulling of caster mobs, line-of-sighting them around corners to force them to move into one position where they can all be tanked, and...huh? What just happened to my elegant little pull? Two melee mobs would come back to me; the three ranged mobs would stay ranged (as ranged mobs tend to do), but not within melee range of the others or themselves.
Ever seen a frantic bear? Not a pretty sight. I ran around like the proverbial chicken, taking additional damage from the melee mobs as my side and rear were exposed, trying to LOS the scattered caster mobs and realizing that I couldn't reposition the pull in such a way to get all of them to move again. "Patrol!" said the moonkin cheerfully.
I have literally never kicked a player from one of my 5-mans, but I came closer to doing it that night than I ever have. We finally succeeded in getting our boomkin to quit using Typhoon, but I'm sure our rogue's nerves were shot for the night, and mine were in the same state. After an ugly series of pulls clearing constantly-moving Sunwell trash, knockbacks have also been officially banned from my guild's raids, and other guilds on my server have enacted the same rule. Sort of. "Actually, I find it rather useful just to have an umbrella policy for these situations," said a guild leader friend of mine. "Annoy me and you're gone."
Save a tank's sanity. Be kind to your melee DPS. PvE knockbacks: JUST SAY NO.
Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, PvP, Instances, Humor, Classes, Battlegrounds
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Reader Comments (Page 2 of 4)
Codexx Nov 3rd 2008 10:16PM
My guild, and many groups, have yet to say they have a problem with it. Blast Wave is not part of a high DPS rotation with the exclusion of AoE situations, where it adds some more DPS, stuns them, and gets them some distance away from me.
What this boils down to is, nobody on my server has said they have a problem with it. I like using it. I will not use it in risky situations where I may end up pulling more.
Calm down, and let people enjoy their new toys.
PS: I knocked someone off the bridge in AV. It was awesome.
Verymad Oct 31st 2008 6:22PM
Well probably not in raids. But in these nerfed heroics.. i don't rly care. Heroics are Soooooo easy now that we just pally arround with trash and dungeon mechanics...
Blast Wave FTW and if something gets near u after the BW just hope Hot Streak porcs and u can one-shot him with a Instant-Pyro
Heilig Oct 31st 2008 8:14PM
Thank you for illustrating the article so clearly. You are exactly the kind of person tanks hate. If it's so easy for you, you should probably just go solo the place and we'll replace you with someone else.
Poder Oct 31st 2008 6:22PM
Nice pic, I had no idea Sarah Palin played WoW!!! You should feature her on the next '15 minutes'.
Armath Oct 31st 2008 8:30PM
That's not Palin! Caribou Barbie would use a shotgun!
:-)
Tankin Oct 31st 2008 6:23PM
As someone with all three current tank types, I have to agree that the knockbacks can cause headaches. For the clueless members of my groups, I subscribe to the rule, "You took aggro, you tank it."
As a fire mage that has partied with an elemental shaman, we both found it to be very helpful to communicate the knockbacks. You know what it's like to not have mobs to melee, but watching them scatter as you go to Arcane Explosion or Blast Wave is rather frustrating. If timed right, you can get mobs to be knocked back *and* in a Frost Nova. Not easy, but entertaining.
TiM Oct 31st 2008 9:42PM
As a boomkin I use typhon sparingly on trash. Mianly when i see a healer mob casting a heal. Can't heal when you're flying through the air. Thanks fully most bosses are immune to the knock back effect. And yes AV bridge + Horde rush + shadowmelded druid + typhoon = awesome
Balius Nov 1st 2008 3:13AM
At least until Blizzard notices that the bases are still not even, and that the new knockback gives the alliance a clear advantage with the only entrance being a bridge. Horde have been complaining about that since the beginning, and your trick may well finally convince Blizzard to change it.
slimj091 Nov 1st 2008 4:40AM
"At least until Blizzard notices that the bases are still not even, and that the new knockback gives the alliance a clear advantage with the only entrance being a bridge. Horde have been complaining about that since the beginning, and your trick may well finally convince Blizzard to change it."
conversely a well placed typhoon from a horde boomchicken can knock the entire alliance defense to their deaths at the bridge.
