Officers' Quarters: Three questions for Wrath raiders

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.
With Wrath nearly in our hands, it's time for us as officers to go over a mental checklist and make sure we're adequately prepared for this expansion. (Please no Illidan jokes -- poor Arthas has no catchphrase and it only makes him angrier.)
I can't possibly tell you what should be on that checklist -- it all depends on the type of guild you run and what your guild's goals are. You do have goals, right?
However, here are three questions that you should start thinking about -- if you haven't already . . .
1. How will you distribute BOE raid drops?
Epic BOE raid drops aren't new. World bosses in Outland had their loot changed to BOE to encourage guilds to go after them. But it's been a long time since most guilds have had to deal with them on a regular basis -- not since Molten Core, if memory serves. They weren't too difficult to manage back then. With 40 people tagging along, odds are someone in the raid wanted whatever dropped. If not, the drops were all class-specific, so the number of people who could request them was relatively small.
But today, gear has changed significantly to maximize the number of possible specs who can use a particular item. Also, these epics will be dropping in 10-player raids where the chances of no one needed it are relatively high.
To me, no loot issue has a bigger potential for drama than this one. At first glance, it seems straightforward enough. If someone in the raids wants it, they should get it. And if no one does, you stick it in your most secure bank vault and put it up for grabs.
But I've done a whole lot of raiding over the past three years and I've seen the weird circumstances that can crop up over loot, so I don't think we're going to get off that easily.
What if someone brings an alt to a raid, but then a piece of gear drops that they really want for their main. Too bad? Maybe. What if you asked them to bring that alt because you needed a tank. Does that mean they get to roll for two different toons for the entire run?
What about off-specs? Should someone in the raid be able to take a BOE item for an off-spec over someone else's main who wasn't able to go? What if that person is parked outside, sacrificing his or her time in order to be ready when someone else needs to leave?
What if someone on an alt wants to roll on it for an off-spec while someone else's main wants to roll on it for an off-spec for their alt that the raid wasn't able to bring? An extreme example, but it illustrates just how complicated this can get.
And then there are the scenarios where no one in the raid wants the drop, so you bank it. But then who gets it? This is a much easier question to answer if you're in a small, close-knit guild or a guild based solely around progression. But for large, diverse guilds like mine, it's a real head-scratcher.
Do you offer it to the longest-tenured members first? The highest-ranking? The most active raiders? Should you disqualify someone from asking for it if they don't raid? These are questions my officers and I are struggling with right now. So I don't have easy answers for you.
Personally, I'm leaning toward raid participation being the biggest factor. That is, after all, where the drops come from, and it is where they will do the most good for the guild. If multiple players are equally active, you can always form a party and have them /random for it.
But even in this scenario there's potential for drama if someone wants to go to every raid, but you just don't have a slot for them every night. Also, the most active raiders are the least likely to need the drops in the first place.
Regardless of what you decide, make sure you have a policy in place before that first BOE drops.
2. Will you enforce raid participation over achievements?
Wrath brings with it a smorgasbord of new content (yes, that's how smorgasbord is spelled -- weird, huh?). At first, everyone is obviously going to gorge themselves on the new zones, quests, dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, arenas, etc. etc.
But some will reach a point where they're sated with what Northrend has to offer. They will want to go back to the nerfed raids of vanilla WoW and Outland to bang out their remaining raiding achievements.
Much will depend on where you are progression-wise versus available content. However, is achievement farming an acceptable reason to skip a Northrend farming run?
It seems like a reasonable thing to do. But if you allow it, it could become a slippery slope. Farming runs, as necessary as they are, become boring after a while, especially if you already have every drop you need in the zone and all the gear those badges can buy you. And achievements are a convenient excuse.
Not every guild needs to have a policy for this, but it could be a source of conflict down the road.
3. How will you integrate Death Knights into your raids?
When The Burning Crusade launched, all those Blood Elf paladins and Draenei shamans had a long way to go before they were ready to raid. By the time many of them got Kara attuned, others in the guild were ready to move beyond Karazhan into 25-player runs, so there were empty slots for those new hybrids to fill.
