Rogue changes in patch 3.0.3
by Eliah Hecht 
Nov 4th 2008 at 5:40PM
- Combat Potency now only works on auto-attacks (i.e. not Shiv). I think we can agree that all the shivving was getting pretty silly.
- Fan of Knives is castable if you don't have a target, looks prettier, and no longer plays an impact on the caster. It also benefits from Find Weakness, and its cooldown was reduced to 10 sec.
- Instead of making the rogue untargetable, Killing Spree now causes all players to lose targeting on the rogue and causes the rogue to be unstoppable during its duration.
- Riposte's effect duration is no longer reduced by effects that reduce disarm duration.
- Shadow Dance no longer increases the cooldown on various abilities that require stealth (Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pick Pocket, and Disarm Trap). Feel free to Ambush as much as you have energy for, but don't get too attached to cooldown-free
swirly ballDisarm Trap; that's getting nerfed for sure.
Update: missed one: Glyph of Shiv replaced with Glyph of Vigor, which gives 10 more extra energy if you have Vigor.
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 2)
Myk Nov 4th 2008 5:45PM
Well, they have been a little weak lately. Hopefully this change will balance things out.
Realitycheck Nov 4th 2008 5:49PM
The changes are horrid... The 51 pointers are dump to the point that noone takes em. The relentless strikes "buff" made it actually worse than it was. Subtlety havent been touched since months. Combat is useless for pvp, Subtlety is useless for both pve and pvp, Mutilate is kited to oblivion in pvp and works in PvP.
Fan of knives is doing the same damage as a lvl 70 hunters Volley at 80. You can use it to kill snake traps but thats it really.
Its B A D.. with capital letters, and on the forums GC posted some stuff that proves that they actually have no idea about the class.
Read and be horrified: http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=12065200908&sid=1
Deathgodryuk Nov 4th 2008 9:21PM
Have you played a rogue post 3.0? It doesn't look like it.
I originally specc'ed Assassination after 3.0 and instantly discovered how fun it was to play pve. In PvP, sure Assassination rogues are kiteable, that just means you have to play smarter.
I switched to Combat because my daggers sucked and I was doing horrible damage in raids but was worried about my PvP viability because of all of the bellyaching I'd heard about how bad Combat was at PvP. As someone who played combat before the patch I can say that the improvements are remarkable. I may not have all of the neat little bells and whistles that make Assassination and Subtlety ideal for PvP but my shear ability to DESTROY pretty much anyone makes up for it. Combat's damage with Blade Flurry, Adrenaline Rush, and now Killing Spree is truly remarkable and the ability to kill someone in the time it takes to cheapshot then 3/4 pt. kidneyshot makes it a very viable pvp spec. It doesn't do as well against other melee classes but as GC said in that thread, that is a concern that Bliz is watching and will most likely change in time.
As for Subtlety sucking at PvP, I urge you to talk to anyone who is not a Sub Rogue. I'd bet money that they would tell you otherwise.
All in all I think Blizzard remains the most responsive and community-oriented company I have ever had the pleasure of dealing with and it doesn't take faith for me to believe that they will continue to make Rogue a fun class to play.
banned by WI Nov 4th 2008 5:49PM
you missed the biggest change!!
glyph of vigor. 10 more energy dood!!
pudds Nov 5th 2008 9:03AM
Probably good for PvP burst, but in PvE, it (and vigor) are a waste. Since the extra energy doesn't affect regen rate, that 20 energy is only useful during an opening attack chain. After that, you shouldn't be capping out your energy, so 120 energy is no better than 100.
Icarius Nov 4th 2008 5:50PM
Any news on the Vigor glyph? I haven't seen one live on the server, but the patch notes refer to the Shiv glyph changing to Vigor in this patch.
Sean Riley Nov 4th 2008 5:59PM
I'm no scholar of mechanics but... couldn't killing spree now be basically beaten with a tab press?
Zack Nov 4th 2008 7:39PM
Technically, yes. But Killing Spree puts the rogue behind them, so they have to turn around before hitting tab in order to target the rogue.
Kaeb Nov 5th 2008 9:16AM
Also means you can AoE a killing spree rogue. How does frost nova impact it?
Am I going to be forced to cloak of shadows before I throw killing spree near a mage?
edenxiii Nov 5th 2008 10:40AM
I'm not sure if this is a bug, but I've noticed that when frost nova'd during killing spree i still teleport to the target. I'm still stuck in place as far as normal movement is concerned, but I pop into melee range for all 5 hits still.
Byamim Nov 4th 2008 6:43PM
The patch notes didn't say Riposte's disarm effect, but just Riposte's effect, will no longer be affected by stuff that reduces disarm duration - this means that the Riposte effect had been left as a disarm effect, and they fixed that.
Lemons Nov 4th 2008 7:11PM
Ah...finally the rogue article. I've been waiting all day...not that I didn't know any of this stuff...I just wanted to see the rogue article...cause I like to read about rogues...