Thinking Mouse Oct 31st 2008 6:24PM
Speaking as a fire PvE mage, I confess to the use of Blast Wave. Now, don't get me wrong I know its damn annoying (my alt is a tank druid) but it is needed in a mage's high dps aoe rotation. If there is a group of atleast 6 mobs all at once that cannot be controlled the situation merits the use of AoE abilities usually (depends how elite they are) to remove them quickly. The best rotation for this is an opening Flamestrike, run in and Dragon's Breath, if that procs World in Flames a second instant cast Flamestrike, then the only logical follow up for a fire mage is blast nova. Arcane Explosion isn't as high dps, Blizzard isn't as high dps, everything else is cooling down, so Blast Wave is the logical move.
If you can think up a rotation that does as high dps without the knockback then please tell me, and quote numbers, but unfortunatly Blast Nova is a lot stronger than AE for a fire specced mage trying to AoE.
Kup Oct 31st 2008 6:55PM
If that is how you PvE I hope we are never on the same server...
Speedmonkay Oct 31st 2008 7:20PM
Well sometimes it isnt all about high dps. Sometimes it is about control. The main point of the article is that the knockbacks are making it hard for tanks to control mobs at times.
I would rather have someone on my raid with slightly lower dps with awesome control than someone who lacks control and does whatever he has to have the highest dps.
SeanOr101 Oct 31st 2008 7:56PM
DB and BW don't proc World in Flames, they proc Firestarter for the instant Flamestrike. Sorry to be picky, but I pride myself as a PvE Fire mage as well...
Heilig Oct 31st 2008 8:19PM
I have an awesome rotation you should use:
Thunder Clap/Shockwave/Cleave/Thunder Clap
Another option would be:
Avenger's Shield/Hammer of the Righteous/Consecration
Or, if you prefer:
Demo Roar/Swipe/Swipe
I really think those rotations would work better for out of control mobs than your high DPS AoE rotation.
Varris Oct 31st 2008 6:26PM
Like everything, it can be usefull or a hinderance. I'll only use Typhoon in a group if the tank says he's okay with it or in pulls where it's supposed to be all out aoe.
Aaron Oct 31st 2008 6:27PM
It's only going to get worse, dps are doing knockbacks on mobs that approach me before I have a chance to Shockwave then tclap. Understand this: Shockwave only has a ridiculous short frontal range and some 90 degree radius effect, not 180. Allow the tank to bunch them up nicely to shockwave before attempting to do anything retarded. :p
rick gregory Oct 31st 2008 6:29PM
Which is why the tank I level up will be a Death Knight... Death Grip ya know... :P
Morcego Oct 31st 2008 6:32PM
When playing a boomkin, I actually found 1 situation where the Typhoon is valid on a raid. Consider you are behind a healer, and notice a mob running toward said healer. A moonfire + typhoon + wrath is a very useful combo to keep that mob off the healer. The typhoon will give you time to cast wrath, while allowing the moonfire to tick one more time (and with Glyph of Moonfire, that makes a huge difference). Protecting healers is always a priority.
But i keep typhoon very far away from my normal rotation keys. It is extremely situational, and should only be used when you know exactly what you are doing.
As a tank (I dualspec bear/boomkin), I have certainly seen how annoying a misplaced knockback can be.
Lets face it. The issue here is not knockback. It is bad players. With or without knockbacks, they can cause a wipe. How many hunter pets pull aggro from the tank ? Or healers that only start healing when you are at 10% health ? Or some stupid dps'er that can't watch his own threat. Knockback is just a little more of the same stuff.
kirkfrey Oct 31st 2008 6:34PM
After returning to my fire mage after the patch, I was disappointed to find that Blast Wave, once of key part of the fire mage's aoe rotation is now no longer viable because of the knockback. I had not infact realized it had a knockback until the tank pointed it out. It does help in pvp, but fire was and is not a pvp spec.
So if your fire mage does Blastwave, give them the benefit of the doubt and let them know about the problem before kicking them. They have to unlearn what was once the correct way of doing things.
Ryax Oct 31st 2008 7:05PM
I am not a tank, however I do play a Mage and I must say I find this just as annoying. I was PuGing MgT heroic the other day with another mage (I have T4/crafting gear, he had T6) and I must say that when he was doing Blast wave it not only made the tank's job harder, but everybody else's.
When trying to explain to him about that he called me a noob and it's really nice to find somebody else who agrees with me.
The tank's job is one of, if not the hardest job in an instance and anything that makes that more difficult is not acceptable. Hopefully in Wrath this will help clear the herd in terms of mages who like to do this as they simply won't be invited into groups and raids and people like me (deep fire and knows how to use it in pve) will get invited even more.
Thank you Allison Robert!