Death Knights present a more immediate problem. Sure, some will power-level their DKs to be ready when their guilds start raiding. But others will come along a few weeks after the other classes hit 80. Many guilds will still be in the process of learning Naxx at this time, with dedicated teams that have geared up and learned the early encounters.
All of a sudden you could have two or three Death Knights who want in on those runs. If you're raiding with 25, there's probably going to be room for them whenever others can't be there. But for guilds progressing down the 10-player path, it could be difficult finding space.
Again, I don't have an easy answer. I imagine that your guild already has policies in place to determine who gets a slot and who warms the bench. You're almost always better off sticking to your guns when it comes to policies like this rather than making too many exceptions. But if all your DKs are getting left in the dust, you might have to step in and get them into some raids. They're going to need the practice!
And that brings me to my next point: those playing DKs won't have nearly the experience with the class in a group environment that players of other classes do. They could certainly struggle with DPS or tanking in their inaugural raid. I would urge raid leaders not to be too hasty to bench them. You're going to want their buffs, debuffs, and utility sooner or later!
Has anyone come up with good solutions to these three issues? Please share them below!
I'm sure other problems will crop up that none of us can even anticipate right now. The best we can do is try to be flexible when necessary and inflexible when our rules matter most. Good luck to all the officers out there for a fun and drama-free Wrath of the Lich King!
/salute
Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)






Reader Comments (Page 1 of 3)
Kyle Nov 10th 2008 1:09PM
Interesting thoughts. These are questions that always bring me back to the fact "who" you recruit to your guild is so much more important than gear/spec/etc. People you trust and enjoy playing with make many of these questions unimportant...
But then again, I'm just a casual raider.
Mindaika Nov 10th 2008 1:14PM
I'm not sure we're prepared for Arthas.
(Sorry! It was too easy!)
Neil Nov 10th 2008 1:13PM
And what about BOAccount items? Seeing how almost everybody has one alt or another, those will certainly create some interesting dilemmas for guilds who aren't prepared for them.
Adamarius Nov 10th 2008 1:20PM
I believe that BOA items are bought with tokens earned through running dungeons, like today's Badges of Justice. BOA items are never a drop.
Alkaios Nov 10th 2008 1:14PM
IMO a player that rolls a DK should learn enough about either the DPS/Tanking element as they level from 55-80. Especially with phased DK area you start in, you have plenty of time to find your niche in the class (whatever tree you pick) and be raid-ready when you ding 80.
If you don't know a ton about the class, there's always someone out there that will. Reading up on your class (DK or otherwise) on sites like WoWInsider, MMO-Champion, Elitistjerks, etc. will make sure you're not the next lolraider when you get to end game content. I highly doubt a decent guild would hastily bench a DK over another member of an "established" class.
Mindbasher Nov 10th 2008 1:46PM
I agree with Alkaios. From reading nuanced discussion on how to properly play a class, you can top the dps (or whatever charts) after a couple hours of reading and a week or so of getting the correct gear.
My enhancement shaman was pwning the dps charts within 3 weeks of 70.
Greg Nov 10th 2008 5:06PM
I was underwhelmed at how much I knew of the DK class after finishing the starter area on the beta. You get so many abilities by the time you're finished, but unlike 1-70/80 levelling you don't get a whole lot of time to play around with them. That's what 58-80 is for, I believe.
Regardless, with DKs starting at 58 (for all intents and purposes) and Outland being a quick jaunt now, they'll likely be able to participate with most guilds assuming the guild is just lights out fast in getting to Naxx and beyond.
Killgannon Nov 10th 2008 1:18PM
#1 Do alts matter in your guild or main specs? Do you award people by how much they contribute? Things like that should be taken into consideration before you hand a boe to someone in my opinion. Otherwise you could sell it on the AH or keep it in gbank for someone who is forced to respec later because your only tank guild hopped.
#2 Depends on what your guild is all about. Personally we plan to knock out the content on raid nights, and farm badges, pvp, achievements on off nights.
#3 DK's will bring a ton of utility, at the price of inexperience. These players, unless theory crafted or played beta, have no clue what they are getting themselves into. And if you have people who plan on re rolling. Have them read into the class with what data we have. Otherwise until you can rotate them into your 10 man, I would suggest that they get as much practice as possible in 5 mans or heroics.