And as far as that disarm trap thing...that is da bomb.
Although you'd have to be pretty clever to use it. Most hunters just throw a trap directly beneath you so you scarcely have time to blink, let alone shadow dance and disarm trap, before you're frozen. But the next time a hunter throws down a trap I will definitely try it.
Zack Nov 4th 2008 7:17PM
I've tried out all 3 of the different specs over the last few days and I actually think sword combat rogues have gotten the biggest benefit out of the expansion changes. Killing Spree is awesome in PvP in combination with Sword Spec, and it has all kinds of weird uses. I use it on rogues that stun me. As soon as the stun wears off, I can flip over them and suddenly have the advantage. If you turn it on while immobilized, it works anyway (w/o freeing you from the immobilization for some odd reason), which means death for frost mages. If you turn it on when someone is sprinting away or riding or just plain moving fast, you will continuously follow them, leaping "through the shadows" every half second and hitting them. I'm more leery of it getting nerfed than anything else.
As for the other specs, I agree that Shadow Dance isn't impressive. It allows you to Cheap Shot someone in mid-combat, then Ambush them again, but it's pretty awkward and doesn't seem to last long enough. The new cooldown might help though. Hunger for Blood is even more underwhelming. It eats up both your energy and your concentration if you try to keep track of it in battle. Cut to the Chase is cool but it only helps in long fights, like boss fights. Lastly, some people have reported huge crits with mutilate but the results seem pretty tame to me. Sure it crits for over 3k, but it also eats energy, just like HfB. Only combat rogues have the luxury of ample, constant energy.
Parting thought: Asassination rogues got screwed in another way: Honor among Thieves is exactly the same as Seal Fate except it costs fewer talent points and it works for the whole party.
Ryan Nov 4th 2008 8:03PM
This combat/mace rogue is definitely keeping Killing Spree for leveling in Wrath- combined with Blade Flurry, it's almost a guaranteed kill for any two mobs of my level, which is fantastically useful.
Claud Nov 6th 2008 8:45AM
"Instead of making the rogue untargetable, Killing Spree now causes all players to lose targeting on the rogue and causes the rogue to be unstoppable during its duration."
was rather annoying using killing spree live then to get hammer of justiced...
"Shadow Dance no longer increases the cooldown on various abilities that require stealth (Sap, Garrote, Ambush, Cheap Shot, Premeditation, Pick Pocket, and Disarm Trap)." Nerf shadow dance pickpocket.
"Glyph of Shiv replaced with Glyph of Vigor, which gives 10 more extra energy if you have Vigor."
So with the glyph, Vigor and (4) season gear, you'll have 130 energy? SICK!
Khass Nov 5th 2008 6:48AM
(Possibly) Noob question - what's the deal with 'swirly ball' ? Seen it mentioned quite a few times, but I never figured it out. Rogues wanting a Lightning/Water Shield type buff?
Kaeb Nov 5th 2008 9:42AM
The original vanilla-wow Detect Traps was an active ability, not a passive skill. The spell effect was a swirly ball whenever you cast Detect Traps. It had no cooldown and was instant cast. non-rogues found it annoying. we LOVED us some swirly ball.
When detect traps was made passive we lost the ability to spam swirly ball.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLyokULgxXo
shoemanchris Nov 5th 2008 8:49AM
This Vigour glyph thing intrigues me... this means 120 energy? With appropriate gear (that gives +10 energy) does that make 130? Doesn't this actually answer Mutilate/Backstab rogues complaints about hi energy cost of their max damage openers/finishers, I mean a 20% and maybe 30% boost to the enegy pool has to help some? I keep hearing Mutilate is the way to go, and daggers are more fun than swords from a pure play point of view but...
I am a combat PvE rogue. KS does mean that I get a useful boost in PvP on the odd occasion I have my sorry backside dragged in there, but mostly it is just fun for PvE... blade flurry/KS finish on a single mob is truely devastating, plus if you are doing even heroic 5 mans with a decent pally tank the other 2 dps are almost decoration since the patch nerf!
Icarius Nov 5th 2008 9:58AM
Yep...130 energy with Vigor talent, the glyph, and the Merc set bonus. I hated Mut builds before the last patch, but now in PvP I am pwning and am actually enjoying BG for the first time in...well...ever really.
It's simply OK in instances. I ran Hyjal over the weekend and was not near the top of the DMG meter like normal, but still effective.
shoemanchris Nov 5th 2008 10:10AM
Am I weird? My main is a rogue and my guildies laugh at me because I hate BG's and I am not wild about duelling although arena with a couple of useful buddies is fun... but I love BGs on my mage!
It seems strange that I hate PvP on a class that others QQ about being OP but love it with a clothie class...
I love being knee deep in PvE mobs with my swords up a bosses jacksie, but in the BGs it is so much more fun to be at max range scattering fireballs or arcane bolts at preoccupied opposition trying to take down our warriors!