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All of the latest Mists of Pandaria newsSharpening Stones, Mana Oils gone in Wrath
by Eliah Hecht 
Oct 31st 2008 at 9:00AM
It didn't really hit me until I saw this post about it, but there are no sharpening stones, weightstones, or mana or wizard oils in Wrath of the Lich King. Verimonde, a blue name that's unfamiliar to me, confirms that this is by design, saying "While they were something nice to use once in a while for most people for many raid guilds they were simply another burden to the cost of raiding." This is essentially my reaction to the change, although some other Insiders are of the opinion that it's another step in the oversimplification of WoW. I'm happy that typical raid consumables will be down to flasks and food.There's another problem with this plan, though. Unless they remove the current stones and oils, progression-oriented raiders are going to be running back to Outland and farming up the mats for old stones and oils all the time. This is nothing new really; dedicated raiders have been going to great lengths for buffs since the days of mind-controlling fire resistance off UBRS mobs to go to MC and BWL. Still, I don't think it's what Blizz had in mind in removing them, so my bet is that old stones/oils will either be removed, or prevented from working on players over level 70 (like the Riding Crop).
Update: Looks like they went the latter route. Stones/oils will not work on post-70 items.
Filed under: Raiding, Wrath of the Lich King
Reader Comments (Page 4 of 6)
D.O.T. Oct 31st 2008 10:00AM
While I have oils and stones on my characters, I just never remember to use them. So I'm not exactly sure which way to see this. It's good for less items, but for people who want that extra bit added to their stuff, it would seem like a bad thing.
InnaJungleStylee Oct 31st 2008 9:52AM
I find it amusing that they did this right after they finally added a "Create All" feature to the enchanting interface. At long last, I was able to make multiple oils for friends without having to manually click it each time...for the one week this is relevant. (insert sad trombone noise)
D.O.T. Oct 31st 2008 9:55AM
Kinda of strange that the current world event gives oils and stones as rewards then...
What a waste of turn ins for players who have everything.
mux Oct 31st 2008 9:57AM
I do not like this change as to be honest those sharpening stones are the only thing i have used blacksmithing for in months, there was very little high level items to craft in blacksmithing for a prot warrior. I know we will get to be able to add sockets to items in wrath with blacksmithing but it is just one less thing we can use. I find them very helpful for leveling.
Malkie Oct 31st 2008 12:02PM
It does seem that raiding is becoming simpler and simpler. On one hand this is great - more people will raid. On the other hand, it's this level of detail that made it interesting for me.
Plus, we wont NEED 25 raiders in order to see the content, so having more raiders wont be as important.
Angelus Oct 31st 2008 10:03AM
I'm really tired of this. A casual-friendly MMO is one thing. But when you just start removing everything that let's the dedicated players stay a few steps ahead of the casual players, it's just more and more annoying.
Yes...I do believe if you put the time and effort into something, you should be able to shine more than those that choose not to. That's pretty basic, but it seems that now everyone is stuck on the idea of keeping everything equal and boring.
I'm not a hardcore player either, I just like to go that extra step when possible. While this change in itself isn't the biggest thing, it's just one in a long line of changes that just make things feel cheap.
Danel Oct 31st 2008 10:16AM
But shouldn't dedicated players still be able to stay ahead through knowledge and skill? That makes more sense than just having a bunch of hoops to jump through - which, as some commenters have claimed, all good raiding guilds will have huge stocks of anyway.
Lightspell Oct 31st 2008 10:04AM
I don't see this as a terribly significant change. As has been pointed out their cost is trival compared to flasks. What it really comes down to is they are a 'filler' buff. At the moment they are pretty much required for progression raiding, and all they do is add more damage/healing to that character's weapon, so why not make the extra power part of the weapon in the first place?
Using stones and oils requires no 'skill' - their use is a false choice - you either buff your damage/healing or dont, so claims that their removal is 'dumbing down' raiding are silly. What this is doing is removing an unnesessary concern from raiding. This means I can spend a little less time worrying about farming mats, having enough consumerbles to last the raid, and remembering to reaply them; and focus more on the actual decision making and skill part of raiding.
This is why flasks and food can still work (to some extent) - unlike stones and oils you have options. Do I use stam food for this fight or dps food? Do I use a pure damage/heal flask or a stamina one, or a resistance one, or do I use a combination of elixers? The choice of what flask and food to use actually requires some knowledge on behalf of the raider, stones and oils do not.
Unfortunatly the choices to be made when it comes to food and flasks are still very limited, and often come down to simply using standard +primary-stat one for your roll anyway. So there is still improvement to be made in this reguard too. I would hope to see more variety in these buffs. For instance the choice between a spellpower+stam flask and a spellpower+mp5 flask would require a little more consideration (i.e. 'skill') on behalf of the raider than a straight up +damage flask.