Lab Monkey Nov 10th 2008 1:20PM
While it may cause some headaches with more 'me me' players it's nice not to have to shard useful gear.
Wenadin Nov 10th 2008 1:23PM
As far as the BOE epics that nobody wants, my guild had a policy regarding items that don't bind (ie: Heart of Darkness). Anything that dropped like that would go to the raid leader, who would then place the item in the officer tab of the guild bank. Anyone who wanted said item would ask an officer who would sell the item to the person for 1/2 auction value. The money made would go into the guild bank for use for supplies the guild needs (we really needed that money when we decided to start making resistance sets for hydross and leotheras).
Pachypach Nov 10th 2008 1:23PM
As far as finding room for DK in the 10 man raids, my guild will most likely do what we did with kara. We started with 10-12 reliable raiders and as they progressed up and we cleared it with an understanding of each fight, we then started a second kara run for others that were not able to make it to the first. So we would have 2 karas running at the same time. It worked out well, we divided the officers between the two groups for leadership and strat on fights and it became a competition to see which group was gonna finish first, Alpha or Omega.
Moketronics Nov 10th 2008 2:31PM
I was in a guild that had an "alpha" and "bravo" group for kara early on in TBC, but it went VERY badly and caused the guild to split.
The "Alpha" group would constantly bogart both the best geared players and classes to make up an ideal group that would blast through kara in 2 nights, while the other group would be left stuck on some boss due to the lack of gear / experience / proper class balance.
This went on for awhile until the "Bravo" group (or "Reject Squad") got pretty POed after they did a 1 night clear having taken 4 over geared mages leaving the 2nd group with none and the members of the group were being particularly zealous in bragging about how elite they were in the following days.
There was some sort of big officer meeting and it was decided that the groups had to be balanced, but this went quite poorly. People from the 2nd group were made to feel like a charity cases ("noobs" to put it bluntly) when they went with the first group. After many hurt feelings and the guild being brought to the brink of falling apart, the RL from the first group gathered the best geared members around him and made a bid for taking over the guild so no one would force his group to be heald back by a 2nd group (regardless of us all needing to gear up to do 25 mans). The lot of them got booted, but it very seriously set back the guild.
Of course a 2 group system can work like above - but the balance is incredibly important. The new 10/25 man content split kind of changes how these issues could appear - but it's still something to be careful of.
Beli Nov 10th 2008 1:22PM
1. BOE epics - main's first, alt's second, not present third. The gear should go towards people that were in the raid (note people, not toons) first as well. If i'm in a raid with my mage and a BOE piece for my shaman drops, all the toons present in the raid can roll for it first. If they don't need it, then i'll roll for my shaman. With my guild, we'll have 2 or more 10-man raid ID's every week, and it's likely that both my mage and shaman will be participating each week. Gearing them up even if they aren't in the raid that night will still help the guild overall.
2. This is really only an issue if you raid every night. Otherwise, stick with your few nights of raiding, and do the easy, fun achievement things on the other days. Heck, if you're horribly stuck on something in Naxx and everyone's getting frustrated, organize guild runs through the old easy stuff to remind everyone that it's just a game and should be FUN.
3. My guild had a similar problem - we merged with another guild a few months back, and they weren't as well geared as we were. To get them geared up quickly, we always tried to make the runs half and half - half well geared, and half not so well geared. Sure, our progress slowed a little bit at first, but those not so well geared people got a ton of drops that otherwise would have been DE'd. In the end, it's like blizzard said - bring the person, not the toon. Raid with the people you enjoy raiding with, even if that makes you take a step backwards in progression for a week or two. It'll make things more fun for everyone.
sphere Nov 10th 2008 1:23PM
Judging from what I've read about DKs (beta forums and so on), the complexity of the class might make it harder to optimize DPS as quickly as GLs might hope.
I think even serious DKs will have to spend a lot of time honing their chops in 10-man Naxx and elsewhere before they can get their DPS up to snuff.
