Ask WoW Insider: Nodes and ninjas
by Mike Schramm 
Nov 17th 2008 at 4:00PM
This week's question for you, our readers, comes from an anonymous asker. He wants to know what the best option is for a widespread problem in this time of high realm populations and camped quests aplenty:There's been a lot of talk on your blog about people ninjaing spawns but I'm not entirely sure that it's as cut and dried as that. Consider this: I was in the Borean Tundra and had to kill the mob on the island that's up the top of the steps. when I arrived there were around 10 other 'toons all waiting around. I had no idea who was there first, who might be grouped, or anything else about them. The first thing I did was /s 'group?', at which point someone invited me, and I grouped with them. Second time it spawned one of us tagged it, I looted, disbanded the group and left. Did I ninja it? If so, how was I supposed to have acted? With new people coming all the time, no knowledge of who had been there longest and no visible queueing system I'm not sure how else to behave. Thoughts?
A little more analysis after the break, and don't forget to post your own answer in the comments below. If you've got a question for our readers, send it to ask@wow.com, and we'll ask it for you.
Previously on Ask WoW Insider...
This is one of the oldest problems in MMOs -- it's called "camping" when there are too many players and too few quest targets to go around, and back in the day, Everquest and other early MMOs turned camping into an art form -- people used to wait for hours to get a mob, and even then, once you "tagged" it, others could still steal it away. Blizzard has made progress on the issue with the "tagging" system, and the fact that they've built a mechanic that spawns mobs faster the more players there are in the area, but obviously it's still an issue in some cases.
The single best thing I've seen on the realms lately is the loot that drops for everyone to pick up -- sometimes, when you kill a quest mob, a clickable piece of loot drops that even people who didn't kill the mob can pick up. But obviously that can't always be how it's done, and thus, we get situations like the one above. What do you do then?
What's the fairest/easiest way to go about divvying up loot when there are people waiting for it? Personally, I'm kind of a fan of the "every many for himself" idea -- even though it leads to people AoEing a certain area to try and tag a mob and brings frustration to almost everyone, it at least presents a solid rule: first to hit the mob gets to keep it. If possible, I think Blizzard should always make the quest item lootable by as many people as possible, so we can all get on with our business instead of fighting with each other. But if they do want to make us work for an item, I'd rather it'd be first tag, first served -- at least then there's no confusion.
What do you think?
Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, WoW Insider Business, Virtual selves, Quests, Forums, Ask WoW Insider
Reader Comments (Page 1 of 7)
niko Nov 17th 2008 4:06PM
Grouping up has to be the BEST/EASIEST way to avoid aggravation with kill-stealing.
The more the word gets out there that grouping up saves everyone time and frustration, the better.
/invite FTW!!
Milkgas Nov 17th 2008 4:14PM
Grouping is good for single mob quests, but usually its better not to accept the invite with multiple quest targets, being the mob xp in group is almost nothing when you have 5.
Worcester Nov 17th 2008 4:36PM
This is assuming the group actually invites you. I was trying to get some mob quest done in Howling the other day, but the group of 3 or 4 just ignored me and continued to blast away at the quest mobs.
Arktic Nov 17th 2008 4:38PM
I agree, grouping is the easiest. And regardless of experience, I've found that if there are multiple mobs to kill, it's quicker to group with everyone in the area than to have to wait for the 5th spawn to get a kill. If I see someone in the area of a quest, I'll invite them and do my thing. If they are doing the same thing then it works out. If they were on a different quest, then 3-4 kills later we find out and leave group. There have been many groups that we'll group up, and absolutely nothing is said besides a "Thanks" after the quest objectives have been completed and right before we drop group.
yazah Nov 17th 2008 5:56PM
I think the most frusterating this is that it seems like I am the only one who ever offers to for a group. For example, my wife and I will be waiting for a mob to spawn, and someone else will come up and sit there ready to tag it, instead of asking for an invite.
Its just one of those things that would work so much better if people just worked together. Basically, what I am saying is that if your first reaction when you see a group of people waiting for a mob is to type "/s Invite?" you will complete the quest faster, and leave less of a waiting line for everyone else.
Plus, 2 people spamming /tar macros is better than one.
kabshiel Nov 17th 2008 7:13PM
I invited someone to a group today in order to do a named mob kill quest. He joined the group, left the group, and then proceeded to ninja the mob. Asking him why he did that, his responses were "I don't like grouping" and "You should learn to tag faster".
So there's you answer. These people are sociopaths and they don't care about what's best or easiest. They just don't play well with others. At least when you get mad about it, you can imagine them sitting friendless, unemployed, and alone.
darren Nov 17th 2008 4:10PM
I'd say you did it exactly right. Try to form a group, that way the most people complete the quest and reduce camping overall. In terms of ninjaing a mob, the respawn timers for quest mobs in WoW aren't really that long. If you get to a spot, look for a group. Because there's no way to know who was first, and no one queues, and most likely the tap will be stolen by someone anyway, I say it's fair game. In a group is better, but no matter what, look out for yourself - it's what the other 10 people are doing.