I guess the argument could also be made that stones/oils could also be given these choices. Though it would depend on the amount of variety attainable from food and flask combinations as to whether a third consumerble type would be nesessary.
dawnseven Oct 31st 2008 12:18PM
I'm not really sure what harm is/was done by throwing mana or wizard oil into your list of considerations here? You like the option of being able to choose this or that kind of flask or this or that kind of food, which is fine, but if you use an mp/5 or spell damage oil all that does is give you the ability to make different flask and/or food choices, yes? I don't think oils have a negative impact on the choice of flasks and food. You feel favorably toward flasks and food because there is a variety to choose from, but because there are only 2 kinds of oil they don't do it for you? :D
Also ... "all they do is add more damage/healing to that character's weapon, so why not make the extra power part of the weapon in the first place?"
I think you could take this argument too far. If you have a problem with weapon buffs then a lot of enchants should go. And taken further, why have any kinds of buffs at all. If you going to scrap weapon enchants of any kind then armor enchants should go too, etc.
Eternauta Oct 31st 2008 10:08AM
Maybe I'll be hated for this, but to be honest, I really like the new raiding philosophy Blizz has taken. It's very less stressful (a.k.a easier). However, I think they have reached the perfect level of difficulty, and they should stop simplification now. It's ok as it is now.
P.S: Screw those masochistic old school Molten Core hardcore raiding guilds. If raiding was like that, I would quit wow.
Logik Oct 31st 2008 10:16AM
So basically they added vellums so enchanters would stop crying about not being able to sell their wares easily, simply to remove one of the staples of our usefullness to raids. thanks.
Ragnarocket Oct 31st 2008 10:23AM
I love how everyone is crying over this change. Does anyone think for even a second that if they decide to remove this that maybe...just maybe we won't require them for the fights in WotLK? And enchanters are gonna be fine...the vellums make your enchants alot more profitable.
crsh Oct 31st 2008 10:44AM
Enchanting is not getting much love; the vellums will allow them to sell enchants on the AH, but there will be a lot more price competition that it'll suffer the same fate as crafting professions: raw mats will be worth more than the auctionnable/crafted item.
Ring enchants are still lacking, actually have you looked at Wrath enchants? It's the same stuff, just "Greater"/"Super"/"Exceptional", adding 3-6 points of stats over current enchants, still no decent cloak enchants for casters, etc.
In the end, enchanters will still be your DEing bot in 5/10/25-mans, that's about it.
Fletch Oct 31st 2008 11:02AM
@Ragnarocket
Yes, I have considered that they removed them because they are no longer needed. Indeed, it is arguable that they were ever truly needed for success. However, that wasn't the reason they gave for their removal. The stated goal was to save on the cost of raiding. There are two problems with this: firstly the items didn't cost much anyway; secondly removing them will arguably cost the raid more money in repairs because for progression content it will reduce the dps/healing/regeneration available and thus increase the number of wipes. Given the cost of repairs (and reapplication of potions/elixirs which do not persist through death) far outweighs that of oils, the aim to reduce raiding cost is doubtful.
We can only go by what the developers are saying rather than try to invent our own reasons for the change. If they say that the reason for the change is to reduce the cost of raiding, we have to assume that that is what they are intending. Unfortunately, I don't think they will meet their aim with this change. Quite the reverse in fact.
crsh Oct 31st 2008 10:20AM
All we're supposed to care about are achievements, arenas and mount/title rewards, right?
Northrend is starting to look like a very bland and generic place.
Salty Oct 31st 2008 10:21AM
That is a good point. I guess these are only for the event. What a waste...
- Naxx is gone, the only undead instance that would merit its use.
- The undead invaders are weaklings, why would anyone need consumables to kill them?
- I've already got my tabard, my pet pally and a substantial stack of Necrotic Stones, I don't need to farm them anymore so...
What?
superfrank Oct 31st 2008 10:48AM
if you were still on kara they would be useful to you
Mark Oct 31st 2008 10:24AM
I was glad to see your final sentence. For those of us still questing in Desolace, those sharpening stones are a lifesaver.
evankimori Oct 31st 2008 9:20PM
You sir, are a masochist. I hate that place with a passion. Kudos to you for questing in that zone.
I'd rather Dustwallow personally. Desolace...ugh...*shudder*.
Agent StanSmith Oct 31st 2008 10:42AM
The thing is, it wasn't really a burden to begin with.
Me 30 minutes before raid: oh, crud. I don't have any sharpening stones. *flys just outside of shattrath and mines the node of adamantite that's always by the fishing daily, flys back to the forge, makes enough sharpening stones for the night* No burden at all.
As a fury warrior, I used these on my OH so that I got the benefit of both the shaman totems and the stone.