Aldheim Nov 10th 2008 1:23PM
Mildly offtopic: Seriously, why wasn't Arthas's catchphrase "Frostmourne Hungers?" That was his best gossip line in WC3. :-)
Nic Lake Nov 10th 2008 1:29PM
My guild (and a lot of other guilds I know) calculate DKP per account... i.e. when rolling my mage, I gather DKP that I can also use on my paladin, and vice versa. We're gonna do a hard reset once Wrath hits, maybe run a few old instances for kicks/achievements/alts/whatever, and gather some DKP there. Then, when the time comes to roll on those BoE's, if more than one person wants, it'll come down to a DKP bidding war. Want that for your alt's off-spec now? *evil gleam*
2) Most people want to raid regular stuff anyway... the old achievements are thrown together at all hours of the day, or if they were (sadly) left out of that night's raid. Shouldn't be too tough.
3) I guess this goes back to when the first people tried MC/Naxx/BWL/Sunwell, and so on... how do you know what works in what situation? Trial and error. Down the road a few months, this site or WoWWiki will have good templates for people to follow, but until then everyone is going to be trying things out, sharing in /trade (God, that's annoying), and (probably) dying a lot. That comes with the territory. Same thing happened, like you said, when Whorde got paladins and Alliance got shammys.
I personally won't be rolling a DK for a long time... gotta get my mains to 80, probably one other, and then I'll dabble a bit... server lag is going to be fierce anyway, so I'll take my sweet time.
Anye Nov 10th 2008 1:33PM
I'm not a guild leader/officer, but I would think BoE items should be dealt with in the same way that BoP items are dealt with... Only difference is, rather than dealing with BoE items mid-raid, deal with them in weekly auctions or something. This would be most easily accomplished in a guild with a DKP system. If you're a more casual guild where everyone present just rolls... Well, I'm not sure what to tell you. :P
actodd Nov 10th 2008 1:36PM
I don't think questions 2 & 3 will be issues for my guild. We've never had an attendance policy and we've always been able to fit folks who want to go into raids. The former prevented us from 25-man content, but we plan on sticking to 10-mans in Northrend. The latter made for some less than ideal group makeups, but was always fun and gave some good learning experiences.
I'm not sure how big a concern the loot question will be, but it is one we will definately discuss as we get closer to raiding. Our big demands on GV items have been materials more than products and I think that will continue. As for policies, we kept GV access seperate from raiding (or any other style of play). If you gave regularly to the guild, we'll give you what you ask for (within reason). If you haven't given, we may give you some of what you ask, but we'll expect you to donate what you can if you want more.
Mark Nov 10th 2008 1:47PM
The BOE situation was discussed in my guild, and we came to an easy solution.
If you NEED it, take it.
If you want it for an off-spec or an alt, ask and you'll probably get it if a main doesn't need it for a main spec
If no one needs it, it goes into the bank. From the bank, it'll be sold on the AH to keep the g bank full of gold for consumables and repairs.
Andy Nov 10th 2008 1:58PM
BoEs.
We have yet to actually discuss how to handle these. My first point of view on it would be this.
1. BoE are first open to people in the raid at the time of the drop.
2. A player may Need roll on said item if it is for his main spec. The player is to greed roll for an off spec.
3. If no one rolls on the item, the raids' loot caller will greed the item for distribution at the end of the raid.
4. At the end of the raid, the loot caller will roll on behalf of the guild bank twice. After the bank rolls, other interested players will roll on the item as well. You must have been in the raid for at least 3/4 of that days raid time to roll on the BoE items left over.
5. The first few BoE will probably be auctioned off by a guild officer in order to build guild funds.
achievements vs. Wrath raids
We will likely start official achievement raids after we have Nax on semi-farm status. At that point, we will probably do a monthly achievement raid (I like the term Legacy Raid myself) on the 2nd raid night.
Death Knight Factor
At this time, we have no players wanting to make a Death Knight their main. If one does, we will simply have to cross that bridge when we get to it. Our guild has a Mains before Alts policy when it comes to raids. As such, we try to avoid anyone declaring another as their main. In fact we have only allowed this to happen once.
This is my stance as one of the Senior Officers in my guild. This will of course have to be discussed and some of the specifics will have to be ironed out. Something we has already been discussed is:
"While we have main characters rolling ahead of alts, will we also have to specify main specs ahead of off specs; when the dual specing patch is implemented?"