Beli Nov 17th 2008 4:12PM
I play a mage, and while it would be insanely easy for me to just AOE to tag a mob when it spawns, i have the common courtesy not to. At the same time, if there are 10 people waiting for a mob to spawn, you can bet if you try to wait your turn you'll be there for an hour or more (more people will show up and lets face it, not everyone waits their turn). If it's just one or two people, it's easier to let them go first.
For heavily camped mobs, i say free for all. Heck, I wish Blizzard could come up with a way to detect when a large number of players are camping a mob and instantly flag everyone when the mob spawns. Let you even kill those on your same side for this. In the end, the mob's dead, 9 people are dead, and you have a clear winner.
Hudders Nov 18th 2008 4:44AM
"I play a mage, and while it would be insanely easy for me to just AOE to tag a mob when it spawns, i have the common courtesy not to. "
Bravo.
Demgar Nov 18th 2008 7:59PM
As a hunter, I find that I can generally beat out any other campers. Mind you, I ALWAYS ask them if they want to group first, but if they refuse, or it's a horde:
Explosive trap on the spawn point.
+
Barrage on the spawn point
Pretty much always tags it for me. And with viper aspect I can keep barrage up indefinately. I haven't had to compete with a mage blizzard yet, would be curious to see if I win ;)
rosencratz Nov 18th 2008 5:36AM
Bravo indeed, however i play an affliction warlock. dots aren't great for tagging mobs sadly so i have ver little choice but to hellfire away with a pocket healer to keep me running. It's very effective and i feel very guilty but what can i do?
The alternative is willingly waiting around for hours on the off chance someone else doesn't turn up.
I always invite people but... well i think the term Ninja should be defined, not as the person who tags a mob before you personally but the person who's not willing to share when they have nothing to lose, on a named mob for example, that exists for no reason but for a single kill or a shared drop.
It's difficult times but it's only because it's currently so busy, i found Borean Tundra to be the worst for it, soooo many quests over there punish you for being in a group by giving non shared loot drops, quests to pick up stuff that despawns, etc. That place is the most "every man for himself" zone i've seen, glad i've got it over with so i don't need to return.
Riftsrunner Nov 18th 2008 12:55PM
I get to be on the other end of the tag spectrum as a Rogue. I do my best damage coming out of stealth, but I find I have to stay in the seeing world if I want to tag mobs. I have had mobs pulled out from out from under me just because I happened to be stealthed (I hate the warrior charge when I am just about to ambush or cheap shot and not only do I not get the mob, sometimes I can feint out of it, but more often than not I get to kill "their" mob as well). I also feel that at level 70 I should have normal move speed, I am so sick of having my speed cut stalking a mob in stealth.
kwyncy Nov 18th 2008 2:15PM
Whaaan! Sniffle! I can't have instant gratification!
If it's too busy, over camped, ect, go do something else for a minute and come back.
Grind rep, work on a skill, OMG! get up and take a break from playing and interact with humans without a keyboard!
Nooches!
Metal Geario 360 Nov 17th 2008 4:16PM
Yep group up, if possible, and its always courteous to say something (quick or at all) b4 disbanding. ;)
It goes a long way.
Can O Beans Nov 17th 2008 4:18PM
I was waiting for a mob to spawn in a cave in Borean Tundra. There were people waiting, so I asked for a group. They were full. Cool, I'll wait.
The group that didn't get to tag the mob on the next spawn got very belligerent and abusive toward me, telling me to get lost, GTFO, etc, even though I hadn't even raised a finger to tag it.
Well, never poke a sleeping troll. I spent the next half hour tagging that mob and flaming those jerks.
How about, you get your named mob when you can, and don't be a jerk about it? It's not "your" mob because you were waiting for it. First come, first serve is BS when you can't tell who's been there. If this particular group had been polite, they would have completed their quest in due course, but their sense of entitlement forced me to grief them.
Lemons Nov 17th 2008 4:51PM
I find it funny how you were able to tag the same mob over and over again against a group of people.
You must be a mage with a very good internet connection.
jurandr Nov 17th 2008 5:08PM
@Lemons
/target nameofmob
/cast ice lance
I find that the mob exists in the game about half a second before it is actually visible, and the target macro let's you grab it before anybody else can even see it. Cruel, yes, but also effective.
wyss.john Nov 17th 2008 4:18PM
I would love it if everyone got flagged.... it would certainly make those squishy mages think twice before they AOE
Landryjones Nov 17th 2008 4:49PM
I think the mechanic that Blizz used on the IOQD daily where you had to flag the corpse was pretty good. I suppose the quest loses some of its allure if you don't have to kill the mob yourself, but this mechanic allowed more people access to quest progresssion.
Doz Nov 17th 2008 4:18PM
*If you haven't seen the Death Knight questline I'd skip this post.
Couldn't Blizz give credit for these mobs like they do for Patchwerk or whatever in the last ebon hold quest? You only need to "help" kill him, no grouping or tagging necessary. Perhaps this is some sort of experiment for future implementation. Some might still lose out if the mob dies too quickly but it'd still help and not be much of a change to the system.